The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[Zeke]

Zeke, you repeat that theme with the same sort of zeal and religious conviction. To be clear, are you saying that the person of Jesus simply did not exist? His apostles? His followers? The first martyrs?

First I apologize for feeding heckle and jeckle, And yes I doubt the validity of the historical Jesus story given to the world by Rome, for control and managing the people through fear and ignorance. The astrology timing is another factor in the rise of the fisher of men, the story is found in the stars.

The Christ within is the one I have council with, not mans worldly theological distractions from that kingdom of God through incorporating ever changing, and debated doctrines that lead to heckle and jeckles seeing elephants fly in the past and future. The story happens in us, and in darkness to mans corporate religions made of dead stones.

I see the story being one of the human body, being the holy land, with the head being the temple, which is the place where Jesus in the allegory pointed to Luke 17:20,21.

First seek the kingdom of God where? in theology or books, or the holy land where the temple made without hands is located?

Anyway I will refrain from letting my ego respond to the dirty birds, Blessings, Zeke.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

First I apologize for feeding heckle and jeckle, And yes I doubt the validity of the historical Jesus story given to the world by Rome, for control and managing the people through fear and ignorance. The astrology timing is another factor in the rise of the fisher of men, the story is found in the stars.

The Christ within is the one I have council with, not mans worldly theological distractions from that kingdom of God through incorporating ever changing, and debated doctrines that lead to heckle and jeckles seeing elephants fly in the past and future. The story happens in us, and in darkness to mans corporate religions made of dead stones.

I see the story being one of the human body, being the holy land, with the head being the temple, which is the place where Jesus in the allegory pointed to Luke 17:20,21.

First seek the kingdom of God where? in theology or books, or the holy land where the temple made without hands is located?

Anyway I will refrain from letting my ego respond to the dirty birds, Blessings, Zeke.

And there (the bolded) is your problem, oh dirty bird raven.

I share many of your criticisms of mainline exoteric Christianity, and challenge the majority of those doctrines in some way or other. But the head is not the naos (holy of holies) temple. You have believed and embraced the lie focusing on the soul of man rather than the spirit of man.

Your mind is not the temple of which you attempt to speak. Soul cannot acquire or attain unto spirit.

This is why you are deceived in utter prelest. Your delusion is the greatest kind there is, even beyond the mindless minions of indoctrinated religionists in the Christian faith.

You have never known the true esoteric Christian faith, to which ALL menial forms of Esotericism pale. Your soulical pursuits aren't spirit, and never can be. And you can never know the difference.

 

[Aimiel]

The difference is in God's Presence. Those who are in Christ have His Spirit... those who don't need Him. He is worth even more than our necessary food. It is only when we pursue Him with all of our heart and not just mere thought that we shall find Him.

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Caino]

First I apologize for feeding heckle and jeckle, And yes I doubt the validity of the historical Jesus story given to the world by Rome, for control and managing the people through fear and ignorance. The astrology timing is another factor in the rise of the fisher of men, the story is found in the stars.

The Christ within is the one I have council with, not mans worldly theological distractions from that kingdom of God through incorporating ever changing, and debated doctrines that lead to heckle and jeckles seeing elephants fly in the past and future. The story happens in us, and in darkness to mans corporate religions made of dead stones.

I see the story being one of the human body, being the holy land, with the head being the temple, which is the place where Jesus in the allegory pointed to Luke 17:20,21.

First seek the kingdom of God where? in theology or books, or the holy land where the temple made without hands is located?

Anyway I will refrain from letting my ego respond to the dirty birds, Blessings, Zeke.

Thanks Zeke.

I've considered this idea of a Jesus myth, it would be very difficult for Roman Pagans to convince Jewish fisherman to give up their lively hood, their religion and their families to spread a myth and die for it.

 

[freelight]

Thought Adjusters.....

Thought Adjusters.....

Nope... I'm pretty sure that, "Thought Adjuster," is the name of the demon spirit that has you hoodwinked.

The 'thought-adjuster' or 'spirit-monitor' is far from 'demonic', since its an actual pre-personal fragment of the eternal and infinite God which indwells the mind.

