Right Divider
Body part
You're talking to a deaf person Jerry. Another one to put on your ignore list.
ECT The House of Israel and the House of Judah Will Be a Blessing
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
TweetyBird
New member
The NT shows that the promised land pointed to a new and better one. That is what the NT confirms. All prophecy was fulfilled pertaining the Law and Prophets to Israel and about Jesus Christ. The NT prophecies are about the return of Christ, with no mention of a promised land, other than the more glorious land.
This is a prophecy about Jesus Christ:
Isaiah 62:4
Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
If you are right then we must somehow believe that at one time the Lord Jesus was "termed desolate."
You are weird!
TweetyBird
New member
When He died on the cross for our sins and was forsaken by God. Does that ring a bell?
Now He is the Husband [Beulah] of the Bride, the church, His body, the Sheep of His pasture.
Right Divider
Body part
Forsaken and desolate are NOT identical scripture twister.When He died on the cross for our sins and was forsaken by God. Does that ring a bell?
beloved57
Well-known member
Abrahams descendants Israel according to the flesh are not the children of God, no promises to them but hell! Rom Rom 9:8
Interplanner
Well-known member
More to the point: the 'land' which the NT (Rom 4) says the promises are about is 'the world to come.' That would be the NHNE. Once again, the NT has no view that anything needs to happen in Judea, no Davidic theocracy resembling what was once there. Instead it is about the whole world in fellowship with Christ and his people, of which the church already tastes.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This promise in regard to the land which the Lord made to David has not been fulfilled:
"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).
"And move no more"! This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:
"For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up"(Jer.24:6).
"And not pluck them up"! The prophet Amos says the same thing:
"And I will bring again the captivity of my people ...And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God" (Amos 9:14,15).
Therefore we can understand that the Lord has made promises to David in respect to the promised land that have not yet been fulfilled. There has never been a time when the children of Israel have been brought back to the promised land and have not "been pulled up out of their land" (unless that is being fulfilled now).
TweetyBird
New member
Jesus was not only made desolate and forsaken by God, but He was also made desolate by mankind.
Desolate
H8077
שׁממה שׁממה
shemâmâh shimâmâh
shem-aw-maw', shee-mam-aw'
Feminine of H8076; devastation; figuratively astonishment: - (laid, X most) desolate (-ion), waste.
Isaiah 52
Behold, my servant shall deal prudently,
he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
14
As many were astonied [H8074] at thee;
his visage was so marred more than any man,
and his form more than the sons of men:
15
so shall he sprinkle many nations;
the kings shall shut their mouths at him:
for that which had not been told them shall they see;
and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
Isaiah 52:14
As many were astonied [=H8074 at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
H8074
שׁמם
shâmêm
shaw-mame'
A primitive root; to stun (or intransitively grow numb), that is, devastate or (figuratively) stupefy (both usually in a passive sense): - make amazed, be astonied, (be an) astonish (-ment), (be, bring into, unto, lay, lie, make) desolate (-ion, places), be destitute, destroy (self), (lay, lie, make) waste, wonder.
Isaiah 53
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant,
and as a root out of a dry ground:
he hath no form nor comeliness;
and when we shall see him,
there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3
He is despised and rejected of men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief:
and we hid as it were our faces from him;
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs,
and carried our sorrows:
yet we did esteem him stricken,
smitten of God, and afflicted.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied:
by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities.
Psalm 22
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
why art thou so far from helping me,
and from the words of my roaring?
2
O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not;
and in the night season, and am not silent.
But I am a worm, and no man;
a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
7
All they that see me laugh me to scorn:
they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8
He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him:
let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
9
But thou art he that took me out of the womb:
thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother’s breasts.
10
I was cast upon thee from the womb:
thou art my God from my mother’s belly.
11
Be not far from me; for trouble is near;
for there is none to help.
12
Many bulls have compassed me:
strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13
They gaped upon me with their mouths,
as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14
I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint:
my heart is like wax;
it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15
My strength is dried up like a potsherd;
and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws;
and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16
For dogs have compassed me:
the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me:
they pierced my hands and my feet.
17
I may tell all my bones:
they look and stare upon me.
18
They part my garments among them,
and cast lots upon my vesture.
19
But be not thou far from me, O Lord:
O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20
Deliver my soul from the sword;
my darling from the power of the dog.
21
Save me from the lion’s mouth:
for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
TweetyBird
New member
Scripture says that it has been fulfilled:
God said that if Israel got all the land promised, then they would have six cities of refuge.
Therefore, I command you, saying, 'You shall set aside three cities for yourself.' "If the LORD your God enlarges your territory, just as He has sworn to your fathers, and gives you all the land which He promised to give your fathers— if you carefully observe all this commandment which I command you today, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in His ways always—then you shall add three more cities for yourself, besides these three. (Deuteronomy 19:7-9)
Joshua 20:7-9 lists six cities of refuge - Kadesh, Shechem, Hebron, Bezer, Ramoth, and Golan.
So the LORD gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. (Joshua 21:43-45)
Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. "It shall come about that just as all the good words which the LORD your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you. (Joshua 23:14-15)
28 Then Joshua dismissed the people, each to his inheritance.
The promise was fulfilled to David:
Sam 8:3 David defeated Hadadezer...as he went to restore his rule at the River [Euphrates].
1 Kings 4:21 Now Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the [Euphrates] River to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt; they brought tribute and served Solomon
2 Chr 9:26 And he was the ruler over all the kings from the Euphrates River even to the land of the Philistines, and as far as the border of Egypt.
After Israel came back from Babylon and joined with the remnant of all 12 twelves into one nation:
Neh 9:8 And Thou didst find Abraham's heart faithful before Thee, and didst make a covenant with him to give him the land of the Canaanite, of the Hittite and the Amorite, of the Perizzite, the Jebusite, and the Girgashite-- to give it to his descendants. And Thou hast fulfilled Thy promise, for Thou art righteous.
God said personally to Jeremiah that the land promises were fulfilled:
Jer 11:5 in order to confirm the oath which I swore to your forefathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day. Then I answered and said, Amen, O LORD.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
There has never been a time when the children of Israel have been brought back to the promised land and have not "been pulled up out of their land" (unless that is being fulfilled now).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Do you not know the difference between "forsaken" and desolate?
Your ideas do nothing but undermine the Majesty of the Lord Jesus. You say that the Lord was "desolate" at one time and on another thread you said that the Lord Jesus in the past was a "curse" to the Gentiles.
You are weird and your ideas are insulting to the Lord Jesus Christ.
beloved57
Well-known member
The children of israel, Abrahams physical descendants, are not Gods Children Rom 9:8 !
TweetyBird
New member
The Scriptures say it was fulfilled, by God's own words. Why do you resist them? Are you not aware that for the land promises to continue Israel would have to be 100% compliant to the Mosaic Law? They failed and the covenant with them was broken. Because God is faithful, He fulfilled the land promises made to David in Christ - the Perfect - in whom there is rest, food, drink and eternal life. Just as He fulfilled the promise that Jesus would come from the loins of David - which was fulfilled only in part humanly/literally. Or don't you see that? That is what you are missing.
TweetyBird
New member
What I have stated is consistent with Scripture. I quoted the verses. Desolate means forsaken or did you not read the definitions of the words that I provided?
Interplanner
Well-known member
The NHNE doesn't count to JS.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course it counts to me. However, unlike you, I know that the land which the Lord gave to Jacob is on this earth and not somehere else.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You are wrong again because Paul was a physical descendant of Abraham and he is a child of God.
You are totally confused!