ECT The Gospel Proper

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Danoh

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"Traditional" Christianity has it backward, since they refuse to rightly divide the word of truth. After being justified by being baptized into Christ, and being new creatures in Christ, with eternal life, having been raised, ascended, and seated, glorified in heavenly places in Christ Jesus(up), "religion" wants to "bury" you(down) you under the element of water , which, as part of the earth, is under a curse, by being dunked until the tadpoles know your social security number.


Water baptism, throughout the OT/NT, was never viewed as "Death/Burial/ & Resurrection."


Baptism - changing the condition, identity, of something because of an action that was performed.; placing or putting something into another substance and performing an action so that it will change the state of the item from its previous condition-it's condition, status, or identity is changed!

Baptism- the idea of being placed into something (the Lord Jesus Christ's death in this dispensation), and an action is performed, so that when we come out we are changed from our previous condition. It is all about our identification; the LORD God takes what we are "in Adam", and places us, identifies us, into the Lord Jesus Christ, and the LORD God's action (crucifying the old man) changes our condition- now we are "in Christ." We are no longer what we were in Adam, because God has done something to us and in us. Our previous condition has been changed because of what God has done:


The bible....a book of details:

" Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Colossians 2:12 KJV

Buried with Him-not like Him.

" Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: {6} Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:3-6 KJV
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Again:Baptism- "to change the nature, identity, condition, status, and to IDENTIFY something with its purpose." For example, Homer, in his book "The Odyssey", desribes the tempering of a sword. When the hot metal was plunged into water, the sword was "baptized" , and thus the change in the condition of the sword was from soft to hard metal. As another example, when a piece of cloth was placed into a dye vat for coloring, there was a change in the condition of the piece of cloth upon emergence from the vat-it had a new color.

Where is the water?

" But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. " Mt. 20:22-23 KJV

"And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized with shall ye be baptized". Mk 10:38-39 KJV

"And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:" Luke 12:50 KJV
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People assume baptism means "water". I can show you other passages where there is no water. There was no water on the cross. The basic idea is IDENTIFICATION for the purpose of change in condition/identity/status. Did you know that in biblical times, to dye a piece of cloth, you would "baptize" it, "overwhelm" it, "cover" it, in a vat of dye. The cloth would now have a "change in condition", a new "identity". The element was dye here. Look at:

"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea...." 1 Cor. 10:2 KJV

They were identified with Moses. Also note Exodus 14:16 KJV, Exodus 14:22 KJV="dry ground", Exodus 14:29 KJV,Exodus 15:19 KJV="dry land". No water! The Egyptians were wet, not the Israelites.

Exactly.

Rom. 5:6-8.
 

john w

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It's from Jesus. Doesn't Paul get his commands from Jesus?
So is this, "from Jesus:"

"Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ." Mt. 16:20 KJV

Do it. Obey!!!


That's the way... uh, huh, uh,huh, I like it,... uh huh, uh huh.....- Joe Christian and "all the Holy Bible is about me, written specifically to me, for my obedience", Sunshine, Band.
 

john w

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Survey Hebrews 9:10 KJV

which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

There is one baptism today, in this dispensation, and that is a spiritual baptism, where a person is identified into the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and is identified into the body of Christ-all by the Holy Spirit(notice the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer, not the Lord Jesus Christ). You can get "immersed", "dunked", "sprinkled" until the tadpoles know your social security number, but that will not save you.


There is one baptism today in the "dispensation of the grace of God"(Ephesians 3:2 KJV), and that is spiritual baptism of Ephesians 4:5 KJV(notice the 7 unities of Ephesians 4:3-6 KJV- are all spiritual), by which we are baptized(identified) into the body of Christ, and thus identified into the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Most refuse to discern the difference between Christ baptizing WITH or IN the Holy Spirit at Pentecost(Matthew 3:11 KJV; Mark 1:8 KJV; Luke 3:16 KJV; John 1:33 KJV; Acts 1:4-5 KJV; Acts 11:16 KJV), and "For BY(emphasis mine) one Spirit are we ALL(emphasis mine) baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been ALL(emphasis mine) made to drink into one Spirit"(1 Cor. 12:13 KJV). The body of Christ's(which was not in existence in the early Acts period) baptism involves the Holy Spirit as the baptizer, which:

