The Gospel Verses Predestination

[MennoSota]

So humbling oneself and putting one's faith in God who did everything required is considered boasting?

Contradiction much?

You realize that when the verse says "lest any man should boast," it's not talking about boasting about Christ, right?

Because Paul says:

But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. - Galatians 6:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians6:14&version=NKJV

No rebel ever humbles himself. Humans are by nature prideful and selfish as they attempt to rule their own lives. Left to themselves (see Romans 1) they will attempt to place themselves on God's throne.
Ephesians 2:9 is referring to you boasting about how you conjured your own faith and chose God. You cannot do so because the very faith you have is because God made you alive in Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

No rebel ever humbles himself. Humans are by nature prideful and selfish as they attempt to rule their own lives. Left to themselves (see Romans 1) they will attempt to place themselves on God's throne.
Ephesians 2:9 is referring to you boasting about how you conjured your own faith and chose God. You cannot do so because the very faith you have is because God made you alive in Christ.

Jesus says there are people on the side of truth that would listen to him.

Where do you get that Jesus meant he already gave them the Holy Spirit to make them believe?

The Jews were the elect and chosen and most of them were cut off when Jesus came and taught.

 

[Robert Pate]

No rebel ever humbles himself. Humans are by nature prideful and selfish as they attempt to rule their own lives. Left to themselves (see Romans 1) they will attempt to place themselves on God's throne.
Ephesians 2:9 is referring to you boasting about how you conjured your own faith and chose God. You cannot do so because the very faith you have is because God made you alive in Christ.

God does not just zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them alive in Christ. Everyone that received the Holy Spirit in the New Testament did so because the heard and believed the Gospel, Galatians 3:2. also Romans 10:17.

 

[God's Truth]

God does not just zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them alive in Christ. Everyone that received the Holy Spirit in the New Testament did so because the heard and believed the Gospel, Galatians 3:2. also Romans 10:17.

They had to believe that they had to repent of their sins.

 

[Robert Pate]

They had to believe that they had to repent of their sins.

It is the work of the Holy Spirit to bring about repentance.

Faith comes first and then the Holy Spirit brings about repentance and good works, Ephesians 2:10. It is all of God.

 

[MennoSota]

God does not just zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them alive in Christ. Everyone that received the Holy Spirit in the New Testament did so because the heard and believed the Gospel, Galatians 3:2. also Romans 10:17.

No dead person can hear unless God makes them alive in Christ Jesus.
Herein is our difference. You place the responsibility for faith upon human intellect and reasoning. I place the responsibility for faith upon God.

 

[God's Truth]

No dead person can hear unless God makes them alive in Christ Jesus.
Herein is our difference. You place the responsibility for faith upon human intellect and reasoning. I place the responsibility for faith upon God.

Not all are spiritually dead.

 

[Robert Pate]

No dead person can hear unless God makes them alive in Christ Jesus.
Herein is our difference. You place the responsibility for faith upon human intellect and reasoning. I place the responsibility for faith upon God.

You also place the sins of humanity on God. According to you everything is God's fault.

 

[MennoSota]

You also place the sins of humanity on God. According to you everything is God's fault.

No, that's you conclusion about predestination. No one has ever said such a thing.
I do not teach the philosophy of double predestination. I don't find the word double next to the word predestination anywhere, thus I don't teach it. Plus Paul addresses the issue in Romans 9 and expresses that our sinfulness is not God's fault. I encourage you to put down you preconceptions and read Romans 9 without bias. See what God says.

 

[Robert Pate]

No, that's you conclusion about predestination. No one has ever said such a thing.
I do not teach the philosophy of double predestination. I don't find the word double next to the word predestination anywhere, thus I don't teach it. Plus Paul addresses the issue in Romans 9 and expresses that our sinfulness is not God's fault. I encourage you to put down you preconceptions and read Romans 9 without bias. See what God says.

There is nothing in Romans 9 that teaches predestination, or that God is a robot. God did not harden Pharaoh's heart. Pharaoh hardened his own heart. If God did that he would be unjust and a sinner. Romans 9:22 says "WHAT IF" the following is not what God does. You are a typical Calvinist trying to make God look like some sort of a heartless tyrant.