An introductory video -

God Within - The Thought Adjuster

Much more on the 'thought-adjusters' are found in the papers below -

> Origin and Nature of Thought Adjusters

Follow subsequent chapters below at bottom of the page above (Papers 107 - 111) ---->

- Mission and Ministry of Thought Adjusters

- Relation of Adjusters to Universe creatures

- Relation of Adjusters to individual mortals

- The Adjuster and the Soul

~*~*~

As a reminder this is information about what the papers teach about the 'TA' (thought-adjuster). Those who wish to engage in discussion on the subject must first "learn" (properly educate themselves) by reading the papers, - then they can actually have a 'dialogue'. The familiar and unique aspects of the 'TA' can be correlated and compared to the concept of the 'indwelling God' or 'Spirit' found in our various religious traditions.

While there is only One Original Infinite Spirit-Father...there are also 'spirits' of this Original Father, and various spirit-personalities and divine Sons, emenating out from the First Source and Center, so that there are a diverse range and different spiritual ministries. So if the phrase comes up referring to the various 'spirits' in Man, these indicate different qualities and functions of spiritual ministry, since within the One Infinite Spirit are a multiplicity of 'spirit-offsprings'.



pj

 

[Aimiel]

The 'thought-adjuster' or 'spirit-monitor' is far from 'demonic', since its an actual fragment of the eternal and infinite God, the indwelling Father.

Nope. You've been deceived.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

As a reminder this is information about what the papers teach about the 'TA' (thought-adjuster). Those who wish to engage in discussion on the subject must first "learn" (properly educate themselves) by reading the papers, - then they can actually have a 'dialogue'.

I guess you are correct in stating that you and I aren't having a dialogue, since I only have a monologue, because you're not taking anything I say into consideration.

The familiar and unique aspects of the 'TA' can be correlated and compared to the concept of the 'indwelling God' or 'Spirit' found in our various religious traditions.

It's more like demonic possession.

While there is only One Original Infinite Spirit-Father...there are also 'spirits' of this Original Father, and various spirit-personalities and divine Sons, emenating out from the First Source and Center, so that there are a diverse range and different spiritual ministries.

That perfectly describes demons, who are diverse, used to be Sons and 'emanated' from Heaven when they were booted out.

So if the phrase comes up referring to the various 'spirits' in Man, these indicate different qualities and functions of spiritual ministry, since within the One Infinite Spirit are a multiplicity of spirit-offsprings.

Those who are for us (Christians) are greater, both in power and number, than those against us.

2 Kings 6:17
And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

 

[freelight]

Trolling not allowed......

Trolling not allowed......

I guess you are correct in stating that you and I aren't having a dialogue, since I only have a monologue, because you're not taking anything I say into consideration.

You have been unable thru-out this whole thread to engage in a dialogue on the papers, refusing to educate yourself with all the resources and commentaries provided. Such shows who is at fault with respecting the forum rules, being a thread-pest (hi jacking, pontificating), marginalizing the subject, belittling, condescending, etc.

What is shared is granted for those actually interested in the papers, since what is shared is what it teaches, since that is the subject of this thread. Have you properly considered all I have shared (commentary, info. multiple resources) about the various subjects explained in the UB? - dialogue is a two-street. At best you could actually remedy your ignorance here by learning, and then using such information to compare and correlate your own concepts with such to have a respectful stimulating discussion instead of continuous pontificating, condescending and demonizing. Readers are free here to see who has been cooperative towards engaging 'dialogue' on the subject at hand, and who has been haphazardly pestering and disrupting, refusing to engage in conversation intelligently and respectfully.

But this is so beyond this infactuation you've developed and constant attacking (noticed by others as well), since the subject is the UB itself, not anything 'personal'. One's ego ought to be out of the picture here, although that can be challenging on certain levels. That's where thought, descrection and discernment come in.

Video presentations and a recent presentation on 'thought-adjsuters'(all resources) have been provided. After you have read and listened to such, you may engage any number of points therein. That's how a discussion is ensued. Otherwise, I will have to put you back on ignore....as 'tolerance' levels are exhausted.




pj

 

[Aimiel]

You have been unable thru-out this whole thread to engage in a dialogue on the papers, refusing to educate yourself with all the resources and commentaries provided.

As I have said many times: one doesn't need to know every single fact about counterfeit money to reject anything but the real thing if one knows what the real money looks like. Same goes for God's Truth. There isn't any in the UB. It's counterfeit and NOT from above.

Such shows who is at fault with respecting the forum rules, being a thread-pest (hi jacking, pontificating), marginalizing the subject, belittling, condescending, etc.

You're entitled to your opinion, but then: so am I.

