The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[Evangelion]

Agape -

"Who can forbid water, that these might be baptised, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have?"

That's what Peter said.

 

[HardCoreFundy2]

Originally posted by Freak
Let's focus on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, instead of baptism.

AMEN

 

[agape]

Originally posted by Evangelion
Agape -

"Who can forbid water, that these might be baptised, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have?"

That's what Peter said.

Acts 11:15-17:
And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST

Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

That's what Peter TRULY said...hence, water = spiritual water. Where's your spiritual insight?

 

[Evangelion]

Ummm... "Who can forbid water, that these might be baptised, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have?"

They had already received the Holy Spirit.

Now he calls for water.

 

[c.moore]

Hello Kevin

I asked :Where does it say this about the new water baptism after the cross?

You said: Matthew 28:19-20, where Jesus was talking to His apostles (man), and commanded them to:


Make disciples of all nations

Baptize in the name of the Fahter, Son, and Holy Spirit

Teach people to observe all things that Jesus had commanded them


This is what I've been trying to tell you. Jesus told MAN to baptize, not Himself! Knowing that man cannot perform Spirit baptism, there's no way it could be the "ONE" baptism spoken of in Ephesians 4:5, because Spirit baptism was never commanded of man.


Quote c.moore
You missed my question I asked to show me the NEW baptism (after) the death of Christ not the John the baptist water baptism or old baptism.
Plus there was no mention of any word new, unless I need new glasses.

In Eph 4:5 i see no where mention about water before or after in the whole chapter, unless you are one of those people who just add water to every verse mention baptism or baptized.

Kevin, you should think more on being in the presence and staying in the spirit of God rather than fear keeping all the commandments!

Just follow Jesus Spirit and the rest will be added.

Be led by the spirit !
Don`t be led by commandments.

You said:The Gentiles were baptized with water in the name of the Lord in Acts 10:47-48.

Quote c.moore
Ohhhh , so that is the new baptism that now Gentiles can get baptized.

You said: That Jesus had accomplished what He set out to do: die for us that we may live in Him.

Quote c.moore
does that mean Ro:6:22: But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Ro:6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Ro:6:18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Ro:6:8: Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Ro:6:9: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Ro:6:10: For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Ro:6:11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


You said :Jesus gave the commandment of baptism because baptism does the following for us:


It frees us from sin (Romans 6:6,7, Acts 2:38)

It makes us dead to sin and alive to God (Romans 6:11)

It allows us to walk in the newness of life - being reborn (Romans 6:4)

It puts us in Christ (Romans 6:3, Galatians 3:27)


Quote c.moore

I thought the death of Jesus saying it is FINISHED did all that??????????????????????????

You said:But now that we know the free gift has come to ALL men, we know that not all men will be saved. But why not? The free gift had come to "ALL MEN", right? Because, as I've been saying this entire time, there are requirements that need to be met BEFORE one can have that saving grace.



Quote c.moore
Are you saying that before you recieve a christmas GIFT or a birthday GIFT or a suprise GIFT you most have requirements that need to be met before one can have the gift???????????

What is you definition of a GiFT????

When I give out free tracts on the street it is a free gift to people , and all they have to do is just take it .

Is it by you they have to qualify for the tract, or meet requirements, because if that the case I wouldn`t want to go witnessing with you, and I don`t think anyone else will want to give out tract with you, it to hard to recieve what is free can you see?????

I know you said all men would go to heaven if it was a free gift , but it is free and all men who recieve will go to heaven, it`s just that simple. the thing about this is that all men don`t what to have a relationship with Jesus, just like everybody don`t take my tracts even when I shove it in thier face.
Even if I was giving out thousand dollar bills , not everyone would take one,there is always fools, and the sinner are fools, and blinded not to take the free salvation gift, which is trust in Jesus and repentance praise God.


You said:Baptism is what frees us from sin, makes us alive to God, let's us walk in the newness of life (reborn), and puts us in Christ (see my above list for verses).


Quote c.moore

NOOOOO Kevin , Jesus is what saves us!
The Blood of Jesus is what Cleans us
The repentance is what makes us righteous and just and A saint and free us from sins ROM 6 is that newness of life , not the newness of water baptism.

The eternal life is through Jesus , not water baptism was on the cross, it is Jesus who was on the cross.

Jesus is the way , not water baptism ritual is the way.

Jesus is the truth, not water baptism is the truth ritual works

Jesus is the life only ,not water baptismal is the life we don`t live or walk all our life in a fish tank or swimming pool .



You said :There aren't two water baptisms, because John's baptism was made void by the new one that Jesus istituted in Matt. 28:19-20.


Quote c.moore

I guess Jesus must have been resurrected already when he said this in Matt 28 is this true??

I don`t see the word void, or cancelled in the verse or new.


