ECT The House of Israel and the House of Judah Will Be a Blessing
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
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TweetyBird
New member
Nah, He laid down His life for me, I am one of His sheep. His sheep are His body, there are not two entities in Christ, but one new man - Jew and Gentile are equal, not divided. You are placing a division where there is none. The next you are going to say is that the Jews are saved by keeping the covenant God gave to them under Moses, like John Hagee teaches. They call it "Dual Covenant Theology".
Matthew 25:32
and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
He died for my sins on the cross and his stripes I am healed from sin. He is my Shepherd and the Bishop of my soul.
1 Peter 2
23 who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
All those that come to Christ for salvation are part of His fold, of whom He is the Shepherd.
John 10
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
He shed His blood for me, I am one of His sheep.
Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Paul states that all Gentiles in Christ are heirs together with the Jews to receive ALL the promises of God to the Jews. We are all, Jew and Gentile, the sheep of His pasture, the children of God, the children of Light. You are forcing a separation where there is none. Ephesians is an amazing book. It shows how the Jews and Gentiles are equal in every area of belief in Christ Jesus, every single promise. It's sad that you don't see it, because that is the Good News.
Eph 1
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 and hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Eph 2
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 for through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Eph 3
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Eph 4
3 endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 but speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 from whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Eph 5
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2 and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
24 .... even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. ---- please note the reference to sheep - without spot or blemish - from the OT Covenant.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 6
9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
Right Divider
Body part
You're too confused for me to continue to attempt to converse with you.
But a few comments before I put you on ignore:
- There is NOW one new man.
- There was Israel and there will be again in the FUTURE.
- I do NOT believe in ANY sort of "Dual Covenant Theology" and believe that John Hagee is a false teacher and quite frankly, an false teacher of the worst sort.
- The body of Christ does NOT need a covenant of any kind and are saved by trusting in God through the blood of Christ.
- Gentiles were always welcome to JOIN with Israel, go read about it.
- TODAY, via the gospel of the grace of God, Israel can JOIN with Gentiles and be saved.
- In the body of Christ there is BUT NOW no distinction.
You are just another one that throws all scripture in a blender and makes a complete mess out of it.
TweetyBird
New member
Maybe He will bring Solomon in to judge how to divide the "baby" .... uhh ... the body. We all know how that worked out .... :rotfl:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
God never made any promises to the jews that are Abrahams descendants according to the flesh, because they are not the children of God Rom 9:8
Right Divider
Body part
The problem is if they think that those are the only words that Jesus gave to anyone.
Paul received a whole bunch more "red words" after the ascension.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This promise was given to all the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob:
"Blessed be the LORD, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by the hand of Moses his servant" (1 Ki.8:56).
All of the people who made up the nation of Israel were the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and they all partook the rest spoken of in this verse.
Right Divider
Body part
B57 is one of the worst fallacious "thinkers" here on TOL.
I'd highly recommend him as a candidate for your ignore list.
TweetyBird
New member
The book of Ephesians and Gal 3, Isaiah 49, Isa 54, Isa 56, Isa 59.
Matthew 26:28
for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mark 14:24
And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Luke 22:20
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
1 Corinthians 11:25
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
Hebrews 7:22
by so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I can find nothing there nor in any of the verses which you quoted which says that "all Gentiles in Christ are heirs together with the Jews to receive ALL the promises of God to the Jews."
Please quote a verse which says that.
TweetyBird
New member
Eph 3, which I quoted and high lighted a few posts back and Gal 3. The promise is Christ, the Seed is Christ, eternal life is in Christ, the promised land is Heavenly, a holy city built by God. All the nations will be blessed by the nation of Israel - that is the coming of Christ Jesus, the purpose of and the fulfillment of the nation of Israel and the old covenant/Law. All have been translated into His Kingdom when they believe. A saved Jew is in that Kingdom right along with Gentiles, they are not going to leave it behind to go find an earthly city on the corrupt and cursed earth. They are joined with the Gentiles in a Heavenly Kingdom and do not seek an earthly one - Heb 11. The promises are BETTER in the NC for all in Christ, NOW and for forevermore. The land promises have been fulfilled physically, per God as spoken through His OT saints.Spiritually, the land promises are fulfilled in Christ. That is why He is the Temple and the foundation of a spiritual habitation of His body, Jew and Gentile as one new man in Him.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That is ridiculous! The promised land is not heavenly since it is the land which the Lord gave to Jacob:
"Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land...And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have...Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (Ez.37:25-27).
