The "L" in TULIP Means that Jesus is NOT Lord

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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Ask Mr. Religion said:
I hope others witness what Robert thinks passes for actual substantive discussion of a passage he claims in support of his views. Rather than interact substantively, he just merely re-states his view. Nana nana boo boo is not hermeneutics, Robert.

The plain fact stands. Hebrews 2:10 says "many", not each and every one. Hence, you must reconcile this "many" with your claim Hebrews 2:9 teaches each and every person. The only possible explanation will be that "everyone" is a gloss for the largess of God towards the "many" He will bring into the Kingdom through His active and passive obedience for the "many". Such a conclusion comports exactly with the full counsel of Scripture elsewhere.

I think Our Lord was quite clear when His own words were recorded by Matthew in Matthew 20:28. Do you think He meant to say "each and every person" but just sloppily used "many" instead? :AMR1:

Or perhaps Paul was also confused when he wrote Romans 5:15 and Romans 5:19. :AMR1:

Or maybe the writer of Hebrews was also in error writing Hebrews 9:28? :AMR1:

AMR
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The difference between me and you is that I accept all of the scriptures in the Bible. I have no trouble with any of it. I believe that all of it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth.

But you are in conflict with the scriptures. You make long post trying to explain away what words like "Whosoever" "Everyone" "World" mean, when in reality they mean what they say. Why don't you try accepting what the Bible says?
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Robert Pate said:
The difference between me and you is that I accept all of the scriptures in the Bible. I have no trouble with any of it. I believe that all of it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth.

But you are in conflict with the scriptures.
Why don't you try accepting what the Bible says?
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Great!!!! So now you believe and hold that Acts 13:48 shows that some are chosen to believe????
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Brother Ducky said:
Great!!!! So now you believe and hold that Acts 13:48 shows that some are chosen to believe????
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You do realize, don't you, that if your reading of this verse is correct, it proves the active reprobation by God of the lost, which you've been so coy about.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
The difference between me and you is that I accept all of the scriptures in the Bible. I have no trouble with any of it. I believe that all of it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth.

But you are in conflict with the scriptures. You make long post trying to explain away what words like "Whosoever" "Everyone" "World" mean, when in reality they mean what they say. Why don't you try accepting what the Bible says?
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Since when did you start believing the scriptures ? You teach salvation by works and the scriptures don't.
 
Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

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Robert Pate said:
I believe that all of it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth.
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Odd...

Robert Pate said:
The bible is not a perfect book. It was written by men.

The sole purpose of the bible is to be a witness to the work and person of Jesus Christ. If you use it for any other purpose than that you have misused it.

It was never intended to be a book to live by.
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Robert Pate said:
No, the bible is not a perfect work. This does not take away from it but rather enhances it. None of the men except for Christ were perfect. What makes you think that imperfect men can write a perfect book.

The bible does what it was intended to do, it reveals Christ and his gospel.
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Have you repented of the above?

AMR
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
musterion said:
This is the key point and your response is wrong. This issue directly impacts His justice. Indeed, the position you defend denies His justice, His honesty, His holiness and righteousness.

If God simply condemned sin generally - even the sin of unbelief - then there'd be no debate here. And in fact that's what the Bible says He does. That's a fact so it's not even under consideration.

The issue here is with what Calvinism says is the reason for the faithlessness of those who do not believe.

They do not believe because they CANNOT. You said so yourself.

They CANNOT because - again, according to your own words - God doesn't draw them. And why should He? According to you, He didn't even spill the blood of His Son for them so there'd be no point in drawing them to Christ. They CANNOT believe so they simply cannot be saved -- not by their own will but by God's will, by not electing them.

Condensed version:

According to Calvinism, does God know that those who never come to Christ CANNOT do so? Yes, of course He knows. It's His will they not come. If He wanted them to come, He'd have elected them.

According to the Bible, does God condemn those who do not come for CHOOSING to refuse Christ? Yes, it does.

A flat contradiction, created by Calvinists, that cannot be reconciled. Either Calvinism's depiction of God is false, or the Bible's is. They can't both be true.

This contradiction refutes Calvinism.
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Sorry for the delay. I wanted to ruminate, but just ate a lot over the holidays.

Perhaps I have been asking the question incorrectly. I want to know exactly how God's choice of some and not choosing others [passing over them in election] is unjust. What does the concept of justice demand that would not be fulfilled if God Almighty did what Calvinists propose he did, based on their interpretation of Scripture?
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Brother Ducky said:
Sorry for the delay. I wanted to ruminate, but just ate a lot over the holidays.

Perhaps I have been asking the question incorrectly. I want to know exactly how God's choice of some and not choosing others [passing over them in election] is unjust. What does the concept of justice demand that would not be fulfilled if God Almighty did what Calvinists propose he did, based on their interpretation of Scripture?
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Tell me that you don't see anything wrong with God saving "Some Certain Persons" and damning the rest to hell?
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Robert Pate said:
Tell me that you don't see anything wrong with God saving "Some Certain Persons" and damning the rest to hell?
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i see nothing wrong for God to Save some, and passing over others, not saving them. He is God, we are the creation. He can do what he wants within the limits of his nature.

But to the thrust of the above post...why is it unjust for God to save some and not others?
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Brother Ducky said:
i see nothing wrong for God to Save some, and passing over others, not saving them. He is God, we are the creation. He can do what he wants within the limits of his nature.

But to the thrust of the above post...why is it unjust for God to save some and not others?
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How do you know you're one of the elect?
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Brother Ducky said:
i see nothing wrong for God to Save some, and passing over others, not saving them. He is God, we are the creation. He can do what he wants within the limits of his nature.

But to the thrust of the above post...why is it unjust for God to save some and not others?
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Then you are much like your Calvinist God and is probably why you will never be saved.
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Robert Pate said:
Then you are much like your Calvinist God and is probably why you will never be saved.
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"I can't answer the question. OK, you are going to Hell."

Why not answer the question? You have said in perhaps dozens of posts and threads that God would be unjust if he saved some and not all. Make a case for it. You believe it, so what do you believe?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Brother Ducky said:
"I can't answer the question. OK, you are going to Hell."

Why not answer the question? You have said in perhaps dozens of posts and threads that God would be unjust if he saved some and not all. Make a case for it. You believe it, so what do you believe?
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I believe that God is just, merciful, righteous and is longsuffering towards fallen man and is not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

You Calvinist God does not fit this profile.

The God of the Bible "So loves the world, that he gives his only begotten Son to save the world" John 3:16.

Again, your Calvinist God does not fit this profile.

The God of Calvinism is devisive. He only provides salvation for some and then damns the rest to hell. There is no God in the Bible such as this.

You would rather listen to the words of a heretic than to God's word which is the Bible.
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Robert Pate said:
I believe that God is just, merciful, righteous and is longsuffering towards fallen man and is not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

You Calvinist God does not fit this profile.

The God of the Bible "So loves the world, that he gives his only begotten Son to save the world" John 3:16.

Again, your Calvinist God does not fit this profile.

The God of Calvinism is devisive. He only provides salvation for some and then damns the rest to hell. There is no God in the Bible such as this.

You would rather listen to the words of a heretic than to God's word which is the Bible.
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Still does not explain why God would be unjust if he were to save some and pass over others.
 
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