The Importance of Believing that Jesus Atoned for the Sins of the World

M

Man.0

Guest
Robert Pate said:
The Bible defines what the Gospel is, not me.

Paul said that the Gospel, "Is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes" Romans 1:16.

That is everyone that believes the Gospel.

To believe the Gospel is to believe that Jesus has defeated and has overcome the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.
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And what's the evidence that a person believes?
 
M

Man.0

Guest
Daniel1611 said:
Robert, we are in the minority. If you don't believe people were ever saved by works and you don't believe on 100 ways to be saved in the Bible, you are in the minority on TOL. Thankfully, I haven't met many Christians in person who claim to believe in different ways to be saved. It was faith alone from Adam onward. Period.
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Where does works have its place in your theology? Or is there no place for it ?
 
Daniel1611

Daniel1611

New member
Man.0 said:
Where does works have its place in your theology? Or is there no place for it ?
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You need to do the works first and foremost because God said so. That's reason enough.

Second, we should do the works because we care about God, others and ourselves .

Third, to live a life pleasing to God

And fourth, God will chastise his children in this earth when we don't obey.

But, if we believe in our heart and confess with our mouth that we believe on the LORD Jesus Christ, we don't go to hell when we don't do the works because we are saved. He gives unto us eternal life and we will never perish.
 
Daniel1611

Daniel1611

New member
Man.0 said:
God knows the heart. But will not evidence of belief/faith be manifest in your actions - namely, obedience? Or does one only need to 'believe'?
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There is not a just man upon the earth that doeth good and sinneth not. If a man obeys the whole law yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Show me obedient people.
 
M

Man.0

Guest
Daniel1611 said:
You need to do the works first and foremost because God said so. That's reason enough.

Second, we should do the works because we care about God, others and ourselves .

Third, to live a life pleasing to God

And fourth, God will chastise his children in this earth when we don't obey.

But, if we believe in our heart and confess with our mouth that we believe on the LORD Jesus Christ, we don't go to hell when we don't do the works because we are saved. He gives unto us eternal life and we will never perish.
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So we are saved instantly 'if we believe in our heart and confess with our mouth that we believe on the LORD Jesus Christ'? What about overcoming and enduring - what part does that play? Didn't Jesus say 'the one who overcomes, the same shall be saved ' (Matthew 24:13; Revelation 3:5) ?

It appears you've been deceived by a false gospel.
 
M

Man.0

Guest
Daniel1611 said:
There is not a just man upon the earth that doeth good and sinneth not. If a man obeys the whole law yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Show me obedient people.
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So you're saying or implying that it's impossible to obey? If its impossible why did Jesus tell us to 'be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect'? And why is it written, 'Be holy, because I am holy' (1 Peter 1:16)? Why would Christ command us to do that which is impossible?
 
Daniel1611

Daniel1611

New member
Man.0 said:
So we are saved instantly 'if we believe in our heart and confess with our mouth that we believe on the LORD Jesus Christ'? What about overcoming and enduring - what part does that play? Didn't Jesus say 'the one who overcomes, the same shall be saved ' (Matthew 24:13; Revelation 3:5) ?

It appears you've been deceived by a false gospel.
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Jesus said "He that believeth in me hath everlasting life."

Those enduring to the end, if you read the context, are Christians in the tribulation period. If they can endure it, they are physically saved when Christ returns. If they die during the tribulation, they still go to heaven.

Read John 3, Acts 16, or pretty much any book in the Bible and salvation is clearly by faith alone. I'm quite frankly tired of debating the fundamentals of Christianity like salvation by faith or the deity of Christ. I'm interested in discussing various things with saved Christians. I'm tired of debating unsaved pretenders who are far outside of orthodox Christianity and who like it that way. Stay ignorant if you want. I'm interested in discussions with Christians, not arguing with Catholics, Jehovahs Witnesses or Jews or whatever unsaved, works salvationist group you belong to.
 
Daniel1611

Daniel1611

New member
Man.0 said:
So you're saying or implying that it's impossible to obey? If its impossible why did Jesus tell us to 'be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect'? And why is it written, 'Be holy, because I am holy' (1 Peter 1:16)? Why would Christ command us to do that which is impossible?
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Did I say it's not possible? No. The Bible says that no one does it.
 
A

aikido7

BANNED
Banned
The blood atonement theology is essential for everyday Christians. They have the desperate need to be forgiven and if all the suffering for this forgiveness is placed on Jesus, then so much the better.

They seem to want to go to heaven rather than take Jesus' mission and preaching seriously.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
But not all are "In Christ". Many are still dead in tresspasses and sins. They have not entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:3.
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You say that their sins have been remitted or expiated.

However, Peter makes it plain that only those who 'believe" have their sins remitted or expiated:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).​

Your ideas about unbelievers having their sins expiated is easily shown to be in error. Those who do not believe will die in their sins, as witnessed by the following words of the Lord Jesus:

"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:24).​

How can anyone die in their sins if those sins have already been been expiated?
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
The Bible defines what the Gospel is, not me.

Paul said that the Gospel, "Is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes" Romans 1:16.

That is everyone that believes the Gospel.

To believe the Gospel is to believe that Jesus has defeated and has overcome the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.
Click to expand...

False comments !
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Jerry Shugart said:
You say that their sins have been remitted or expiated.

However, Peter makes it plain that only those who 'believe" have their sins remitted or expiated:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).​

Your ideas about unbelievers having their sins expiated is easily shown to be in error. Those who do not believe will die in their sins, as witnessed by the following words of the Lord Jesus:

"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:24).​

How can anyone die in their sins if those sins have already been been expiated?
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Their sins are imputed back to them in the judgment, Romans 4:7, 8.
 
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