What is shared is granted for those actually interested in the papers, since what is shared is what it teaches, since that is the subject of this thread.

What it teaches is anti-Christ.

Have you properly considered all I have shared (commentary, info. multiple resources) about the various subjects explained in the UB?

Of course I have. To treat fiction properly, one must know reality. I know spiritual reality. You know fiction. We're oil and water.

... dialogue is a two-street.

No way!!! :nono:

At best you could actually remedy your ignorance here by learning, and then using such information to compare and correlate your own concepts with such to have a respectful stimulating discussion instead of continuous pontificating, condescending and demonizing.

I would if there weren't demons behind the fiction that is called: "Urantia."

Readers are free here to see who has been cooperative towards engaging 'dialogue' on the subject at hand, and who has been haphazardly pestering and disrupting, refusing to engage in conversation intelligently and respectfully.

Where have I not shown you respect or spoken un-intelligently. I'm ready to engage in conversation, but you're looking for ways to boot me from your thread.

But this is so beyond this infactuation you've developed and constant attacking (noticed by others as well), since the subject is the UB itself, not anything 'personal'.

Now you sound like Squeaky, with a bit of a Napoleon complex. :rotfl:

One's ego ought to be out of the picture here, although that can be challenging on certain levels.

We are our Ego, as well as Id and Super-Ego. If we weren't we wouldn't eat or bathe ourselves. Ego is a part of life. Get used to disappointment.

...I will have to put you back on ignore....as 'tolerance' levels are exhausted.

I should be so lucky. You never have anything decent to say, so you might as well stop typing anyway. All you do is vomit the excrement your demons dump onto you.

There, how's that for honesty and pushing ego aside. Were you able to control your ego, you'd seek ways to dialogue with me instead of tossing me aside like yesterday's garbage. You're the biggest hypocrite on TOL. :duh:

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

...I will have to put you back on ignore....as 'tolerance' levels are exhausted.

Oh the irony. Those demanding tolerance (which is just Pluralism and Relativism, etc.), can't tolerate those in the Christian faith who refuse to be Pluralists when the Christian faith isn't a Pluralistic faith.

The Christian faith stands alone. That's why it's the target of Pluralist Esotericists. The intent is to wear others down by insisting on including bits and pieces of Christainity into their syncretistic agenda of dilution.

Tolerance is forced Henotheism, constantly foisted upon Christain Monotheism with great expectancy and entitlement... by Pluralism.

It's an insidiously ingenious means of attempting to make the Christian faith the bad guy, when it's the exact opposite by design and intent.

The "nicest" are the worst of all, feigning love that isn't even agape, and demanding Monotheism kneel at the feet of Rationalism, Empiricism, and Post-Modern non-Absolutism.

Hypocrites, one and all. The intolerant demanding tolerance.

Show your mettle, Esotericists. Tolerate every last minutiae of Christians earnestly contending for their non-Pluralistic faith of Monotheism without compromise.

You don't. And it's because you're all prevaricators with an agenda. If not, you wouldn't be here. You'd be on one of the zoned-out fruit loop esotericism sites. It's not like there aren't any goofball forums for you and your peers.

Some of us aren't blind to your motives and the stupidity of all you spew on TOL.

 

[freelight]

The Christ within......

The Christ within......

The Christ within is the one I have council with, not mans worldly theological distractions from that kingdom of God through incorporating ever changing, and debated doctrines that lead to heckle and jeckles seeing elephants fly in the past and future. The story happens in us, and in darkness to mans corporate religions made of dead stones.

This would equate with the 'thought-adjuster' or 'spirit-monitor', that actual fragment of divinity indwelling the soul, shared previously...for such illumines and communicates with the soul, guiding it along. It also likens to the 'buddhi-light', the 'informing principle' within consciousness in the Buddhist schools, and the 'atman' in the Vedic schools.

The 'Christ within' may more specifically equate to the higher mental body or 'higher Self' if we would differentiate such from the 'Spirit of God' in general, such depending on what school or tradition one chooses to affiliate with, or whatever way one feels best in so describing the 'Christ within'. The Infinite Spirit is 'universal' and 'individual', and is described variously according to different systems. Essentially, the 'Christ' is the 'light' and 'love' of God.


pj

 

[Aimiel]

Oh the irony. Those demanding tolerance (which is just Pluralism and Relativism, etc.), can't tolerate those in the Christian faith who refuse to be Pluralists when the Christian faith isn't a Pluralistic faith.

