The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[Caino]

Good post Bucksplasher, i have always admired your spiritual mind and ability to discern and collate "truth".

THE FUTURE​

195:10.1 Christianity has indeed done a great service for this world, but what is now most needed is Jesus. The world needs to see Jesus living again on earth in the experience of spirit-born mortals who effectively reveal the Master to all men. It is futile to talk about a revival of primitive Christianity; you must go forward from where you find yourselves. Modern culture must become spiritually baptized with a new revelation of Jesus' life and illuminated with a new understanding of his gospel of eternal salvation. And when Jesus becomes thus lifted up, he will draw all men to himself. Jesus' disciples should be more than conquerors, even overflowing sources of inspiration and enhanced living to all men. Religion is only an exalted humanism until it is made divine by the discovery of the reality of the presence of God in personal experience.

195:10.2 The beauty and sublimity, the humanity and divinity, the simplicity and uniqueness, of Jesus' life on earth present such a striking and appealing picture of man-saving and God-revealing that the theologians and philosophers of all time should be effectively restrained from daring to form creeds or create theological systems of spiritual bondage out of such a transcendental bestowal of God in the form of man. In Jesus the universe produced a mortal man in whom the spirit of love triumphed over the material handicaps of time and overcame the fact of physical origin.

195:10.3 Ever bear in mind—God and men need each other. They are mutually necessary to the full and final attainment of eternal personality experience in the divine destiny of universe finality.

195:10.4 "The kingdom of God is within you" was probably the greatest pronouncement Jesus ever made, next to the declaration that his Father is a living and loving spirit.

195:10.5 In winning souls for the Master, it is not the first mile of compulsion, duty, or convention that will transform man and his world, but rather the second mile of free service and liberty-loving devotion that betokens the Jesusonian reaching forth to grasp his brother in love and sweep him on under spiritual guidance toward the higher and divine goal of mortal existence. Christianity even now willingly goes the first mile, but mankind languishes and stumbles along in moral darkness because there are so few genuine second-milers—so few professed followers of Jesus who really live and love as he taught his disciples to live and love and serve.

195:10.6 The call to the adventure of building a new and transformed human society by means of the spiritual rebirth of Jesus' brotherhood of the kingdom should thrill all who believe in him as men have not been stirred since the days when they walked about on earth as his companions in the flesh.

195:10.7 No social system or political regime which denies the reality of God can contribute in any constructive and lasting manner to the advancement of human civilization. But Christianity, as it is subdivided and secularized today, presents the greatest single obstacle to its further advancement; especially is this true concerning the Orient.

195:10.8 Ecclesiasticism is at once and forever incompatible with that living faith, growing spirit, and firsthand experience of the faith-comrades of Jesus in the brotherhood of man in the spiritual association of the kingdom of heaven. The praiseworthy desire to preserve traditions of past achievement often leads to the defense of outgrown systems of worship. The well-meant desire to foster ancient thought systems effectually prevents the sponsoring of new and adequate means and methods designed to satisfy the spiritual longings of the expanding and advancing minds of modern men. Likewise, the Christian churches of the twentieth century stand as great, but wholly unconscious, obstacles to the immediate advance of the real gospel—the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.

195:10.9 Many earnest persons who would gladly yield loyalty to the Christ of the gospel find it very difficult enthusiastically to support a church which exhibits so little of the spirit of his life and teachings, and which they have been erroneously taught he founded. Jesus did not found the so-called Christian church, but he has, in every manner consistent with his nature, fostered it as the best existent exponent of his lifework on earth.

195:10.1 If the Christian church would only dare to espouse the Master's program, thousands of apparently indifferent youths would rush forward to enlist in such a spiritual undertaking, and they would not hesitate to go all the way through with this great adventure.

195:10.1 Christianity is seriously confronted with the doom embodied in one of its own slogans: "A house divided against itself cannot stand." The non-Christian world will hardly capitulate to a sect-divided Christendom. The living Jesus is the only hope of a possible unification of Christianity. The true church—the Jesus brotherhood—is invisible, spiritual, and is characterized by unity, not necessarily by uniformity. Uniformity is the earmark of the physical world of mechanistic nature. Spiritual unity is the fruit of faith union with the living Jesus. The visible church should refuse longer to handicap the progress of the invisible and spiritual brotherhood of the kingdom of God. And this brotherhood is destined to become a living organism in contrast to an institutionalized social organization. It may well utilize such social organizations, but it must not be supplanted by them.

195:10.1 But the Christianity of even the twentieth century must not be despised. It is the product of the combined moral genius of the God-knowing men of many races during many ages, and it has truly been one of the greatest powers for good on earth, and therefore no man should lightly regard it, notwithstanding its inherent and acquired defects. Christianity still contrives to move the minds of reflective men with mighty moral emotions.