1.places/identifies/unites us into one body of Jews and Gentiles who have trusted the Lord Jesus Christ alone as the Saviour, creating a NEW entity("new man") totally distinct in its nature and program from Israel, and



2. places/identifies/unites each believer with Christ("in Christ" and "Christ in me"), who is the "Head of the Body", and thus His death becomes our death, His burial becomes our burial, and His resurrection becomes our resurrection. There is therefore both a vertical and horizontal union simultaneously formed by this "one baptism"(Ephesians4:5 KJV-NOT TWO) by the Spirit. Notice that throughout 1 Corinthians Chapter 12 there is a constant reference to the work of the Holy Spirit. Quoting only one here, which illustrates the Holy Spirit's instrumentality: "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking BY(emphasis mine) the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is Lord, But BY(emphasis mine) the Holy Ghost"(1 Cor. 12:3 KJV). All through that Chapter 12, the Holy Spirit is the One who is the instrument doing the various actions. So the passage could not be made to say "in/with one Spirit". It has to be BY ONE SPIRIT, and therefore a different Spirit baptism is being spoken of here, which is separate and distinct from the Spirit baptism in Acts 1 where the Lord Jesus Christ is the baptizer.

Failure to discern the difference between these 2 baptisms has caused millions of people to be deceived and led astray into a vast number of heresies, including the "Holy Laughter" debacle, the "pscho-babble" tongues embarrassment, and the unscriptural "slain in the spirit" lunacy.

The Lord Jesus Christ had a literal circumcision on the 8th day, as all the little Jews had, and He had the real anti-typical circumcision at the cross. There the "old man" was "cut away", "severed"(circumcised), not merely symbolically,and ceremonially or typically, but in reality. And now saints of the body of Christ have in the crucified Lord Jesus Christ the real circumcision made without hands. From now on the circumcision of the unbelievers who rejected the Christ was only a concision, Philippians 3:2 KJV, a laceration.

We now have not only a complete circumcision, but also a complete baptism. We have been laid together with Him in the tomb through the baptism , as Colossians 2:12 KJV says literally.

This is a reference to His baptism at Calvary-no water at Calvary-no water-Matthew 20:22-23 KJV/Mark 10:38-39 KJV/Luke 12:50 KJV

=the baptism of His blood at Calvary-same as Romans 6:4 KJV. This came three years after His water baptism. In this water baptism, He IDENTIFIED Himself with Israel and with us: Luke 12:50 KJV; Matthew. 20:22-23 KJV; Mark 10:38-39 KJV; Romans 6:3-4 KJV; Gaatiansl. 3:27 KJV; Colossians. 2:12 KJV.


In Romans 6:3-4 KJV, Galatians. 3:27 KJV, and Colossians 2:12 KJV, we have the same waterless baptism INTO the crucified, buried, and risen Lord Jesus Christ. There is no imitation of the Jewish water rite, water baptism, but an IDENTIFICATION with His "blood bath" at Calvary. We have been baptized, IDENTIFIED, into His death: Romans 6:4 KJV. When we were just dead Gentile "dogs", He also gave us a quickening, and a resurrection through that special operation of the LORD God, not men, by the way of faith. Those "in Christ"(get it?-united) are now people that had a resurrection from among the dead, and this certainly was not material. We were dead, but now our life is hid with Christ in God-Colossians 3:3 KJV. How anomalous is it to BURY the living! The dead are buried, not the living!


Just as sure as our circumcision was without hands, Col. 2:10-12 KJV, so also is our baptism without hands. We were quickened with the Lord Jesus Christ, and raised with Christ, but not in or through water baptism. Water baptism could not possible be a burial with the Lord Jesus Christ, for He was not buried in a liquid grave, but in rocks, and buried when dead. In contrast, the "dry baptismal" candidate is buried as soon as he has received life! That saint was raised, Col. 3:1-2 KJV, and THE SINNER "in Adam" was BURIED! Believers are not to be buried, but are most emphatically declared to have been buried, even those who religiously never touched a drop of water! It is not to happen, but it happened when he died and was buried, Romans 6:3-5 KJV. He was long ago baptized, IDENTIFIED, into Christ Jesus and into His death: Romans 6:2-5; Gal. 3:27 KJV; Col. 2:10-12 KJV; Ephesians 4:5 KJV. People today read baptism in the imperative mood, whereas the LORD God wrote it in the PAST TENSE. They today read it as a prerequisite, while the LORD God states it as a prerogative. They today regard it as something material, while the LORD God regards it today as spiritual. People today regard it as for the few that obey. The LORD God says He baptized, IDENTIFIED, all believers. People today want it to be done. The LORD God says He already did it 2000 years ago. The LORD God buried the dead Lord Jesus Christ. People today want to bury living Christians.The LORD God buried in rocks. People today want to bury in water. The LORD God redeemed from the curse. People today want to "dip" the saint under the element of a curse. The LORD God made us to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, people today take joy/delight in going down to the waters of death with the tadpoles.