 

[beloved57]

God does not just zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them alive in Christ. Everyone that received the Holy Spirit in the New Testament did so because the heard and believed the Gospel, Galatians 3:2. also Romans 10:17.

The Gospel doesnt teach that sinners Christ died for are lost, thats not the Good news ! You teach sinners Jesus Christ died for still perish !

 

[MennoSota]

There is nothing in Romans 9 that teaches predestination, or that God is a robot. God did not harden Pharaoh's heart. Pharaoh hardened his own heart. If God did that he would be unjust and a sinner. Romans 9:22 says "WHAT IF" the following is not what God does. You are a typical Calvinist trying to make God look like some sort of a heartless tyrant.

You have just called God an unjust sinner.
Exodus 7:3-4
[3]But I will make Pharaoh’s heart stubborn so I can multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in the land of Egypt.
[4]Even then Pharaoh will refuse to listen to you. So I will bring down my fist on Egypt. Then I will rescue my forces—my people, the Israelites—from the land of Egypt with great acts of judgment.
Note also that God has His people, chosen by Him. God predetermined whom He would choose. God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

Romans 9:15-18
[15]For God said to Moses, “I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.”
[16]So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.
[17]For the Scriptures say that God told Pharaoh, “I have appointed you for the very purpose of displaying my power in you and to spread my fame throughout the earth.”
[18]So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.
RP, you are fighting against the very words of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

You have just called God an unjust sinner.
Exodus 7:3-4
[3]But I will make Pharaoh’s heart stubborn so I can multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in the land of Egypt.
[4]Even then Pharaoh will refuse to listen to you. So I will bring down my fist on Egypt. Then I will rescue my forces—my people, the Israelites—from the land of Egypt with great acts of judgment.
Note also that God has His people, chosen by Him. God predetermined whom He would choose. God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

Romans 9:15-18
[15]For God said to Moses, “I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.”
[16]So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.
[17]For the Scriptures say that God told Pharaoh, “I have appointed you for the very purpose of displaying my power in you and to spread my fame throughout the earth.”
[18]So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.
RP, you are fighting against the very words of God.

You want to believe that God is a sinner like you. You also want to believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born, making him unjust.

Salvation always has been by grace through faith. You don't have saving faith. It is not possible for you to believe what you do about God and be saved. This is why Calvinism is self defeating.

 

[God's Truth]

You want to believe that God is a sinner like you. You also want to believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born, making him unjust.

Salvation always has been by grace through faith. You don't have saving faith. It is not possible for you to believe what you do about God and be saved. This is why Calvinism is self defeating.

Salvation is by believing and obeying God.

 

[Robert Pate]

Salvation is by believing and obeying God.

Holiness religion is also self defeating.

If you think that you have no sins then you have eliminated yourself from salvation. Jesus came into the world to save sinners. You refuse to confess that you are one.

 

[God's Truth]

Holiness religion is also self defeating.

If you think that you have no sins then you have eliminated yourself from salvation. Jesus came into the world to save sinners. You refuse to confess that you are one.

Salvation is by believing and obeying God, even if if means 'repent' after making a mistake by sinning.

You preach against obeying God.

You should fear but you are too blinded and ensnared to not notice what you are doing.

I would tell you to stop doing what you are doing that is wrong, but you go against repenting.

It is so sad that a person goes against everything Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

Obey God---repent or perish.

Repent of your sins or die.

 

[Robert Pate]

Salvation is by believing and obeying God, even if if means 'repent' after making a mistake by sinning.

You preach against obeying God.

You should fear but you are too blinded and ensnared to not notice what you are doing.

I would tell you to stop doing what you are doing that is wrong, but you go against repenting.

It is so sad that a person goes against everything Jesus.

You refuse to listen to the apostle Paul.

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for the righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murders of mothers, for manslayers" 1 Timothy 1:9.

You must really hate Paul.

 

[God's Truth]

You refuse to listen to the apostle Paul.

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for the righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murders of mothers, for manslayers" 1 Timothy 1:9.

You must really hate Paul.

Paul teaches that everyone who obeys is saved, and those who do not are not.

You are lost.

 

[God's Truth]

What is wrong with some people?

Paul taught what John the baptizer taught!

Deal with that.

John the baptizer got people ready for the Lord by having them repent of their sins.