Let God bless you

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by Freak
Kevin,

You stated:

Jesus gave the commandment of baptism because baptism does the following for us:


It frees us from sin (Romans 6:6,7, Acts 2:38)

It makes us dead to sin and alive to God (Romans 6:11)

It allows us to walk in the newness of life - being reborn (Romans 6:4)

It puts us in Christ (Romans 6:3, Galatians 3:27)


Let's focus on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, instead of baptism.

AMEN ,LET IT BE! :thumb:




God bless you and your wife

ps .check out my web site freak, and the video`s are getting ready to be down loaded on my web praise God.

 

[agape]

Originally posted by Evangelion
Ummm... "Who can forbid water, that these might be baptised, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have?"

They had already received the Holy Spirit. Now he called for water.

Ummm...."Forasmuch then as God GAVE them the like gift as [he did] unto us, WHO BELIEVED on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

They WERE already baptized with the holy spirit and therefore he NEVER called for water. "...BUT ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost...."

 

[Freak]

Keep up the good work my brother C. Moore.

Elizabeth and I were able to get the video and watch it. It looked great! Praise God! We should be able to put it up on our website too.

Be praying for us as we go to Trinidad here in a month to hold healing/deliverance/evangelistic meetings.

Bless you my brother and family in Christ our Mighty King!

 

[agape]

Forget about baptism??

Forget about baptism??

In order for one to focus on Jesus Christ as the Author and Finisher of Faith, one needs to be baptized with the holy spirit. So I don't see how one can forget about baptism, unless it's "water" baptism.

 

[Freak]

Agape,

The focus should be on Jesus, right?

 

[Evangelion]

Agape -

• 
  Acts 10:47.
  Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

They've already received the Holy Spirit. Now Peter says that they are to be baptised in water.

This stands in direct contradiction to your theology.

 

[Anastasis]

Ev,

It looks like Peter agree with Paul:

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


and himself:

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


BAPTISM is essential for salvation! God's salvationplan which includes nessecity of baptism and judgement does not suit men, they want to "improve" his solution.

 

[Evangelion]

Right on, brother. :up:

 

[Freak]

:nono:

 

[Apollos]

Focus on Jesus...

Focus on Jesus...

Is it possible to "focus" on Jesus and ignore what Jesus said?
Of course not!!

Jesus said He was the Son of God. Can we ignore that?

Jesus said He was "the way, the truth and life". Can we ignore that?

Jesus also said, "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved."

Those who choose to ignore that plain and simple truth will choose to ignore that!

Some people need to get their "focus" fixed!!

 

[agape]

Originally posted by Anastasis
Ev,

It looks like Peter agree with Paul:

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


and himself:

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


BAPTISM is essential for salvation! God's salvationplan which includes nessecity of baptism and judgement does not suit men, they want to "improve" his solution.

I agree, baptism with the HOLY SPIRIT is definitely essential for salvation. :up:

 

[agape]

Originally posted by Evangelion
Agape -

• 
  Acts 10:47.
  Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

They've already received the Holy Spirit. Now Peter says that they are to be baptised in water.

This stands in direct contradiction to your theology.

Not at all when you rightly divide God's Word. Peter DID NOT SAY that they were to be baptized in water at all. BUT JESUS SAID:"BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST...." I think Peter was smart enough to understand the words Jesus spoke right before he ascended into heaven: John truly baptized with water BUT--CONTRAST to water, YE "SHALL" BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST...."

If Peter water baptized after Christ commanded him not to BUT that they should be baptized with the Holy Spirit, then Peter was either just plain stupid or he deliberately disobeyed Christ.

They already received the gift of holy spirit, were saved, born again and received eternal life. Therefore who was Peter that he should withstand God (concerning the "Gentiles" being baptized with the spirit and speaking in tongues). It already occurred and there was nothing anyone could do to stop it, or add to it for that matter. It WAS DONE, COMPLETE with SPIRIT BAPTISM ALONE. Water is h20 and that's all it is! All it's good for today is just getting people all wet.

 

[Apollos]

Acts 10:47 - How many times did Cornelius recevie HS baptism???

Acts 10:47 - How many times did Cornelius recevie HS baptism???

Acts 10:47- " Can any man forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?"

Let's see how well this clear statement reads when compared to the prejudice others carry into it...

Can any man forbid "water" (erroneously claimed to be "spiritual water" or Spirit baptism by the biased - no CONTEXT for this thought exists in the entire chapter!!)) - that these - who have already received Spirit baptism - should not be (now) baptized in the Spirit ???? What ???? Those in error here take a might peculiar reading of this. Peter knew they had already been baptized in the Spirit. So Peter must be talking now about another baptism - a baptism in WATER - aqua pura - evain!!

Now the clencher...

Acts 10:49- "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."

Baptism in "the name of Jesus" is WATER baptism!!

Let see - Are we to be assumed so mentally pathetic as to have some suggest that we believe that Peter COMMANDS them to be baptized with Spirit baptsim (which this passage says they ALREADY received and HS baptism is something man cannot do or command)... or would those in error suggest that Peter COMMANDS them to be baptized with the Spirit AGAIN ??!!!