One Baptism - the work of the Holy Spirit that identifies, or"baptizes" the believer into the very death of Christ (see Romans 6:3-4 KJV with Galatians 2:20 KJV; Colossians 2:11-12 KJV).

This act of the Holy Ghost (the Baptizer) baptizing the believer into the death of Christ (the "element"), and thus so identifying the believer with his Lord as to make him a member of the Body of Christ, takes place the moment one believes the gospel of the Grace of God; this is the one baptism (and only) for today. (Note Ephesians 4:5 with 1 Corinthians 12:13). It is an operation of God, not of man (Colossians 2:11-12 KJV). Thus, we stand complete in Christ, apart from the works of men, either our own or another's. This one baptism that identifies us with the Lord Jesus Christ as members of His body was a part of a revelation received by the Apostle Paul, which he calls "the mystery"-- a secret that had been kept hidden in God before the foundation of the world, never made known to men of other ages. See Ephesians 3:1-10 KJV, Colossians 1:25-29 KJV.

These are 2 separate issues talked about in Col. 2:10-12 KJV. Understanding "the circumcision of Christ" is to understand that this was a spiritual circumcision at the cross. While Christ's spirit returned to the Father, God the Father "severed" Christ's soul from His body at the cross(the physical circumcision was a severing of the flesh from the body) Christ's soul went to hell, "separated" from His physical body-"made without hands"=God the Father performing this spiritual circumcision. Likewise, when you were saved, who you were "in Adam" was severed from your body-our "soul" was separated from "the body of the sins of the flesh".

Per the previous, the baptism here is also a spiritual one. Baptism means to identify for the purposes of union, oneness, change in condition, status, IDENTITY. This is a reference to the fact that when Christ was buried, believers were "identified" with the Lord Jesus Christ in this burial.

Also note that Romans 6:3-4 KJV states that we were baptized into Christ's death, and Galatians 3:27 KJV states we are baptized into Christ= when Christ died, I died. When Christ was buried, I was buried. When Christ rose from the dead, I rose from the dead.

The LORD reckons(reckon is a great biblical word-memorize it)it so!

Colossians 2:12 KJV:

"...ye are risen with him")=God the Father "identified" me in the death, burial, and resurrection.


Again, in this dispensation, the LORD God is now reconciling Jews and Gentiles to Himself in one body purely through faith in the completed work of the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 2:13-18 KJV). The very instant a believer trusts the gospel of Christ(1 Cor.15:1-4 KJV), he is "by one Spirit baptized into one body" (1 Cor.12:13 KJV) and thus "baptized into Christ" (Gal.3:27 KJV). There is no opportunity for a water ceremony here. No human rite or ceremony can consign the believer "into Christ." No, the "one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5 KJV) of the "one body" is performed by "one Spirit", not by a preacher, priest, pastor...............

The working of positional truth of being "in Christ" is this Spirit baptism. So absolutely adequate is our position in Christ by virtue of this Spirit performed baptism that we are told in Col. 2:10 KJV "....And ye are complete in Him."
 

john w

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Again....details...



"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;' "1 Corinthians 10:2 KJV

No water-the Israelites passed through the Red Sea on dry ground-the Egyptians "went under the water":

"But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea." Exodus 14:16 KJV

"And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided." Exodus 14:21 KJV

"And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left." Exodus 14:22 KJV

"But the children of Israel walked upon dry land in the midst of the sea; and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left." Exodus 14:29 KJV

"For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them; but the children of Israel went on dry land in the midst of the sea." Exodus 15:19 KJV

"And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea." Exodus 15:8 KJV

Congealed=thickened-frozen

"...the waters" , which "were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their leftwaters", were frozen!
 