195:10.1 But there is no excuse for the involvement of the church in commerce and politics; such unholy alliances are a flagrant betrayal of the Master. And the genuine lovers of truth will be slow to forget that this powerful institutionalized church has often dared to smother newborn faith and persecute truth bearers who chanced to appear in unorthodox raiment.

195:10.1 It is all too true that such a church would not have survived unless there had been men in the world who preferred such a style of worship. Many spiritually indolent souls crave an ancient and authoritative religion of ritual and sacred traditions. Human evolution and spiritual progress are hardly sufficient to enable all men to dispense with religious authority. And the invisible brotherhood of the kingdom may well include these family groups of various social and temperamental classes if they are only willing to become truly spirit-led sons of God. But in this brotherhood of Jesus there is no place for sectarian rivalry, group bitterness, nor assertions of moral superiority and spiritual infallibility.

195:10.1 These various groupings of Christians may serve to accommodate numerous different types of would-be believers among the various peoples of Western civilization, but such division of Christendom presents a grave weakness when it attempts to carry the gospel of Jesus to Oriental peoples. These races do not yet understand that there is a religion of Jesus separate, and somewhat apart, from Christianity, which has more and more become a religion about Jesus.

195:10.1 The great hope of Urantia lies in the possibility of a new revelation of Jesus with a new and enlarged presentation of his saving message which would spiritually unite in loving service the numerous families of his present-day professed followers.

195:10.1 Even secular education could help in this great spiritual renaissance if it would pay more attention to the work of teaching youth how to engage in life planning and character progression. The purpose of all education should be to foster and further the supreme purpose of life, the development of a majestic and well-balanced personality. There is great need for the teaching of moral discipline in the place of so much self-gratification. Upon such a foundation religion may contribute its spiritual incentive to the enlargement and enrichment of mortal life, even to the security and enhancement of life eternal.

195:10.1 Christianity is an extemporized religion, and therefore must it operate in low gear. High-gear spiritual performances must await the new revelation and the more general acceptance of the real religion of Jesus. But Christianity is a mighty religion, seeing that the commonplace disciples of a crucified carpenter set in motion those teachings which conquered the Roman world in three hundred years and then went on to triumph over the barbarians who overthrew Rome. This same Christianity conquered—absorbed and exalted—the whole stream of Hebrew theology and Greek philosophy. And then, when this Christian religion became comatose for more than a thousand years as a result of an overdose of mysteries and paganism, it resurrected itself and virtually reconquered the whole Western world. Christianity contains enough of Jesus' teachings to immortalize it.

195:10.1 If Christianity could only grasp more of Jesus' teachings, it could do so much more in helping modern man to solve his new and increasingly complex problems.

195:10.2 Christianity suffers under a great handicap because it has become identified in the minds of all the world as a part of the social system, the industrial life, and the moral standards of Western civilization; and thus has Christianity unwittingly seemed to sponsor a society which staggers under the guilt of tolerating science without idealism, politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without restraint, knowledge without character, power without conscience, and industry without morality.

195:10.2 The hope of modern Christianity is that it should cease to sponsor the social systems and industrial policies of Western civilization while it humbly bows itself before the cross it so valiantly extols, there to learn anew from Jesus of Nazareth the greatest truths mortal man can ever hear—the living gospel of the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.




Caino

 

[Caino]

At 17 years of age Jesus faced his first great socio-political dilemma. The result was a lingering division of sentiment in Nazareth towards Jesus which remained for the rest of his life.

THE SEVENTEENTH YEAR (A.D. 11)​

127:2.1 At about this time there was considerable agitation, especially at Jerusalem and in Judea, in favor of rebellion against the payment of taxes to Rome. There was coming into existence a strong nationalist party, presently to be called the Zealots. The Zealots, unlike the Pharisees, were not willing to await the coming of the Messiah. They proposed to bring things to a head through political revolt.

127:2.2 A group of organizers from Jerusalem arrived in Galilee and were making good headway until they reached Nazareth. When they came to see Jesus, he listened carefully to them and asked many questions but refused to join the party. He declined fully to disclose his reasons for not enlisting, and his refusal had the effect of keeping out many of his youthful fellows in Nazareth.

127:2.3 Mary did her best to induce him to enlist, but she could not budge him. She went so far as to intimate that his refusal to espouse the nationalist cause at her behest was insubordination, a violation of his pledge made upon their return from Jerusalem that he would be subject to his parents; but in answer to this insinuation he only laid a kindly hand on her shoulder and, looking into her face, said: "My mother, how could you?" And Mary withdrew her statement.

127:2.4 One of Jesus' uncles (Mary's brother Simon) had already joined this group, subsequently becoming an officer in the Galilean division. And for several years there was something of an estrangement between Jesus and his uncle.

