The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

TRIPS ABOUT ROME​

132:7.1 Jesus, Gonod, and Ganid made five trips away from Rome to points of interest in the surrounding territory. On their visit to the northern Italian lakes Jesus had the long talk with Ganid concerning the impossibility of teaching a man about God if the man does not desire to know God. They had casually met a thoughtless pagan while on their journey up to the lakes, and Ganid was surprised that Jesus did not follow out his usual practice of enlisting the man in conversation which would naturally lead up to the discussion of spiritual questions. When Ganid asked his teacher why he evinced so little interest in this pagan, Jesus answered:

132:7.2 “Ganid, the man was not hungry for truth. He was not dissatisfied with himself. He was not ready to ask for help, and the eyes of his mind were not open to receive light for the soul. That man was not ripe for the harvest of salvation; he must be allowed more time for the trials and difficulties of life to prepare him for the reception of wisdom and higher learning. Or, if we could have him live with us, we might by our lives show him the Father in heaven, and thus would he become so attracted by our lives as sons of God that he would be constrained to inquire about our Father. You cannot reveal God to those who do not seek for him; you cannot lead unwilling souls into the joys of salvation. Man must become hungry for truth as a result of the experiences of living, or he must desire to know God as the result of contact with the lives of those who are acquainted with the divine Father before another human being can act as the means of leading such a fellow mortal to the Father in heaven. If we know God, our real business on earth is so to live as to permit the Father to reveal himself in our lives, and thus will all God-seeking persons see the Father and ask for our help in finding out more about the God who in this manner finds expression in our lives.”.......cont>

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1384#U132_7_0




Caino

There is something about 'timing' which is interesting, - spiritual receptivity, true yearning, real desire,...which must coordinate with the soul's rhythm and divine inspiration.


pj

 

[freelight]

Enlightenment can be yours........

Enlightenment can be yours........

Remember Pogo's famous line? atrol:

Indeed, " we have met the enemy and he is us". "We are our own worse enemy" could also apply - with this in mind, it might be more wise to pluck the weeds from our own garden, conquer the false-concepts and idols of truth in our own minds, before attacking an assumed outside 'enemy', which might only be a 'threat' to our own imagine or concept of 'God'.

Anyone is free to read the UB, check its principles, study its ethics, values and meanings, which it relates well, holding its own integrity. The cosmogony/cosmology of the revelation is particularly interesting to me, its explanation of God, the universe, Deity-relations, angelic orders, the exquisite order, structure and harmony of the cosmos, and more. Its just information, - given for a wholly worthy purpose, to enlighten, inspire and raise the consciousness of man to his divine origins and destiny. Enlightening yourself can be the most wonderful gift. I think its peculiar how some seem to resist this.


pj

 

[Lost Comet]

Indeed, " we have met the enemy and he is us". "We are our own worse enemy" could also apply - with this in mind, it might be more wise to pluck the weeds from our own garden, conquer the false-concepts and idols of truth in our own minds, before attacking an assumed outside 'enemy', which might only be a 'threat' to our own imagine or concept of 'God'.

Anyone is free to read the UB, check its principles, study its ethics, values and meanings, which it relates well, holding its own integrity. The cosmogony/cosmology of the revelation is particularly interesting to me, its explanation of God, the universe, Deity-relations, angelic orders, the exquisite order, structure and harmony of the cosmos, and more. Its just information, - given for a wholly worthy purpose, to enlighten, inspire and raise the consciousness of man to his divine origins and destiny. Enlightening yourself can be the most wonderful gift. I think its peculiar how some seem to resist this.


pj

I think it is more than a little peculiar that people resist exploring new realms of thought. It's just not atheists who are like proverbial drunk looking for lost house keys under a lamppost because the light is better there than where he lost them.

Do you think it might be a lack of imagination? “Imagination,” wrote Albert Einstein, “is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” Or are they simply afraid of stepping outside their pre-established structures?

 

[freelight]

inspired creativity............

inspired creativity............

I think it is more than a little peculiar that people resist exploring new realms of thought. It's just not atheists who are like proverbial drunk looking for lost house keys under a lamppost because the light is better there than where he lost them.

Do you think it might be a lack of imagination? “Imagination,” wrote Albert Einstein, “is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” Or are they simply afraid of stepping outside their pre-established structures?

Imagination is a 'key' I think that opens one's creative vision or receptivity to the Spirit-world, the dimensions beyond...since it facilitates creation wherein inspiration flows or expands one's awareness. What is 'God' but the very source of imagination and all its potentials.

