The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[Kevin]

Freak,

Kevin,, answer the question posed to you by me...

Let me get this straight... you want me to list "false doctrines" that I "hold". Well, Freak, I don't believe that I hold any false doctrines, so there's nothing for me to list.

Besides, there's not much point debating with you. You are good at starting topics and then not really participating a whole lot in them. You are here to speak your mind, not address the points and questions posed by other people. A debate is not a one way thing.

A perfect example is how you will drop by in this thread from time to time and post something like "Jesus saves, not H2O", and then leave for a while. Even though nobody on this entire thread (that I've seen) has EVER sated that water saves, you come in and drop in statements like that, when that's not we are saying at all. But regardless of what is said, you continue to post statements like that.

 

[Freak]

Kevin,

Do you not believe water baptism is a essential element for salvation? Don't play word mental games with me. I know what you teach. You teach heresy, plain and simple. You have yet to deal with the simple verses on my very first post of this thread. Now go back and deal with them.

 

[Kevin]

Freak,

Do you not believe water baptism is a essential element for salvation? Don't play word mental games with me. I know what you teach. You teach heresy, plain and simple

Blah blah blah. Whenever you can back up your claims, that what I teach is heresy, let me know.

You have yet to deal with the simple verses on my very first post of this thread. Now go back and deal with them.

You're so blind. Go back and read and you will find that they were not only dealt with, but also there were points and questions that were raised that you will not deal with. Dare you ever answer them?

 

[Freak]

Let's begin with John 10:9, Kevin.

Jesus said He was the door (essentially the way) and one had to enter through the door to be saved.

The question I ask you is this: Was Jesus missing something when He made that claim?

 

[Kevin]

Freak

Let's begin with John 10:9, Kevin.

Jesus said He was the door (essentially the way) and one had to enter through the door to be saved.

The question I ask you is this: Was Jesus missing something when He made that claim?

Answer: Of course not.

Now it's my turn.

1 John 2:4
4) He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

My question to you is this: Will a person who does not keep Christ's commandments enter through the door to salvation (Christ)?

 

[Freak]

Answer: Keep the commandments (which Jesus essentially summed up in that we ought to love God) is something we do out of love for Jesus not to attain salvation. We were dead in our sins prior to Jesus saving us (Eph. 2:2). Jesus saves not commandments, right, Kevin?

 

[Kevin]

Freak,

Answer: Keep the commandments (which Jesus essentially summed up in that we ought to love God) is something we do out of love for Jesus not to attain salvation. We were dead in our sins prior to Jesus saving us (Eph. 2:2). Jesus saves not commandments, right, Kevin?

You didn't answer my question. Answer it. I answered your question now answer mine. I didn't ask why we obey His commandments. I asked: Will a person who does not keep Christ's commandments enter through the door to salvation (Christ)? Yes or No?

I directly answered your question, now how about the same courtesy to me.

 

[Freak]

You're putting the cart before the horse, Kevin.

Jesus comes first then obedience. That's the answer.

 

[Kevin]

Freak,

This is a perfect example of why debating you is useless. You can't answer simple questions. It's so easy to show the error of your teachings. If you taught the truth, it shouldn't be a problem to answer this simple yes or no question.

It's like when Jesus asked the Pharisees a question and they couldn't answer Him. They knew they were wrong. The truth has an answer for everything, and you can't seem to answer this question... and it's not a hard question either.

You can sing it, but you can't bring it. It was quite easy to directly answer your question, but you can't answer my simple little question. The truth is obvious, and you can't answer to it.

Let me know when you are ready to answer my question. Until then, I have no reason to take you seriously.

 

[Freak]

I'll tell you what. You have a problem with Jesus then.

Jesus said clearly: I am the door anyone who enters through me will be saved.

I believe this. Apparently you don't!

That is sad.

By the way, the truth will prevail. You lose!

 

[Kevin]

Freak,

Jesus said clearly: I am the door anyone who enters through me will be saved.

I believe this. Apparently you don't!

Actually, I've already agreed that Jesus is the door. Show me where I said I didn't believe this.

By the way, the truth will prevail. You lose!

Nope the loser is the one who can't answer a question (that would be you) that a child can answer. Everybody can plainly see who can answer the questions and who can't.

Somebody with the truth could answer it. You can't answer it. You make it too easy, Freak.