127:2.5 But trouble began to brew in Nazareth. Jesus' attitude in these matters had resulted in creating a division among the Jewish youths of the city. About half had joined the nationalist organization, and the other half began the formation of an opposing group of more moderate patriots, expecting Jesus to assume the leadership. They were amazed when he refused the honor offered him, pleading as an excuse his heavy family responsibilities, which they all allowed. But the situation was still further complicated when, presently, a wealthy Jew, Isaac, a moneylender to the gentiles, came forward agreeing to support Jesus' family if he would lay down his tools and assume leadership of these Nazareth patriots.

127:2.6 Jesus, then scarcely seventeen years of age, was confronted with one of the most delicate and difficult situations of his early life. Patriotic issues, especially when complicated by tax-gathering foreign oppressors, are always difficult for spiritual leaders to relate themselves to, and it was doubly so in this case since the Jewish religion was involved in all this agitation against Rome.

127:2.7 Jesus' position was made more difficult because his mother and uncle, and even his younger brother James, all urged him to join the nationalist cause. All the better Jews of Nazareth had enlisted, and those young men who had not joined the movement would all enlist the moment Jesus changed his mind. He had but one wise counselor in all Nazareth, his old teacher, the chazan, who counseled him about his reply to the citizens' committee of Nazareth when they came to ask for his answer to the public appeal which had been made. In all Jesus' young life this was the very first time he had consciously resorted to public strategy. Theretofore, always had he depended upon a frank statement of truth to clarify the situation, but now he could not declare the full truth. He could not intimate that he was more than a man; he could not disclose his idea of the mission which awaited his attainment of a riper manhood. Despite these limitations his religious fealty and national loyalty were directly challenged. His family was in a turmoil, his youthful friends in division, and the entire Jewish contingent of the town in a hubbub. And to think that he was to blame for it all! And how innocent he had been of all intention to make trouble of any kind, much less a disturbance of this sort.

127:2.8 Something had to be done. He must state his position, and this he did bravely and diplomatically to the satisfaction of many, but not all. He adhered to the terms of his original plea, maintaining that his first duty was to his family, that a widowed mother and eight brothers and sisters needed something more than mere money could buy—the physical necessities of life—that they were entitled to a father's watchcare and guidance, and that he could not in clear conscience release himself from the obligation which a cruel accident had thrust upon him. He paid compliment to his mother and eldest brother for being willing to release him but reiterated that loyalty to a dead father forbade his leaving the family no matter how much money was forthcoming for their material support, making his never-to-be-forgotten statement that "money cannot love." In the course of this address Jesus made several veiled references to his "life mission" but explained that, regardless of whether or not it might be inconsistent with the military idea, it, along with everything else in his life, had been given up in order that he might be able to discharge faithfully his obligation to his family. Everyone in Nazareth well knew he was a good father to his family, and this was a matter so near the heart of every noble Jews that Jesus' plea found an appreciative response in the hearts of many of his hearers; and some of those who were not thus minded were disarmed by a speech made by James, which, while not on the program, was delivered at this time. That very day the chazan had rehearsed James in his speech, but that was their secret.

127:2.9 James stated that he was sure Jesus would help to liberate his people if he (James) were only old enough to assume responsibility for the family, and that, if they would only consent to allow Jesus to remain "with us, to be our father and teacher, then you will have not just one leader from Joseph's family, but presently you will have five loyal nationalists, for are there not five of us boys to grow up and come forth from our brother-father's guidance to serve our nation?" And thus did the lad bring to a fairly happy ending a very tense and threatening situation.

127:2.10 The crisis for the time being was over, but never was this incident forgotten in Nazareth. The agitation persisted; not again was Jesus in universal favor; the division of sentiment was never fully overcome. And this, augmented by other and subsequent occurrences, was one of the chief reasons why he moved to Capernaum in later years. Henceforth Nazareth maintained a division of sentiment regarding the Son of Man.

127:2.11 James graduated at school this year and began full-time work at home in the carpenter shop. He had become a clever worker with tools and now took over the making of yokes and plows while Jesus began to do more house finishing and expert cabinet work.

127:2.12 This year Jesus made great progress in the organization of his mind. Gradually he had brought his divine and human natures together, and he accomplished all this organization of intellect by the force of his own decisions and with only the aid of his indwelling Monitor, just such a Monitor as all normal mortals on all postbestowal-Son worlds have within their minds. So far, nothing supernatural had happened in this young man's career except the visit of a messenger, dispatched by his elder brother Immanuel, who once appeared to him during the night at Jerusalem." UB


Caino

 

[Caino]

The car crash, the 5 year coma, and the inner voice - The story of Allison Zopel, a Urantia Book reader

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1879


Caino

 

[Aimiel]

More doctrines of demons. :duh:

 

[Caino]

DANGERS OF SELF-GRATIFICATION​

84:8.1 The great threat against family life is the menacing rising tide of self-gratification, the modern pleasure mania. The prime incentive to marriage used to be economic; sex attraction was secondary. Marriage, founded on self-maintenance, led to self-perpetuation and concomitantly provided one of the most desirable forms of self-gratification. It is the only institution of human society which embraces all three of the great incentives for living.

