Where does it say that in the Bible? You have just made up a story because it makes you feel good. Is it possible that God chooses to extend grace outside of anything we do? Could it be that God chooses and not us?
The Gospel Verses Predestination
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. - Luke 12:48 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke12:48&version=NKJV
God's Truth
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John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's only begotten Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.
“Whoever” is whoever. This is plain and simple. Calvinists use special exegesis to twist the scriptures. Whomever in the world believes turns into whomever in the world of believers who believe.
1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Are you willing to repent of all the falseness you followed?
Are you ready to give up family and friends who will go against you for leaving Calvinism?
Are you ready to give it all up for God's Truth?
Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. This scripture shows that Jesus saves any who come to him in belief; it is a choice of all men, if they only would not love darkness instead of the light.
God wants all men saved. Read how many times scripture says "all men.”
John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1 Timothy2:3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.
1 Timothy 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
That scripture right there should stop any one from ever misunderstanding and believing Calvinism ever again. How much plainer language does it have to be? "Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.” All men have the chance to obey and believe.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.
“Whoever” is whoever. This is plain and simple. Calvinists use special exegesis to twist the scriptures. Whomever in the world believes turns into whomever in the world of believers who believe.
1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Are you willing to repent of all the falseness you followed?
Are you ready to give up family and friends who will go against you for leaving Calvinism?
Are you ready to give it all up for God's Truth?
Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. This scripture shows that Jesus saves any who come to him in belief; it is a choice of all men, if they only would not love darkness instead of the light.
God wants all men saved. Read how many times scripture says "all men.”
John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1 Timothy2:3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.
1 Timothy 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
That scripture right there should stop any one from ever misunderstanding and believing Calvinism ever again. How much plainer language does it have to be? "Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.” All men have the chance to obey and believe.
There is NO grace in a God that predestinates billions of people to hell before they are born. The fact that you believe that God does that tells me that you don't have faith in him. It is not humanly possible to have saving faith in a God that would commit such an atrocity as that.
Worse yet you have 0 faith in his Son Jesus Christ. The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the WHOLE world, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 4:14, plus many other scriptures. So, here you are, no faith in God and no faith in Christ. Faith is the glue of Christianity. You are not a Christian, but you think that you are.
In the Gospel Jesus comes into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. He is our justifier, sanctifier and redeemer, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10. Salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9. Of course you reject all of this because you want to predestinated, which is a diversion away from faith.
God's Truth
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But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
So, they'll still be beaten. That's what the couple sentences say.
Here is your struggle. Your image of god, which you have created, is that god cannot condemn innocent people before they can physically break the law.
You must prove that humans are born innocent. I await your biblical support for humans being born innocent.
John 6:32-40,43-45
[32]Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, Moses didn’t give you bread from heaven. My Father did. And now he offers you the true bread from heaven.
[33]The true bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
[34]“Sir,” they said, “give us that bread every day.”
[35]Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
[36]But you haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me.
[37]However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.
[38]For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will.
[39]And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.
[40]For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.”
[43]But Jesus replied, “Stop complaining about what I said.
[44]For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up.
[45]As it is written in the Scriptures, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Again, Robert, how do you explain your choice to believe and your neighbor's choice to not believe? Were you more discerning? What motivated you?
AMR
God's Truth
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What is your point?
God's Truth
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Calvinism is false.
Jesus come and made a Last Will and Testament, and he told us who gets in it and what they get.
God's Truth
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I answered your question in post #194. You apparently didn't like the answer, so you ask again.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Your "answers" to my specific question:
Concluding "that is the way it is" is not an answer. It is an equivocation, Robert.
Again, Robert, how do you explain your choice to believe and your neighbor's choice to not believe? Were you more willing? If so, why? Did God make you more willing than your neighbor?
Simple questions that do not need equivocation.
My answer:
God did it. He made me able to be be willing to believe by the quickening of the Holy Spirit via efficacious grace, such that I could not not believe.
Yours?
AMR
You want a complicated answer. Religious people like yourself like complicated theology. I don't know why some people accept Christ and some don't, nobody knows the answer to that question. One thing for sure is that I am not going to make God responsible for people going to hell.
Ask Mr. Religion
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My answer was quite uncomplicated, Robert.
Then you are a believer and have no idea why you accepted Christ? :AMR:
I appreciate the fact that you are at least making an attempt to answer questions and dialog. It is refreshing. That said, you seem to be wiggling around providing a real answer because I suspect you know where that will eventually lead:
AMR
I rejected Christ for a number of years, because I was enjoying living a sinful life.
I accepted Christ because I was a hell bound sinner. When the Holy Spirit called me and convicted me of my need for Christ it was not that difficult to say yes to Jesus.
I and I alone made that choice. Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners, I qualified. He didn't say that he came into the world to save Calvinist. Everyone qualifies because everyone is a sinner.
You want to make God responsible for everyone's salvation. God has done all that he can do for the salvation of fallen man. The ball is now in humanities court. We have the freedom to accept or reject. You can be sure of one thing, God is not going to make the choice for you. What glory would that bring to God if he determined who would be saved and who would be lost? Calvinism makes a sham out of the Gospel and justification by faith. If Calvinism were true then who needs Jesus Christ? If salvation was decided before the foundation of the world that automatically makes Christ and his Gospel worthless.
beloved57
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One still rejects Christ and enjoys a sinful life when they deny His Blood saved all for whom it was shed. They're in idolatry
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Over 60 years ago I heard the good news of Fathers love for me/us. No chance was involved, my being knew from the first second I was coming Home! The fact is the ball is not in the court of humanity! He calls, we follow! There are doubtless those who come kicking and screaming, but come they will!
"I will draw all mankind unto Me."
Draw=
Draw/ drag off/ impel with power.
NO chance. One Court. One Will!
The reason that Jesus commanded the apostles to go into all of world and preach the Gospel is so that everyone that wants to be saved, can be saved, by doing nothing more than calling on the name of the Lord,
"For whosoever (all, anyone, everyone) that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
The Lord wants us to come willingly. If we have to be forced to come to him against our will, chances are we will not persevere to the end.