The Christian faith stands alone. That's why it's the target of Pluralist Esotericists. The intent is to wear others down by insisting on including bits and pieces of Christainity into their syncretistic agenda of dilution.

Tolerance is forced Henotheism, constantly foisted upon Christain Monotheism with great expectancy and entitlement... by Pluralism.

It's an insidiously ingenious means of attempting to make the Christian faith the bad guy, when it's the exact opposite by design and intent.

The "nicest" are the worst of all, feigning love that isn't even agape, and demanding Monotheism kneel at the feet of Rationalism, Empiricism, and Post-Modern non-Absolutism.

Hypocrites, one and all. The intolerant demanding tolerance.

Show your mettle, Esotericists. Tolerate every last minutiae of Christians earnestly contending for their non-Pluralistic faith of Monotheism without compromise.

You don't. And it's because you're all prevaricators with an agenda. If not, you wouldn't be here. You'd be on one of the zoned-out fruit loop esotericism sites. It's not like there aren't any goofball forums for you and your peers.

Some of us aren't blind to your motives and the stupidity of all you spew on TOL.

Excellent post! :thumb:

 

[freelight]

Excellence holds a higher standard......

Excellence holds a higher standard......

Excellent post!

Hardly 'excellent' since this person's interjections bear little upon the subject at hand (being the Urantia Papers), but are loaded with so many presumptions, as no one is bringing up the issue of 'tolerance' at all, neither has a demand for such been proposed, so its a faulty premise for starters, which also includes one's own claim to some absolute or exclusive truth (in this case their 'version' of some Christian 'dogma' or 'theology'), which by nature is 'intolerant' of any other point of view. Who is intolerant? So the claim is rather self-defeating, kinda like getting poked in the eye with one's own finger.

Furthermore, the UB itself is rather 'inclusive' of the truth found in all religious traditions since they represent both 'evolutionary' and aspects of 'revelatory' truth dispensations as truth is given to man as he progresses along and is able to assimilate such. The papers themselves claim to be the latest and 5th epochal revelation to the planet, so it naturally includes all former dispensations of knowledge (science, philosophy, religion), yet expanding upon them with new additional dimensions, being of cosmic proportions. Such is the nature of 'progressive revelation'.

See:

Paper 92 - The Later Evolution of Religion

Paper 131 - The World's Religions

131:0.1 DURING the Alexandrian sojourn of Jesus, Gonod, and Ganid, the young man spent much of his time and no small sum of his father’s money making a collection of the teachings of the world’s religions about God and his relations with mortal man. Ganid employed more than threescore learned translators in the making of this abstract of the religious doctrines of the world concerning the Deities. And it should be made plain in this record that all these teachings portraying monotheism were largely derived, directly or indirectly, from the preachments of the missionaries of Machiventa Melchizedek, who went forth from their Salem headquarters to spread the doctrine of one God — the Most High — to the ends of the earth. (see Paper 131) *

* Note that this synopsis of the various religions all recognize a single and central divine source and origin of existence, influenced by the early missionaries of Melchizedek whose teaching was essentially 'monotheistic'. The UB is wholly monotheistic in essence, even with there existing a great cosmic hierarchy of Creator-Sons and many other cosmic beings and angelic orders. There is ONLY ONE First Source and Center, One Infinite I AM which is the Origin and Father-Mother of all.



pj

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Hardly 'excellent' since this person's interjections bear little upon the subject at hand (being the Urantia Papers), but are loaded with so many presumptions, as no one is bringing up the issue of 'tolerance' at all, neither has a demand for such been proposed, so its a faulty premise for starters, which also includes one's own claim to some absolute or exclusive truth (in this case their 'version' of some Christian 'dogma' or 'theology'), which by nature is 'intolerant' of any other point of view. Who is intolerant? So the claim is rather self-defeating, kinda like getting poked in the eye with one's own finger.

Furthermore, the UB itself is rather 'inclusive' of the truth found in all religious traditions since they represent both 'evolutionary' and aspects of 'revelatory' truth dispensations as truth is given to man as he progresses along and is able to assimilate such. The papers themselves claim to be the latest and 5th epochal revelation to the planet, so it naturally includes all former dispensations of knowledge (science, philosophy, religion), yet expanding upon them with new additional dimensions, being of cosmic proportions. Such is the nature of 'progressive revelation'.