84:8.2 Originally, property was the basic institution of self-maintenance, while marriage functioned as the unique institution of self-perpetuation. Although food satisfaction, play, and humor, along with periodic sex indulgence, were means of self-gratification, it remains a fact that the evolving mores have failed to build any distinct institution of self-gratification. And it is due to this failure to evolve specialized techniques of pleasurable enjoyment that all human institutions are so completely shot through with this pleasure pursuit. Property accumulation is becoming an instrument for augmenting all forms of self-gratification, while marriage is often viewed only as a means of pleasure. And this overindulgence, this widely spread pleasure mania, now constitutes the greatest threat that has ever been leveled at the social evolutionary institution of family life, the home.

84:8.3 The violet race introduced a new and only imperfectly realized characteristic into the experience of humankind—the play instinct coupled with the sense of humor. It was there in measure in the Sangiks and Andonites, but the Adamic strain elevated this primitive propensity into the potential of pleasure, a new and glorified form of self-gratification. The basic type of self-gratification, aside from appeasing hunger, is sex gratification, and this form of sensual pleasure was enormously heightened by the blending of the Sangiks and the Andites.

84:8.4 There is real danger in the combination of restlessness, curiosity, adventure, and pleasure-abandon characteristic of the post-Andite races. The hunger of the soul cannot be satisfied with physical pleasures; the love of home and children is not augmented by the unwise pursuit of pleasure. Though you exhaust the resources of art, color, sound, rhythm, music, and adornment of person, you cannot hope thereby to elevate the soul or to nourish the spirit. Vanity and fashion cannot minister to home building and child culture; pride and rivalry are powerless to enhance the survival qualities of succeeding generations.

84:8.5 Advancing celestial beings all enjoy rest and the ministry of the reversion directors. All efforts to obtain wholesome diversion and to engage in uplifting play are sound; refreshing sleep, rest, recreation, and all pastimes which prevent the boredom of monotony are worth while. Competitive games, storytelling, and even the taste of good food may serve as forms of self-gratification. (When you use salt to savor food, pause to consider that, for almost a million years, man could obtain salt only by dipping his food in ashes.)

84:8.6 Let man enjoy himself; let the human race find pleasure in a thousand and one ways; let evolutionary mankind explore all forms of legitimate self-gratification, the fruits of the long upward biologic struggle. Man has well earned some of his present-day joys and pleasures. But look you well to the goal of destiny! Pleasures are indeed suicidal if they succeed in destroying property, which has become the institution of self-maintenance; and self-gratifications have indeed cost a fatal price if they bring about the collapse of marriage, the decadence of family life, and the destruction of the home—man's supreme evolutionary acquirement and civilization's only hope of survival.​

 

[Caino]

The Babylonian Exile
The disastrous altering of history​

"The custom of looking upon the record of the experiences of the Hebrews as sacred history and upon the transactions of the rest of the world as profane history is responsible for much of the confusion existing in the human mind as to the interpretation of history. And this difficulty arises because there is no secular history of the Jews. After the priests of the Babylonians exile had prepared their new record of God's supposedly miraculous dealings with the Hebrews, the sacred history of Israel as portrayed in the Old Testament, they carefully and completely destroyed the existing records of Hebrew affairs—such books as "The Doings of the Kings of Israel" and "The Doings of the Kings of Judah," together with several other more or less accurate records of Hebrew history." UB 1955​

The Babylonian Exile 586-538 BCE, the time of the enemas editing of the OT books known collevtivly as the Pentateuch. These are: Bereshit (Genesis), Shemot (Exodus), Wayiḳra (Leviticus), Bemidbar (Numbers), and Debarim (Deuteronomy)

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=135&letter=C&search=Babylonian Exile#525

Cultivation of Literature.
By : Richard Gottheil Victor Ryssel Marcus Jastrow Caspar Levias

"Particular attention was now paid to the ancestral literature; and thus there arose during the Babylonian Exile the profession of the "scribes," those learned in the Law who set the standard of piety and devotion, and who transmitted their precepts both to their successors and to the people at large, while at the same time extending the body of the laws by means of revision and amplification (see Pentateuch). Historical writings also were now revised in accordance with the standard of the Law, establishing as a basis the historical conception of Deuteronomy. All the calamities which had befallen Israel were accepted by these exiles as a punishment for transgressions, and particularly for idol-worship. The sin of Jeroboam had ruined Israel, and the transgressions of Manasseh, despite his subsequent thorough reformation, were only atoned for by the downfall of Judah. Therefore the history of the past was to serve both as a warning and as a guide for the future. This explains the purpose of the compilation of the various older historical works into a historical entity: the new Israel, risen from the grave of exile, must avoid the sins and errors which caused the ruin of its fathers. And indeed the Psalms which were composed after the Exile reveal a keener introspection, a deeper sense of contrition, and a more frank avowal of sin than the earlier ones."​