Ahh - the tangled web of those neck-deep in error!

It is not Peter who is "just plain stupid".

 

[agape]

Re: Acts 10:47 - How many times did Cornelius recevie HS baptism???

Re: Acts 10:47 - How many times did Cornelius recevie HS baptism???

Originally posted by Apollos
Acts 10:47- " Can any man forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?"

Let's see how well this clear statement reads when compared to the prejudice others carry into it..

The prejudice ones are those who are still stuck on water baptism when Jesus said: "But YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST..."

Can any man forbid "water" (erroneously claimed to be "spiritual water" or Spirit baptism by the biased - no CONTEXT for this thought exists in the entire chapter!!)) - that these - who have already received Spirit baptism - should not be (now) baptized in the Spirit ???? What ???? Those in error here take a might peculiar reading of this. Peter knew they had already been baptized in the Spirit. So Peter must be talking now about another baptism - a baptism in WATER - aqua pura - evain!

LoL...very dramatic, but unfortunately, very untrue. There never was a "second" baptisim, except in your bias mind.

Now the clencher...

Acts 10:49- "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."

Baptism in "the name of Jesus" is WATER baptism!!

Who says? The Word does not teach this. He had commanded or arranged towards the Gentiles to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ which is SPIRIT BAPTISM!!! You got it ALL BACKWARDS.

Let see - Are we to be assumed so mentally pathetic as to have some suggest that we believe that Peter COMMANDS them to be baptized with Spirit baptsim (which this passage says they ALREADY received and HS baptism is something man cannot do or command)... or would those in error suggest that Peter COMMANDS them to be baptized with the Spirit AGAIN ??!!!

What's mentally pathetic is to think that after they had already received the fullness of the gift of holy spirit by Christ that Peter would have them baptized again in MERE WATER...H20! Sorry, I have to laugh at that one! ROFL

Ahh - the tangled web of those neck-deep in error!

Ahh - yes, the tangled web of those who have fallen into the snare of man-made religious doctrines such as water baptism.

It is not Peter who is "just plain stupid".

You got that one right, but don't worry, there's hope for you to smarten up.

There was no reason for them to be BAPTIZED AGAIN with mere, nothing to gain, but getting wet H20 when being baptized by Christ with the holy spirit COMPLETELY DID IT ALL!!...wake up and smell the truth for once in your life! Why don't you explain to me how and why water baptism is essential to salvation. So far no one else has been able to show this.

The circumcized believers were astonished with the idea that the Gentiles received the new birth and spoke in tongues. Then Peter answered them according to their reaction. He was saying why are you so astonished and bewildered? Certainly none of you or I have the ability to block or hinder what God has appointed for the Gentiles because we have already heard them speak with tongues and we know they received the same gift of holy spirit as we have already received. They were not able to hinder or forbid water (referring to the holy spirit life) which the Gentiles had already received. Well did they even mention water to Peter? NO, THEY DID NOT. The topic was the GENTILES cashing in on the SPIRIT BAPTISM. Peter was talking about holy spirit...spiritual waters!

He was saying who shall forbid or withstand God seeing they have already been baptized with the holy spirit and they hear them speak with tongues. And he commanded or had arranged-towards them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It was God's command. God, according to verse 33 set in order or arranged towards the Gentiles to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It does not say Peter or anyone else baptized the Gentiles with water. He gives an account in Jerusalem in Acts 11 of what had occurred with the Gentiles and states who was I that I should withstand God, after he heard them manifest the gift of holy spirit. There is absolutely no mention of anyone being baptized or dunked in water by Peter.

 

[servantofChrist]

It is amazing how many times the difference between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism has been shown from the scriptures (other than the obvious difference), yet some of you are still not getting it:

Acts 2:1-4 and Acts 10:44-46 are examples of actual occurrences of Holy Spirit baptism. In both examples, the outpouring of God's Spirit was entirely a one-way affair: it was directed at the time, place, and circumstance of GOD'S choosing!. Those who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at these two instances were not given a command or instruction to obey in order to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, they received it COMPLETELY independent of their own will. This characteristic of Holy Spirit baptism is too significant for anyone to fail to notice.

On the other hand, in Acts 2:38, well AFTER the manifestation of Holy Spirit baptism recorded in vv. 1-4, the multitude was given a command FOR THEM TO OBEY - they were commanded to "BE BAPTIZED" (v. 38).

This is clearly a different kind of baptism than the Holy Spirit baptism seen occurring in Acts 2:1-4 and Acts 10:44-47. In fact, in Acts 10:44-48 there is a clear, definite distinction drawn between Holy Spirit baptism and water baptism and the scriptures very plainly show that the baptism that those individuals were commanded to obey was WATER BAPTISM.

Careful observance of the scriptures in these 2 passages, esp. Acts 10:44-48, will bear this out unequivocally.