In divine Love there is no fear,...no division, no difference, no duality. - the religious ego assumes an 'either/or' mentality of division, God/Devil, good/evil, light/darkness, so it shoots down what it believes to be God's enemies, but 'The All' can have no real enemies, since 'The All' is all there is...there is not a second or opposing power where there is only One.

A student of truth is always open, vigilant, researching and investigating.

Those at Home in 'God', have no fear whatsoever, neither are there any 'real' enemies of 'God'. 'God' is One without a second. 'God' is absolute reality itself....wherein no lie or untruth has any power, for only One Presence forever prevails, ultimately. The play of creation and this individual adventure as a progressing soul in the realm of duality, is charted well by the UB, for all souls may join with God and by choosing life (his divine will) may prosper and have eternal life, fusing with that divine spirit within (the Thought Adjuster)...becoming truly immortal, at which point one can never ever die, but lives forever in the service of God. This is the goodnews the UB proclaims, the great and eternal plan of the Universal Father....for all his universe children.


pj

 

[bucksplasher]

Imagine
dark=light
truth=lie
death=life

There you have Urantra.

tWINs

 

[Aimiel]

Imagine
dark=light
truth=lie
death=life

There you have Urantra.

tWINs

So true.

 

[Caino]

Imagine
dark=light
truth=lie
death=life

There you have Urantra.

tWINs

institutional pride of the Sanhedrin
inherited by the Roman Catholic Church

pride is hurt again
by Jesus just the same

swats at gnats
swallows camels

a proud heart
sealed again

they hated him
without a cause.

Catholic

 

[Aimiel]

The catholic church isn't from God, it was designed by men. God has a Body of believers who love and honor Him, alone. The Urantia Revelation is well described as being 'late' by the title of this thread: because it IS indeed dead. :rotfl:

 

[Lost Comet]

Aimiel and bucksplasher sound terrified of anything that seems to pose a threat to their pre-established structures.

Kinda like the people who flew airplanes into a couple of towers.

 

[freelight]

The enhancing value of the UB

The enhancing value of the UB

Imagine
dark=light
truth=lie
death=life

There you have Urantia.(corrected spelling)

tWINs

Your 'equations' above do not apply to the UB...unless you can provide specific examples beyond a general assumption based on religious bias and/or ignorance, or a good mix thereof.

The UB stands for light, truth, and life,....in fact the 3 main principles it heralds are 'truth, beauty and goodness'. It glorifies God and unfolds a wonderful plan of eternal progress and universe-purpose for all God's children, teaching only the highest values and principles.

~*~*~

Again, I recommend these articles for conservative Christians by Dr. Meredith J. Sprunger -

Intro. to the UB for conservative Christians

UB deviations from traditional Christian doctrine

Meredith J Sprunger Archive (great articles bridging the Christian community within the greater context of a UB perspective and theology)

It is much wiser to first know what you are criticizing to see if your viewpoint is valid, informed and reasonable, instead of it being otherwise.


pj

 

[bucksplasher]

Your 'equations' above do not apply to the UB...unless you can provide specific examples beyond a general assumption based on religious bias and/or ignorance, or a good mix thereof.

The UB stands for light, truth, and life,....in fact the 3 main principles it heralds are 'truth, beauty and goodness'. It glorifies God and unfolds a wonderful plan of eternal progress and universe-purpose for all God's children, teaching only the highest values and principles.

~*~*~

Again, I recommend these articles for conservative Christians by Dr. Meredith J. Sprunger -

Intro. to the UB for conservative Christians

UB deviations from traditional Christian doctrine

Meredith J Sprunger Archive (great articles bridging the Christian community within the greater context of a UB perspective and theology)

It is much wiser to first know what you are criticizing to see if your viewpoint is valid, informed and reasonable, instead of it being otherwise.


pj

"In divine Love there is no fear,...no division, no difference, no duality. - the religious ego assumes an 'either/or' mentality of division, God/Devil, good/evil, light/darkness, so it shoots down what it believes to be God's enemies, but 'The All' can have no real enemies, since 'The All' is all there is...there is not a second or opposing power where there is only One. "

I was only going by the quote from you above. I thought it said that "God can have no enemies".

I was under the impression that God has the "fallen angels" as enemies.

I was under the impression that God has "darkness" as a enemy?

Any way if "all" is One then I stand corrected.

God is the uncaused beginning from which "everything" came but He is not the author of evil. Evil was allowed, not created. For example God allows Urantia to claim equality with the Bible when I'm sure statements within both contradict one the other.