Jewish Encyclopedia:

By : Emil G. Hirsch Joseph Jacobs




The five books of Moses. The word is a Greek adaptation of the Hebrew expression "ḥamishshah ḥumshe ha-Torah" (five-fifths of the Law) applied to the books Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, and indicating that these five books were to be taken as a whole, as they are in the first distinct reference to a division of the Biblical books by the Greek Sirach (see Jew. Encyc. iii. 145b, s.v. Bible Canon). As a consequence the various books are named in Hebrew by the first significant word of the section: Bereshit (Genesis), Shemot (Exodus), Wayiḳra (Leviticus), Bemidbar (Numbers), and Debarim (Deuteronomy); but in the Septuagint, where the different sections had already obtained a separate individuality, they are known by names roughly indicating their contents as dealing with "the beginnings of things," the "exodus" from captivity, the "Levitical" laws, the "numbers" of the Israelites, and the "repetition of the Law." For a detailed account of the contents of each separate book see the articles devoted thereto.

Ancient Jewish tradition attributed the authorship of the Pentateuch (with the exception of thelast eight verses describing Moses' death) to Moses himself. But the many inconsiztencies and seeming contradictions contained in it attracted the attention of the Rabbis, who exercised their ingenuity in reconciling them. A catena of such reconciliations was given by Manasseh ben Israel in his "Conciliador" (1651). Abraham ibn Ezra was, however, the only Jewish exegete in the Middle Ages to cast any doubt upon the Mosaic authorship, and then only obscurely and with regard to a few detached passages, as in the instances of the reference to the Canaanite (Gen. xii. 6), that to Og's bedstead (Deut. iii. 11), and that to Moses (ib. xxxix. 9; see his commentary on Deut. i. 1). Spinoza, in his "Tractatus Theologico-Politicus" (1671, viii., ix.), goes so far as to attribute the composition of the Pentateuch not to Moses, but to Ezra, which view appears to have existed even in the time of the Apocrypha (comp. II Esd. xiv. 21-22). This and other denials of Mosaic authorship led to a new line of defense by Richard Simon, who regarded the Pentateuch as being made up by Moses from earlier documents. This was followed by the hypothesis of Astruc, that the book of Genesis was made up by Moses from two sources, one of which used the word "Elohim" for God, and the other "Yhwh." This method, applied to the other books of the Pentateuch chiefly by De Wette, Ewald, and Hupfeld, led finally to the definitive attribution of the contents of the Pentateuch to five different sources:

(1)

The Jahvist, whose work is distinguished by the use of the name "Jahveh" (Wellhausen and Kuenen, J; Dillmann, B).

(2)

The Elohist, using the name "Elohim" (Wellhausen, E; Dillmann, C).

(3)

The Deuteronomist, who compiled Deuteronomy and "redacted" the Jahvist and Elohist narratives (Wellhausen, D; Dillmann, D).

(4)

The Priestly Narrative, beginning with Gen. i.-ii. 3 (Wellhausen, Q; Kuenen, P2; Dillmann, A).

(5)

The Priestly Code, containing the legislative sections of the middle books (Wellhausen, PC; Kuenen, P1; Dillmann, S).

Allowing, however, for editorial redaction, no less than twenty-eight different sources are distinguished by the latest analysis of Carpenter and Battersby ("The Hexateuch," p. xii., London, 1900). There is nowadays remarkable unanimity among the higher critics with regard to the attribution of the various sections of the Pentateuch to one or other of these five sources, though at times the text is by this means infinitesimally split up by merely formal criteria, as in Gen. xxvii., xxxi., xxxv.; Ex. iv., ix., xx.; Num. xiii.-xvi., xx. In the accompanying tables is given a summary account of the latest analysis as contained in Carpenter and Battersby (l.c. i. 272-278).Analysis of Sources to Pentateuch.(From Carpenter and Battersby, "The Hexateuch.")
(see image)
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As regards the age of these various sources there is considerable discrepancy of opinion, especially with regard to the Priestly Code and its accompanying narrative. While the older school, represented mainly by Dillmann, who is followed by Renan and Kittel in their histories of Israel, regarded this as the earliest source, to be placed in the ninth century B.C., Kuenen and Wellhausen place it later than any other and connect it with the recovery of the Law by Ezra. Both schools agree in regarding the legal portions of Deuteronomy as identical with the book of the Law discovered by Hilkiah 622 B.C. The differences in the views of the two schools as regards date and provenience are indicated in the table on following page.