See:

Paper 92 - The Later Evolution of Religion

Paper 131 - The World's Religions



* Note that this synopsis of the various religions all recognize a single and central divine source and origin of existence, influenced by the early missionaries of Melchizedek whose teaching was essentially 'monotheistic'. The UB is wholly monotheistic in essence, even with there existing a great cosmic hierarchy of Creator-Sons and many other cosmic beings and angelic orders. There is ONLY ONE First Source and Center, One Infinite I AM which is the Origin and Father-Mother of all.



pj

Syncretism isn't inclusion. It's intentional dilution. It's intolerance in the guise of tolerance, demanding tolerance while being intolerant.

Esotericists do NOT tolerate the non-Pluralism of the Christian faith. You're all hypocritical prevaricators. Demon fodder.

There is nothing worse that an Esotericist.

 

[Zeke]

Thanks Zeke.

I've considered this idea of a Jesus myth, it would be very difficult for Roman Pagans to convince Jewish fisherman to give up their lively hood, their religion and their families to spread a myth and die for it.

Not really that hard, when people become dependent they will except, and began to believe what ever they are told by the official power structure be it religion of govern-mentalist, both deceive by legal twisting of the meaning of words! go read blacks law, and do some research into the legal definition of words like person, and citizen, something most think refers to a flesh and blood being.

I can only go by what I have gleaned from the record, and my own experience among the religion over thirty years. The acceptance of the historical account is one that I don't believe anymore, but that is my opinion and you know what they say about them.

The human body being the holy land is a good study, even the medical terms used match the symbols used in the text, and goes along with the statement that the kingdom of God is within you. That Divine light, lights every man that comes into this world.

Looked into the water and see the image, or the mirror, that is the allegorical substance likened unto man, Jesus the image of Good, God made into a icon, idol, along with the book of spells, (when took literal) that makes religious con-verts out of man, etc.............

Blessings, Zeke.

 

[Caino]

Not really that hard, when people become dependent they will except, and began to believe what ever they are told by the official power structure be it religion of govern-mentalist, both deceive by legal twisting of the meaning of words! go read blacks law, and do some research into the legal definition of words like person, and citizen, something most think refers to a flesh and blood being.

I can only go by what I have gleaned from the record, and my own experience among the religion over thirty years. The acceptance of the historical account is one that I don't believe anymore, but that is my opinion and you know what they say about them.

The human body being the holy land is a good study, even the medical terms used match the symbols used in the text, and goes along with the statement that the kingdom of God is within you. That Divine light, lights every man that comes into this world.

Looked into the water and see the image, or the mirror, that is the allegorical substance likened unto man, Jesus the image of Good, God made into a icon, idol, along with the book of spells, (when took literal) that makes religious con-verts out of man, etc.............

Blessings, Zeke.

I understand religious dependency, I'm talking about the theory that would have Roman Pagans going into the land of Judaism and selling Peter & company on the belief in a Jesus man that you say didn't exist?

 

[Zeke]

This would equate with the 'thought-adjuster' or 'spirit-monitor', that actual fragment of divinity indwelling the soul, shared previously...for such illumines and communicates with the soul, guiding it along. It also likens to the 'buddhi-light', the 'informing principle' within consciousness in the Buddhist schools, and the 'atman' in the Vedic schools.

The 'Christ within' may more specifically equate to the higher mental body or 'higher Self' if we would differentiate such from the 'Spirit of God' in general, such depending on what school or tradition one chooses to affiliate with, or whatever way one feels best in so describing the 'Christ within'. The Infinite Spirit is 'universal' and 'individual', and is described variously according to different systems. Essentially, the 'Christ' is the 'light' and 'love' of God.


pj

Myriads of labels. One possibility, The natural birth three months short of a full season leaves one seeking out those final three to be fully birthed above and below, nine, a conscience being, three, being body, mind, and spirit being in perfect balance above,and below, all twelve firing in perfect harmony in the head, or Jerusalem, where the temple is being built into a new man.

Blessing, Zeke.

 

[Zeke]

I understand religious dependency, I'm talking about the theory that would have Roman Pagans going into the land of Judaism and selling Peter & company on the belief in a Jesus man that you say didn't exist?

The thing is though the gospels came about years after the facts, the facts are wobbly and few and far in-between, the interpolated texts and the political powers that be played into the excepted version, plus the shadows cast by the past cultures and Messiah figures, the time period Ante-Christians sects that were also persecuted by the Roman influence that most likely plagiarized the gospels from them, is certainly tipping the scale in favor of Jesus being a fabricated story.