You sidestepped me at the begining of the thread, and you are still doing it now. I understand why you can't answer... for how could a false doctrine possibly answer the truth? It can't... just as everybody can plainly see.

 

[Freak]

Kevin,

You said: Actually, I've already agreed that Jesus is the door.

Then you agree Jesus is the only thing we need to attain salvation. Jesus and just Jesus. Then after salvation one ought to be water baptized, right?

 

[Kevin]

Freak,

Then you agree Jesus is the only thing we need to attain salvation. Jesus and just Jesus. Then after salvation one ought to be water baptized, right?

I'll answer this as soon as you answer my question. Like I said earlier, a debate is a TWO way thing. I was nice enough to directly answer your question, yet you avoid mine. That's not the way it works. If you are going to run away from my questions, then there is no point debating you. I'm not going to play this game where I answer your questions only to have you run from mine.

Answer my question, and I'll happily answer yours... again.

So what's the problem, Freak? Will you answer or not?

 

[Freak]

Kevin,

Your question does not make any sense! Rephrase it!

 

[Kevin]

Freak,

Bearing in mind the verse that I quoted:

1 John 2:4
4) He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Will a person who does not keep Christ's commandments (a liar) be saved?

Is that better?

 

[Freak]

Kevin, when one is saved you are automatically justified meaning right before God. I'm in Christ (Ephesians 2), Christ in me fulfills the commandments. Remember, Paul tells us that we can be confident in that the work Christ has begun He will complete (see Phil. 1:6). Do you believe this?

 

[c.moore]

Freak Hello

You are doing a good job,specially i am not alone in that cart before the horse issue, watch out you might have to repent like me

God bless you Evangelist freak.

 

[Kevin]

c.moore,

Kevin Hello

You are doing a good job

Why thank you! Just kidding... I know you meant your comments to Freak. Couldn't pass it up.

i am not alone in that cart before the horse issue

If anybody puts the cart before the horse, it's you guys. I teach that both belief and baptism come before salvation, and that's exactly what Jesus taught. In Mark 16:16, Jesus put BOTH belief and baptism BEFORE salvation, which is EXACTLY what I teach.

You guys on the other hand say that one believes and is saved and THEN one is baptized, but that's NOT what Christ says. It is you guys who put the cart before the horse, not me.

 

[Freak]

Kevin, re-read John 10:9.

 

[Kevin]

Freak,

Kevin, when one is saved you are automatically justified meaning right before God. I'm in Christ (Ephesians 2), Christ in me fulfills the commandments. Remember, Paul tells us that we can be confident in that the work Christ has begun He will complete (see Phil. 1:6). Do you believe this?

Philippians 1:6 is not saying that Christ Himself keeps His own commandments for us. That is simply saying that Christ works within us and will continue to do so until the day of Jesus Christ (Judgement Day). I can't believe you actually think that Christ would give US commands to obey and then turn right around and do them for us. That's ridiculous, and totally defeats the purpose of Him giving them to us in the first place. Observe the following scriptures:

John 14:15
15) If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Who did Christ tell to keep His commandments? Himself or man? MAN. Do you think "you" is referring to Christ?!

John 8:51
51) "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.

If WHO keeps my commandments, they shall never see death? Who? ANYONE. MAN. For your crazy idea to be true, that verse would read, "Most assuredly, I say to you, if I keep My word, he shall never see death." Ludicrous.

John 14:23-24
23) Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24) He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me."

When it says "he will keep my word", who is "he" referring to? MAN, NOT Christ!

In Rev. 2:4-5, it speaks about how the church of Ephesus has left their first love. In verse 5, Christ tells them to repent and do the first works. Christ told THEM to do the works, NOT Himself!

And what happened in Matt. 25: 41-46? Those people are going to be sent to Hell because they did not do good works unto man. What, did Christ forget to do their works for them? Of course not, because the commandments were given to US to obey, not Himself.

Now, I ask you again, according to 1John 2:4, will a person who does not keep Christ's commandments (a liar) be saved? Yes or no? Simple question.

Kevin, re-read John 10:9.

What, do you disagree with me that both belief AND baptism come BEFORE salvatioin in Mark 16:16? Re-read Mark 16:16. As I said earlier, I teach exactly what Christ said in Mark 16:16, that one must believe and be baptized to be saved. You guys are the ones to put the cart before the horse.