The arguments by which Wellhausen has almost entirely captured the whole body of contemporary Biblical critics are based on two assumptions: first,that ritual becomes more elaborate in the development of religion; secondly, that older sources necessarily deal with the earlier stages of ritual development. The former assumption is against the evidence of primitive cultures, and the latter finds no support in the evidence of ritual codes like those of India. Wellhausen's views are based almost exclusively on literal analysis, and will need to be supplemented by an examination from the point of view of institutional archeology. See also Bible Exegesis; Hexateuch.Composition of the Pentateuch.
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Caino

 

[bucksplasher]

You

You

say "disastrous" while others might say "inspired" altering of history.

Seems the book you follow might be accused of a similar crime?

tWINs

 

[Caino]

say "disastrous" while others might say "inspired" altering of history.

Seems the book you follow might be accused of a similar crime?

tWINs

If that were the case then yes my good friend, you would be correct, it would be a crime. But spiritual truth is "living", it lived in that age and lives in this age. It will be alive tomorrow and flow where it is welcome regardless of the stories that carried it to us.

No matter how primitive mans beliefs once were (evolved religion) they served as the scaffolding to the reception of (revealed religion).

* What had Abrahams religion been before he made the agreement with God? He had to have had some religious practice, reverence for deity, respect for the sacred, a value system which commanded his conscience.........no matter how primitive those older forms were, they provided a foundation for the new agreement.

* Judaism provided a foundation for the reception of the Gospel in the hearts of those who left the old religion for the new Christian religion. Do you have a full appreciation of what that traumatic transformation must have been like for the Jews that did believe, did convert? What awful pressure must they have endured from family, friends, religious authorities?

"When modern man wonders at the presentation of so much in the scriptures of different religions that may be regarded as obscene, he should pause to consider that passing generations have feared to eliminate what their ancestors deemed to be holy and sacred. A great deal that one generation might look upon as obscene, preceding generations have considered a part of their accepted mores, even as approved religious rituals. A considerable amount of religious controversy has been occasioned by the never-ending attempts to reconcile olden but reprehensible practices with newly advanced reason, to find plausible theories in justification of creedal perpetuation of ancient and outworn customs."​

The "crime" bucksplasher is that sooooo many young people have been completely turned off by the older primitive half truths; this obscures them from the living truths of Jesus.

Caino

 

[Caino]

What does your heart tell you? Is there truth in the following exchange purported to have been between Jesus and Nathaniel?

THE TALK WITH NATHANIEL ​

159:4.1 And then went Jesus over to Abila, where Nathaniel and his associates labored. Nathaniel was much bothered by some of Jesus' pronouncements which seemed to detract from the authority of the recognized Hebrew scriptures. Accordingly, on this night, after the usual period of questions and answers, Nathaniel took Jesus away from the others and asked: "Master, could you trust me to know the truth about the Scriptures? I observe that you teach us only a portion of the sacred writings—the best as I view it—and I infer that you reject the teachings of the rabbis to the effect that the words of the law are the very words of God, having been with God in heaven even before the times of Abraham and Moses. What is the truth about the Scriptures?" When Jesus heard the question of his bewildered apostle, he answered:

159:4.2 "Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom.

159:4.3"These writings are the work of men, some of them holy men, others not so holy. The teachings of these books represent the views and extent of enlightenment of the times in which they had their origin. As a revelation of truth, the last are more dependable than the first. The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin, but mistake not, they do constitute the best collection of religious wisdom and spiritual truth to be found in all the world at this time.

159:4.4"Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds.

159:4.5 "Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies—men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. The Scriptures always have, and always will, reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. Have you not noted that the concepts of Yahweh grow in beauty and glory as the prophets make their records from Samuel to Isaiah? And you should remember that the Scriptures are intended for religious instruction and spiritual guidance. They are not the works of either historians or philosophers.

159:4.6"The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures.

159:4.7"The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records.

159:4.8"Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.

159:4.9"But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scripture is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow-minded intolerance. The light of the Scriptures is only dimmed by prejudice and darkened by superstition. A false fear of sacredness has prevented religion from being safeguarded by common sense. The fear of the authority of the sacred writings of the past effectively prevents the honest souls of today from accepting the new light of the gospel, the light which these very God-knowing men of another generation so intensely longed to see.

159:4.10"But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people. And thus do they pervert and distort the Scriptures, making them the guide to slavish details of the daily life and an authority in things nonspiritual instead of appealing to the sacred writings as the repository of the moral wisdom, religious inspiration, and the spiritual teaching of the God-knowing men of other generations."
159:4.11 Nathaniel was enlightened, and shocked, by the Master's pronouncement. He long pondered this talk in the depths of his soul, but he told no man concerning this conference until after Jesus' ascension; and even then he feared to impart the full story of the Master's instruction. UB


Caino

 

[bucksplasher]

Yes

Yes

that's why we have a "living" Church that speaks to us today through the Roman Catholic Church.

She divides and separates heresy from correct interpretation.