I'll side with the Bible and not secret testimony to one of the Apostles.

tWINs

 

[freelight]

always more to learn......

always more to learn......

"In divine Love there is no fear,...no division, no difference, no duality. - the religious ego assumes an 'either/or' mentality of division, God/Devil, good/evil, light/darkness, so it shoots down what it believes to be God's enemies, but 'The All' can have no real enemies, since 'The All' is all there is...there is not a second or opposing power where there is only One. "

I was only going by the quote from you above. I thought it said that "God can have no enemies".

I was under the impression that God has the "fallen angels" as enemies.

I was under the impression that God has "darkness" as a enemy?

Any way if "all" is One then I stand corrected.

I was speaking above from the context and view of non-duality, where there is only the allness and omnipresence of 'God'. What is 'omnipresent' is everywhere present, nowhere absent. Consider the allness of God. All means 'all'. This Allness is One.

How can that which is the Only Power and Presence Existing, have an opposite or an enemy? There is only God. God is all there is. All is Consciousness. All is Being. What makes all that is actual and potential (this includes our concepts of 'good' or 'evil')....is 'God'. 'God' is prior to and transcends any denomination of 'good' or 'evil', being the non-dual Reality that is the ground or substrate of everything that appears....since nothing can 'be' without God. We've touched on the issue of 'theodicy' elsewhere which can be tackled at many 'angles'.

God is the uncaused beginning from which "everything" came but He is not the author of evil. Evil was allowed, not created. For example God allows Urantia to claim equality with the Bible when I'm sure statements within both contradict one the other.

I have never anywhere claimed or assumed that 'God' is the author or direct cause of 'evil'. However, 'God' has allowed such potential for evil to exist within the grand scheme of the phenomenal universe. This is adequately explained in my post-link on 'theodicy' above, from a UB perspective.

My sharings of a more pure non-dual nature of things can be accessed freely in my Non-duality thread, which treats existence from a slightly difference view, from that ground of Being that is prior to and transcends all duality whatsoever (such is the school of Advaita Vedanta). The UB however is a wonderful tome describing particularly the "relationships" within the universe, with God, the Godhead and all other beings, the whole cosmic inter-play of beings and things 'relating'. - such 'knowledge' can only enhance, illumine and inspire all religionists.

I'll side with the Bible and not secret testimony to one of the Apostles.

Thats an easy fall back plan or convenient 'resort' if it comforts your ego. This in nowise diminishes the knowledge and contributions given in the UB.


pj

 

[freelight]

The catholic church isn't from God, it was designed by men.

Just like other organizations or denominations,....all designed by men. God can work thru men, after all....what other channels does He have?

God has a Body of believers who love and honor Him, alone.

Yes, a spiritual community of Spirit-born and awakened souls. Such souls may belong to any number of denominations or even religious traditions. Isn't that wonderful?

The Urantia Revelation is well described as being 'late' by the title of this thread: because it IS indeed dead.

'Late' only indicates that its a more modern day revelation given in the early/mid 20th century...thats all. Ancient writings or records dont always gaurantee authenticity or even usefulness, but in the continuum of time....progressive revelation continues to unfold. Therefore revelations of 'epochal' significance naturally bear their import for our current time.


pj

 

[Caino]

GOOD AND EVIL​

132:2.1 Mardus was the acknowledged leader of the Cynics of Rome, and he became a great friend of the scribe of Damascus. Day after day he conversed with Jesus, and night upon night he listened to his supernal teaching. Among the more important discussions with Mardus was the one designed to answer this sincere Cynic’s question about good and evil. In substance, and in twentieth-century phraseology, Jesus said:

132:2.2 My brother, good and evil are merely words symbolizing relative levels of human comprehension of the observable universe. If you are ethically lazy and socially indifferent, you can take as your standard of good the current social usages. If you are spiritually indolent and morally unprogressive, you may take as your standards of good the religious practices and traditions of your contemporaries. But the soul that survives time and emerges into eternity must make a living and personal choice between good and evil as they are determined by the true values of the spiritual standards established by the divine spirit which the Father in heaven has sent to dwell within the heart of man. This indwelling spirit is the standard of personality survival.

132:2.3 Goodness, like truth, is always relative and unfailingly evil-contrasted. It is the perception of these qualities of goodness and truth that enables the evolving souls of men to make those personal decisions of choice which are essential to eternal survival.

132:2.4 The spiritually blind individual who logically follows scientific dictation, social usage, and religious dogma stands in grave danger of sacrificing his moral freedom and losing his spiritual liberty. Such a soul is destined to become an intellectual parrot, a social automaton, and a slave to religious authority.