The need to invent theologies, and doctrine to explain away the signs and wonders, and why they no longer happen in their assemblies is another glaring liability to this religious hoax, they happen within us, not to be observed by this worlds eyes.

Jesus said his followers would do greater things than him, so why do they only blow hot air, instead of raising the dead and healing all manner of sickness! because it was, and is a allegorical teaching, look in the water.

Blessings, Zeke.

 

[Caino]

The thing is though the gospels came about years after the facts, the facts are wobbly and few and far in-between, the interpolated texts and the political powers that be played into the excepted version, plus the shadows cast by the past cultures and Messiah figures, the time period Ante-Christians sects that were also persecuted by the Roman influence that most likely plagiarized the gospels from them, is certainly tipping the scale in favor of Jesus being a fabricated story.

The need to invent theologies, and doctrine to explain away the signs and wonders, and why they no longer happen in their assemblies is another glaring liability to this religious hoax, they happen within us, not to be observed by this worlds eyes.

Jesus said his followers would do greater things than him, so why do they only blow hot air, instead of raising the dead and healing all manner of sickness! because it was, and is a allegorical teaching, look in the water.

Blessings, Zeke.

Ok, I'm talking specifically about the earliest associates of the Jesus that you say was a myth. I realize that the gospels were written later, I want to know how it was that the Pagans convinced Peter to believe in a myth about knowing The Jesus that lead him to be crucified upside down for on the current site of the Vatican? Also the others that died for the man they claimed to have known first hand?

 

[freelight]

What if ?

What if ?

Ok, I'm talking specifically about the earliest associates of the Jesus that you say was a myth. I realize that the gospels were written later, I want to know how it was that the Pagans convinced Peter to believe in a myth about knowing The Jesus that lead him to be crucified upside down for on the current site of the Vatican? Also the others that died for the man they claimed to have known first hand?

Hi Caino,

If I may add,....I touched on this in post #2877, sharing 2 older threads on the Jesus-myth issue and reiterating that the UB does not hold a mythicist view about Jesus, but builds upon the reality of Jesus as attested by the biblical record (NT), so it would be difficult for a die-hard believer in the UB to accept that Jesus is a fictional/mythological figure or he would have to take Part 4 of the papers as 'religious fiction', but this might compromise the integrity of the revelators. - so it may be a 'shaky' area for some. I suspect it might for you as you consider the possibilities. The whole UB would be 'questionable' actually since the 'theology' is based on an underlying biblical foundation, even with its imperfections.

If Jesus is a mythological figure (maybe built up upon an actual man named Jesus that lived, but his story embellished, or the character of Jesus being built from other historical figures of that period like Apollonius of Tyana) this puts the Christian fundies here in a predicament, since even if only scraps of evidence exist for said person (the 'evidence' debatable)...it still comes back to faith. It would be 'faith' as well for a UB enthusiast in 'trusting' the record.

It would make Aimiel's belief in Jesus just as 'valid' as his caricature of 'Jebus', since both are religious fictional characters. - the 'charade' would be likened to a 'game of mirrors'.

In any case,....if Jesus is historical or not,....his teachings are still open to testing, if they have true ethical value, moral truth and real meaning for us. On this level, it might not matter if the 'messenger' was 'historical' or not, since the message of the 'personality' is of primary importance (although some would still debate this, and feel 'proof' of the messenger as an actual historical entity is integral to the dispensation of the message or revelation).



pj

 

[Zeke]

Ok, I'm talking specifically about the earliest associates of the Jesus that you say was a myth. I realize that the gospels were written later, I want to know how it was that the Pagans convinced Peter to believe in a myth about knowing The Jesus that lead him to be crucified upside down for on the current site of the Vatican? Also the others that died for the man they claimed to have known first hand?

I guess it also depends on who you believe was being persecuted, was it the roman historical version, or the mystical one since the foundation of the world! I haven't see enough actual proof to make a solid assertion on Peter or the rest.

The silence of the period speak loudest, Religious factoids, hear-say or maybe implied, don't satisfy me.

But that is my opinion, you believe for reasons of your own, we disagree on the historical Jesus so I realize that puts me at odds with the thread, so maybe I should just bow out, your plate is full enough dealing with the dirty birds leaving their dropping every where.


Blessings, Zeke.