Clete

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Again....details...



"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;' "1 Corinthians 10:2 KJV

No water-the Israelites passed through the Red Sea on dry ground-the Egyptians "went under the water":

"But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea." Exodus 14:16 KJV

"And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided." Exodus 14:21 KJV

"And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left." Exodus 14:22 KJV

"But the children of Israel walked upon dry land in the midst of the sea; and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left." Exodus 14:29 KJV

"For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them; but the children of Israel went on dry land in the midst of the sea." Exodus 15:19 KJV

"And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea." Exodus 15:8 KJV

Congealed=thickened-frozen

"...the waters" , which "were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their leftwaters", were frozen!

Very good!

I'm going to keep a lot of the material from your last several posts for later use.
 

Clete

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Since you are accusing me of lying I would POST proof of above from email, but apparently it's an actionable offense on these forums.

It was a lie.

Sure you've asked me leading questions that I didn't answer but your implication was that I was being evasive and avoided dealing with issues or was in some other way the problem. My offer to spend my own money to help you understand my doctrine is proof that I was not the problem and that you know it.

You also might want to remember that you're not the only one with those emails, the very existence of which was started based on a lie, if you ask me. You're no more interested in understanding my theological paradigm, as you claimed, than is Hillary Clinton. It was an excuse to bait me into giving you an opportunity to debate dispensationalism, which is clearly a pet pieve of yours. Practically every syllable that I attempted to even start down a path with, you disputed to the point that it was impossible to make any progress at all. You and I couldn't even find sufficient common ground in regards to the gospel itself, which was a primary catalyst for beginning this very thread, by the way. And don't whine about not being allowed to post those emails here. There's good reason for it, for one thing, but regardless of that, you're the one who insisted on having the discussion off site. You could have had it here where everyone could see it and I'd have still had the exact same reactions and said the exact same things and had the exact same results.

People do not have to agree with me in order to discuss issues with me in great detail and for long periods of time. I don't even mind repeating myself several times so long as I can detect the slightest effort being made to understand. All I require is intellectual honesty and sunstantive response. In short, I instist that my time not be intentionally wasted. You have now permanently destroyed your reputation in this regard and have proven yourself to be agressively hostile to anything that could hope to be productive on a web forum. A certifide waste of time.

Good bye Rosenritter. I sure hope you're proud of yourself.

Clete
 

Clete

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Am I aloud to post in this thread?

We are discussing Christian doctrine, the implied premise of which is that the bible and Christianity as a whole is true.

If you want to participate, I have no problem with it so long as you are contributing to the thread as it is and aren't attempting to derail it into something other than what was intended to be.
 

meshak

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We are discussing Christian doctrine, the implied premise of which is that the bible and Christianity as a whole is true.

If you want to participate, I have no problem with it so long as you are contributing to the thread as it is and aren't attempting to derail it into something other than what was intended to be.

This thread is about gospel according to Mads.

My gospel according to what Jesus says.

So is it still ok?
 

JudgeRightly

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This thread is about gospel according to Mads.

My gospel according to what Jesus says.

So is it still ok?
What about what Paul says?

Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven.Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, [JESUS]“Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”[/JESUS] And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, [JESUS]“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”[/JESUS]So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?” Then the Lord said to him, [JESUS]“Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”[/JESUS]And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one.Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus.And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, [JESUS]“Ananias.”[/JESUS] And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”So the Lord said to him, [JESUS]“Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying.And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”[/JESUS]Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”But the Lord said to him, [JESUS]“Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”[/JESUS]And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus. - Acts 9:1-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts9:1-19&version=NKJV
 

meshak

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What about what Paul says?

Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven.Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, [JESUS]“Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”[/JESUS] And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, [JESUS]“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”[/JESUS]So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?” Then the Lord said to him, [JESUS]“Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”[/JESUS]And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one.Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus.And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, [JESUS]“Ananias.”[/JESUS] And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”So the Lord said to him, [JESUS]“Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying.And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”[/JESUS]Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”But the Lord said to him, [JESUS]“Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”[/JESUS]And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus. - Acts 9:1-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts9:1-19&version=NKJV

You see, this is too long. Jesus' gospel is simple and not complicated, as most churches making it out to be.
 
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