132:2.5 Goodness is always growing toward new levels of the increasing liberty of moral self-realization and spiritual personality attainment—the discovery of, and identification with, the indwelling Adjuster. An experience is good when it heightens the appreciation of beauty, augments the moral will, enhances the discernment of truth, enlarges the capacity to love and serve one’s fellows, exalts the spiritual ideals, and unifies the supreme human motives of time with the eternal plans of the indwelling Adjuster, all of which lead directly to an increased desire to do the Father’s will, thereby fostering the divine passion to find God and to be more like him.

132:2.6 As you ascend the universe scale of creature development, you will find increasing goodness and diminishing evil in perfect accordance with your capacity for goodness-experience and truth-discernment. The ability to entertain error or experience evil will not be fully lost until the ascending human soul achieves final spirit levels.

132:2.7 Goodness is living, relative, always progressing, invariably a personal experience, and everlastingly correlated with the discernment of truth and beauty. Goodness is found in the recognition of the positive truth-values of the spiritual level, which must, in human experience, be contrasted with the negative counterpart—the shadows of potential evil.

132:2.8 Until you attain Paradise levels, goodness will always be more of a quest than a possession, more of a goal than an experience of attainment. But even as you hunger and thirst for righteousness, you experience increasing satisfaction in the partial attainment of goodness. The presence of goodness and evil in the world is in itself positive proof of the existence and reality of man’s moral will, the personality, which thus identifies these values and is also able to choose between them.

132:2.9 By the time of the attainment of Paradise the ascending mortal’s capacity for identifying the self with true spirit values has become so enlarged as to result in the attainment of the perfection of the possession of the light of life. Such a perfected spirit personality becomes so wholly, divinely, and spiritually unified with the positive and supreme qualities of goodness, beauty, and truth that there remains no possibility that such a righteous spirit would cast any negative shadow of potential evil when exposed to the searching luminosity of the divine light of the infinite Rulers of Paradise. In all such spirit personalities, goodness is no longer partial, contrastive, and comparative; it has become divinely complete and spiritually replete; it approaches the purity and perfection of the Supreme.

132:2.10 The possibility of evil is necessary to moral choosing, but not the actuality thereof. A shadow is only relatively real. Actual evil is not necessary as a personal experience. Potential evil acts equally well as a decision stimulus in the realms of moral progress on the lower levels of spiritual development. Evil becomes a reality of personal experience only when a moral mind makes evil its choice.


Caino

 

[Caino]

5. THE WISDOM OF DELAY​

54:5.1 Of the many reasons known to me as to why Lucifer and his confederates were not sooner interned or adjudicated, I am permitted to recite the following:

54:5.2 1. Mercy requires that every wrongdoer have sufficient time in which to formulate a deliberate and fully chosen attitude regarding his evil thoughts and sinful acts.

54:5.3 2. Supreme justice is dominated by a Father’s love; therefore will justice never destroy that which mercy can save. Time to accept salvation is vouchsafed every evildoer.

54:5.4 3. No affectionate father is ever precipitate in visiting punishment upon an erring member of his family. Patience cannot function independently of time.

54:5.5 4. While wrongdoing is always deleterious to a family, wisdom and love admonish the upright children to bear with an erring brother during the time granted by the affectionate father in which the sinner may see the error of his way and embrace salvation.

54:5.6 5. Regardless of Michael’s attitude toward Lucifer, notwithstanding his being Lucifer’s Creator-father, it was not in the province of the Creator Son to exercise summary jurisdiction over the apostate System Sovereign because he had not then completed his bestowal career, thereby attaining unqualified sovereignty of Nebadon.

54:5.7 6. The Ancients of Days could have immediately annihilated these rebels, but they seldom execute wrongdoers without a full hearing. In this instance they refused to overrule the Michael decisions.

54:5.8 7. It is evident that Immanuel counseled Michael to remain aloof from the rebels and allow rebellion to pursue a natural course of self-obliteration. And the wisdom of the Union of Days is the time reflection of the united wisdom of the Paradise Trinity.

54:5.9 8. The Faithful of Days on Edentia advised the Constellation Fathers to allow the rebels free course to the end that all sympathy for these evildoers should be the sooner uprooted in the hearts of every present and future citizen of Norlatiadek—every mortal, morontia, or spirit creature.