She recognizes "secret" revelation as wishful thinking.

tWINs

PS Parts of this "revelation" sound suspiciously like my bible interpretation classes.

 

[Caino]

that's why we have a "living" Church that speaks to us today through the Roman Catholic Church.

She divides and separates heresy from correct interpretation.

She recognizes "secret" revelation as wishful thinking.

tWINs

PS Parts of this "revelation" sound suspiciously like my bible interpretation classes.

......it was this same brand of human institution that sought the destruction of Jesus, to stop his threatening teaching. They sealed their hearts to his liberating love, they were also emboldened by the sectarian "chosen people" pride.

You mean well Buchsplasher, but there is nothing secret about this material, just as Jesus spoke publicly and answered all the sneering questions, the UB is wide open and free for review.


Caino

 

[bucksplasher]

I

I

meant "secret" to Nathaniel and to the rest of the Church until your papers came to light whenever they did so.

Seems that "modern" thought went into this "secret" dialog.

tWINs

 

[chrysostom]

Caino,

do you have anything to say about 'a course in miracles'?

 

[Lost Comet]

Chrys, I won't speak for Caino, but I assume you have read my criticisms of ACIM and the negative resonance I get from it.

The Urantia Book evokes a very different response. It resonates with me in a very positive way. I am drawn to it like a moth to a flame. I have left it on several occasions to pursue answers elsewhere, but only to return to it with a greater appreciation of its consistency and completeness.

Whereas ACIM is two-dimensional and ambiguous in matters that are important to my (hopefully) rational mind, the UB is seven-dimensional and satisfying. "Total, infinite reality is existential in seven phases and as seven co-ordinate Absolutes." (4.13) 0:3.1 It consists of one Original, three Actuals, and three Potentials. (I won't get into that because that's not the reason for this post.)

I love the Bible, too, the KJV, mostly. My appreciation for the Bible is, I will admit, probably mostly sentimental. That is, except for Ecclesiastes. I read it often because, I kid you not, it is like reading about my relation with the world.

The UB says, and experience confirms, "A considerable amount of religious controversy has been occasioned by the never-ending attempts to reconcile olden but reprehensible practices with newly advanced reason, to find plausible theories in justification of creedal perpetuation of ancient and outworn customs." (1004.6) 92:2.3 So, I have problems with the Bible, too, but not nearly as much as I do with ACIM, which isn't shielded by sentiment. I cringe at its ambiguity and its allusion to the Holy Spirit and its function without telling us what it is or how it relates to Totality. My mind recoils at its contradictions, like the separation never having happened and the healing that must take place. How and why "perfection" succumbed to illusion in the first place is never really addressed.

Freelight accepts ACIM's deeper teachings, as do I (at least some of them), but he doesn't criticize it. At least, I haven't seen any criticism. I'm not so kind. Heck, I see a lot to criticize about the UB, too.

 

[chrysostom]

Chrys, I won't speak for Caino, but I assume you have read my criticisms of ACIM and the negative resonance I get from it.

The Urantia Book evokes a very different response. It resonates with me in a very positive way. I am drawn to it like a moth to a flame. I have left it on several occasions to pursue answers elsewhere, but only to return to it with a greater appreciation of its consistency and completeness.

Whereas ACIM is two-dimensional and ambiguous in matters that are important to my (hopefully) rational mind, the UB is seven-dimensional and satisfying. "Total, infinite reality is existential in seven phases and as seven co-ordinate Absolutes." (4.13) 0:3.1 It consists of one Original, three Actuals, and three Potentials. (I won't get into that because that's not the reason for this post.)

I love the Bible, too, the KJV, mostly. My appreciation for the Bible is, I will admit, probably mostly sentimental. That is, except for Ecclesiastes. I read it often because, I kid you not, it is like reading about my relation with the world.

The UB says, and experience confirms, "A considerable amount of religious controversy has been occasioned by the never-ending attempts to reconcile olden but reprehensible practices with newly advanced reason, to find plausible theories in justification of creedal perpetuation of ancient and outworn customs." (1004.6) 92:2.3 So, I have problems with the Bible, too, but not nearly as much as I do with ACIM, which isn't shielded by sentiment. I cringe at its ambiguity and its allusion to the Holy Spirit and its function without telling us what it is or how it relates to Totality. My mind recoils at its contradictions, like the separation never having happened and the healing that must take place. How and why "perfection" succumbed to illusion in the first place is never really addressed.

Freelight accepts ACIM's deeper teachings, as do I (at least some of them), but he doesn't criticize it. At least, I haven't seen any criticism. I'm not so kind. Heck, I see a lot to criticize about the UB, too.

do you believe Jesus is God?
and
do you believe that is important?

 

[Caino]

meant "secret" to Nathaniel and to the rest of the Church until your papers came to light whenever they did so.