Here we read that the Lord will set His sanctuary in the midst of the Israelites for ever. And the Israelites "shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob." Therefore, in the future the Lord will set His sanctuary in the midst of the children of Israel for evermore at the time they will dwell in the land that God gave to Jacob.
Are you really so ignorant of the teaching found in the Bible that you do not even know that the land which the Lord gave Jacob is on this earth and not in heaven?
TweetyBird
New member
It's a spiritual blessing in Christ, not a physical one. It's part of the mystery. Paul said that all the blessings and promises to Abraham are fulfilled in Christ. Not one verse in the NT refers to the land promises, because they were all fulfilled per Neh 9:8,9. According to Heb 11, the OT saints are no longer looking for a physical promised land - even if they had the chance to go back to it, they would not go - their eyes were set on an Heavenly and a city built by God. The earth is going to be destroyed when Christ returns - which is why the NT speaks of that and not a land on earth for the nation of Israel [which no longer exists].
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
No he didn't.
You prove that you are unable to understand the most simple things written in the Scriptures.
How can anyone trust your judgment when you insist that the promised land is in heaven:
Everyone who knows about the promised land knows that it is the land which the Lord gave to Jacob. That land is on this earth.
But you say that it is in heaven!
TweetyBird
New member
It WAS on earth at one time. The nation of Israel lived in that land and God said what the land promised to Abraham was fulfilled. That is why we all seek an Heavenly and a city built by God. We are aliens and strangers on this earth - Jew and Gentile. All is fulfilled in Christ. His death and resurrection satisfied ALL the promises of Abraham, the Law of Moses, and David in a better way for all eternity, no longer contingent on the obedience of mankind, but by the grace, mercy, love and forgiveness of our Lord and Savior. The NT speaks nothing of land promises because they were all fulfilled. Israel is still in her land and still in unbelief and rebellion. The only way for a Jewish person to come into the fullness of the promises to Abraham is to believe on Christ. There will be no mass "exodus" of Israel to the cross or some promised land on this wicked and cursed earth - TODAY if you hear His voice, not some future day. If you believe that "all Israel" will be saved, then God will need to give salvation to all of Israel, past, present and future. Those who died in their sins and unbelief will not be saved and neither will every Jewish person from now until eternity. They have to choose Him, TODAY.
Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 1
46 And Mary said,
My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47
and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48
For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden:
for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
49
For he that is mighty hath done to me great things;
and holy is his name.
50
And his mercy is on them that fear him
from generation to generation.
51
He hath shewed strength with his arm;
he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52
He hath put down the mighty from their seats,
and exalted them of low degree.
53
He hath filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich he hath sent empty away.
54
He hath holpen his servant Israel,
in remembrance of his mercy;
55
as he spake to our fathers,
to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel;
for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69
and hath raised up an horn of salvation for us
in the house of his servant David;
70
as he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets,
which have been since the world began:
71
that we should be saved from our enemies,
and from the hand of all that hate us;
72
to perform the mercy promised to our fathers,
and to remember his holy covenant;
73
the oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74
that he would grant unto us,
that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies
might serve him without fear,
75
in holiness and righteousness before him,
all the days of our life.
76
And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest:
for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
77
to give knowledge of salvation unto his people
by the remission of their sins,
78
through the tender mercy of our God;
whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
79
to give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the way of peace.
John 8
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
The promises to Abraham are the Lord Jesus Christ and in Him:
Acts 3
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
The Blessing of Abraham is Jesus:
Gal 3
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This promise in regard to the land which the Lord made to David has not been fulfilled:
"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).
"And move no more"! This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:
"For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up"(Jer.24:6).
"And not pluck them up"! The prophet Amos says the same thing:
"And I will bring again the captivity of my people ...And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God" (Amos 9:14,15).
Therefore we can understand that the Lord has made promises to David in respect to the promised land that have not yet been fulfilled. There has never been a time when the children of Israel have been brought back to the promised land and have not "been pulled up out of their land" (unless that is being fulfilled now).
Your idea that the land which the Lord gave to Jacob is in heaven is just downright silly!
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