54:5.10 9. On Jerusem the personal representative of the Supreme Executive of Orvonton counseled Gabriel to foster full opportunity for every living creature to mature a deliberate choice in those matters involved in the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The issues of rebellion having been raised, the Paradise emergency adviser of Gabriel portrayed that, if such full and free opportunity were not given all Norlatiadek creatures, then would the Paradise quarantine against all such possible halfhearted or doubt-stricken creatures be extended in self-protection against the entire constellation. To keep open the Paradise doors of ascension to the beings of Norlatiadek, it was necessary to provide for the full development of rebellion and to insure the complete determination of attitude on the part of all beings in any way concerned therewith.

54:5.11 10. The Divine Minister of Salvington issued as her third independent proclamation a mandate directing that nothing be done to half cure, cowardly suppress, or otherwise hide the hideous visage of rebels and rebellion. The angelic hosts were directed to work for full disclosure and unlimited opportunity for sin-expression as the quickest technique of achieving the perfect and final cure of the plague of evil and sin.

54:5.12 11. An emergency council of ex-mortals consisting of Mighty Messengers, glorified mortals who had had personal experience with like situations, together with their colleagues, was organized on Jerusem. They advised Gabriel that at least three times the number of beings would be led astray if arbitrary or summary methods of suppression were attempted. The entire Uversa corps of counselors concurred in advising Gabriel to permit the rebellion to take its full and natural course, even if it should require a million years to wind up the consequences.

54:5.13 12. Time, even in a universe of time, is relative: If a Urantia mortal of average length of life should commit a crime which precipitated world-wide pandemonium, and if he were apprehended, tried, and executed within two or three days of the commission of the crime, would it seem a long time to you? And yet that would be nearer a comparison with the length of Lucifer’s life even if his adjudication, now begun, should not be completed for a hundred thousand Urantia years. The relative lapse of time from the viewpoint of Uversa, where the litigation is pending, could be indicated by saying that the crime of Lucifer was being brought to trial within two and a half seconds of its commission. From the Paradise viewpoint the adjudication is simultaneous with the enactment.

54:5.14 There are an equal number of reasons for not arbitrarily stopping the Lucifer rebellion which would be partially comprehensible to you, but which I am not permitted to narrate. I may inform you that on Uversa we teach forty-eight reasons for permitting evil to run the full course of its own moral bankruptcy and spiritual extinction. I doubt not that there are just as many additional reasons not known to me.


Caino

 

[bucksplasher]

One reason for allowing "evil" and that is love.

If you truly love someone you have to have them "freely" and of their own self determination. Michael, Mary and all other Saints come to mind. Upon saying yes to God, you attempt to say no to all evil. On the other hand a refusal of God's love leads to separation.

I wonder what the "48" known reasons for UA's god's evil are?

tWINs

 

[Caino]

"The moral will creatures of the evolutionary worlds are always bothered with the unthinking question as to why the all-wise Creators permit evil and sin. They fail to comprehend that both are inevitable if the creature is to be truly free. The free will of evolving man or exquisite angel is not a mere philosophic concept, a symbolic ideal. Man’s ability to choose good or evil is a universe reality. This liberty to choose for oneself is an endowment of the Supreme Rulers, and they will not permit any being or group of beings to deprive a single personality in the wide universe of this divinely bestowed liberty — not even to satisfy such misguided and ignorant beings in the enjoyment of this misnamed personal liberty."


Caino

 

[bucksplasher]

"The moral will creatures of the evolutionary worlds are always bothered with the unthinking question as to why the all-wise Creators permit evil and sin. They fail to comprehend that both are inevitable if the creature is to be truly free. The free will of evolving man or exquisite angel is not a mere philosophic concept, a symbolic ideal. Man’s ability to choose good or evil is a universe reality. This liberty to choose for oneself is an endowment of the Supreme Rulers, and they will not permit any being or group of beings to deprive a single personality in the wide universe of this divinely bestowed liberty — not even to satisfy such misguided and ignorant beings in the enjoyment of this misnamed personal liberty."


Caino

Do we know the "48" reasons or not? tWINs

 

[Caino]

Do we know the "48" reasons or not? tWINs

I don't understand the question, what is "UA"? What does "god's evil" (possessive tense mean)?


Caino

 

[bucksplasher]

54:5.14 There are an equal number of reasons for not arbitrarily stopping the Lucifer rebellion which would be partially comprehensible to you, but which I am not permitted to narrate. I may inform you that on Uversa we teach forty-eight reasons for permitting evil to run the full course of its own moral bankruptcy and spiritual extinction. I doubt not that there are just as many additional reasons not known to me.

"we teach forty-eight reasons for permitting evil to run the full course of its own moral bankruptcy and spiritual extinction"

tWINs