Seems that "modern" thought went into this "secret" dialog.

tWINs

Bucksplasher, the collection of books of the Bible which finally made the cut was originally comprised of more books considered to be inspired by believers in the first 300 years. I don't fault the church for trying to establish consistency among believers. They did not have the schools of linguistic study, science or historical validation that we do today. But aren't you familiar with the churches evolution in thinking about the accuracy of the scripture? In some ways they are saying what I'm saying. In fact I think the church knows more but does not want to disturb the people and loose power for what they see as "good".




The Times
The Sunday Times

October 5, 2005

Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”..........

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece

 

[Caino]

Caino,

do you have anything to say about 'a course in miracles'?

No, I don't think much of ACIM. I know UB readers that came from ACIM, I have a couple friends that did it, but I'm not interested.

 

[freelight]

elastics......

elastics......

Chrys, I won't speak for Caino, but I assume you have read my criticisms of ACIM and the negative resonance I get from it.

The Urantia Book evokes a very different response. It resonates with me in a very positive way. I am drawn to it like a moth to a flame. I have left it on several occasions to pursue answers elsewhere, but only to return to it with a greater appreciation of its consistency and completeness.

Whereas ACIM is two-dimensional and ambiguous in matters that are important to my (hopefully) rational mind, the UB is seven-dimensional and satisfying. "Total, infinite reality is existential in seven phases and as seven co-ordinate Absolutes." (4.13) 0:3.1 It consists of one Original, three Actuals, and three Potentials. (I won't get into that because that's not the reason for this post.)

I love the Bible, too, the KJV, mostly. My appreciation for the Bible is, I will admit, probably mostly sentimental. That is, except for Ecclesiastes. I read it often because, I kid you not, it is like reading about my relation with the world.

The UB says, and experience confirms, "A considerable amount of religious controversy has been occasioned by the never-ending attempts to reconcile olden but reprehensible practices with newly advanced reason, to find plausible theories in justification of creedal perpetuation of ancient and outworn customs." (1004.6) 92:2.3 So, I have problems with the Bible, too, but not nearly as much as I do with ACIM, which isn't shielded by sentiment. I cringe at its ambiguity and its allusion to the Holy Spirit and its function without telling us what it is or how it relates to Totality. My mind recoils at its contradictions, like the separation never having happened and the healing that must take place. How and why "perfection" succumbed to illusion in the first place is never really addressed.

Freelight accepts ACIM's deeper teachings, as do I (at least some of them), but he doesn't criticize it. At least, I haven't seen any criticism. I'm not so kind. Heck, I see a lot to criticize about the UB, too.

I agree with the great consistency and profundity of the UB...as much as I enjoy my excursions into Non-Duality....and more 'ethereal' texts such as ACIM (I only occasionally read and write creative commentary on the text, and have shared my criticisms of aspects of it). Each have their unique place, and anyone may resonate more with one or another source-text or 'schools' at any time in their journey.

I'll continue commentary in our ACIM - Q&A thread from time to time, of what I call 'spiritual musing', and continue in 'creative dialogue'. Some UB readers accept both texts however they compliment each other, and others seem to reject ACIM altogether,...so its apparently a matter of one's own sentiments and relatability. Spiritual psychology can be more elastic, but such depends on how far you 'stretch' it



pj

 

[chrysostom]

I agree with the great consistency and profundity of the UB...as much as I enjoy my excursions into Non-Duality....and more 'ethereal' texts such as ACIM (I only occasionally read and write creative commentary on the text, and have shared my criticisms of aspects of it). Each have their unique place, and anyone may resonate more with one or another source-text or 'schools' at any time in their journey.

I'll continue commentary in our ACIM - Q&A thread from time to time, of what I call 'spiritual musing', and continue in 'creative dialogue'. Some UB readers accept both texts however they compliment each other, and others seem to reject ACIM altogether,...so its apparently a matter of one's own sentiments and relatability. Spiritual psychology can be more elastic, but such depends on how far you 'stretch' it



pj

I don't see any limits to your ability to stretch

 

[Damian]

I agree with the great consistency and profundity of the UB...as much as I enjoy my excursions into Non-Duality....and more 'ethereal' texts such as ACIM (I only occasionally read and write creative commentary on the text, and have shared my criticisms of aspects of it). Each have their unique place, and anyone may resonate more with one or another source-text or 'schools' at any time in their journey.

I'll continue commentary in our ACIM - Q&A thread from time to time, of what I call 'spiritual musing', and continue in 'creative dialogue'. Some UB readers accept both texts however they compliment each other, and others seem to reject ACIM altogether,...so its apparently a matter of one's own sentiments and relatability. Spiritual psychology can be more elastic, but such depends on how far you 'stretch' it

The goal of the Course is spiritual enlightenment, not metaphysical speculation. (Anything else would be deemed a distraction.) That's why I stated previously that the Course basically appeals to those who are on the mystical quest.