The Gospel Of Thomas

[unknown]

Glad you are back, brother.

I'd rather be working the ground. It's a lot easier than talking to religious people who can not give a reason for what they believe.

 

[noguru]

I'd rather be working the ground. It's a lot easier than talking to religious people who can not give a reason for what they believe.

But you seem to enjoy the challenge.

 

[noguru]

Jesus asked, "Who do men say I am?", He also said, "If I testify of myself, my testimony is false".

What a person says about themselves really makes little difference to others. A Kabbalist does not say he is a Kabbalist because if he truly is a Kabbalist others will say it. In general, Holy people do not claim Holiness but others will see them that way if they are truly Holy.

I agree. But many people will miss it. Kind of like that Johny Lee song "Looking for Love in all the wrong places". They miss that their true nature (loving/not loving) comes shining through to others. And it has more to do with how they actually feel about them self. Rather than just using some person, label or doctrine to compensate for what they feel they lack.

 

[unknown]

But you seem to enjoy the challenge.

It's frustrating to say the least. What I really enjoy is when one person (and there have been a few over the years) tells me in private that they are glad that I am here and that they have learned something from me. That is also called pride but I'll repent later.

 

[unknown]

Saying 23

Saying 23

(23) Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and two out of ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one."

The first thing that comes to mind is what Jesus said about many being called and only a few chosen. It also brings to mind the broad and narrow paths.

I'm not sure whether I find comfort in this because I am different or if I am different because I find comfort in this.

 

[noguru]

It's frustrating to say the least. What I really enjoy is when one person (and there have been a few over the years) tells me in private that they are glad that I am here and that they have learned something from me. That is also called pride but I'll repent later.

It is not pride. It is just affirmation that someone other than you has independently distinguished the same valuable principles in life, and therefore you are not alone and yet have not forced anyone to swallow your advice.

 

[JosephR]

Well, the ground is too wet to run my tractor for a few days and most of my errands have been run, so here I am again.

Where were we?

I'm glad ur back as well, we have got a lot of rain.

The few that are chosen will Stand as one, I wonder if this eludes to a advancement in wisdom and consciousness , perhaps goin towards the ALL one true consciousness of the Creator?


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[JosephR]

I'm glad ur back as well, we have got a lot of rain.

The few that are chosen will Stand as one, I wonder if this eludes to a advancement in wisdom and consciousness , perhaps goin towards the ALL one true consciousness of the Creator?


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I thought this because of when Jesus said "I and the Father are One"
That's where the idea comes from , so when the few are chosen they may be one as well?


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[unknown]

I thought this because of when Jesus said "I and the Father are One"
That's where the idea comes from , so when the few are chosen they may be one as well?


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Yes, it's what the Kabbalists call "Equivalence Of Form". They explain that there is no space and hence no time in the spiritual "world". To say something is near or far in spirituality means how similar or different the qualities of the two are. When two spiritual objects have exactly the same qualities they are said to be one and the same.

The Kabbalists say that our efforts should be directed at attaining the same qualities as The Creator. The quality of The Creator is called "Bestowal", we lack that quality and that is why it was said that only God is good.

 

[freelight]

Standing as one..............

Standing as one..............

The few that are chosen will Stand as one, I wonder if this eludes to a advancement in wisdom and consciousness , perhaps goin towards the ALL one true consciousness of the Creator?

Indefinitely

Ontologically, the soul that is 'chosen' (the one recognizing and recieving the divine reality as it is) must be 'one' (in character and nature) as 'that'. Since 'God' is One, the soul that realizes 'God' is one, for it cannot be otherwise. In this 'non-dual' realization, there is no 'other' (there is not two). There is only The One, The All. Light is indivisible in essence, only appearing as multiple in reflection and form.

I thought this because of when Jesus said "I and the Father are One"
That's where the idea comes from , so when the few are chosen they may be one as well?

This quote from Jesus from John 10 is a subject in itself, for Jesus identifies himself as being 'one with God' as well as recognizing in a relative sense that the Father is greater than he. So, he could say "My Father is greater than I", as well as know that he and the Father were ONE. I say we too can have this realization,....of our difference from God (the sense of 'duality', 'seperation', 'distinction') and our non-diference (non-duality) with the eternal Spirit. Again,...since God is One, the identity and realization of God is One. In 'God-consciousness' there is only God! (pure light-consciousness-truth-reality...all-pervading, omnipresent, infinite).

Hence Jesus could say: "While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.

- John 12:36

This leads to GOT saying 24 -

24. His Disciples say: Show us thy place, for it is compulsory for us to seek it. || He says to them: Whoever has ears, let him hear! Within a person of light there is light, and he illumines the entire world. When he does not shine, there is darkness. (Mt 5:14-16, Jn 13:36; apparently a post-resurrection dialog; hyperlinear; Gk fragment)

John and Thomas agree on many points in their gnostic linguistics



pj

 

[JosephR]

Indefinitely



Ontologically, the soul that is 'chosen' (the one recognizing and recieving the divine reality as it is) must be 'one' (in character and nature) as 'that'. Since 'God' is One, the soul that realizes 'God' is one, for it cannot be otherwise. In this 'non-dual' realization, there is no 'other' (there is not two). There is only The One, The All. Light is indivisible in essence, only appearing as multiple in reflection and form.







This quote from Jesus from John 10 is a subject in itself, for Jesus identifies himself as being 'one with God' as well as recognizing in a relative sense that the Father is greater than he. So, he could say "My Father is greater than I", as well as know that he and the Father were ONE. I say we too can have this realization,....of our difference from God (the sense of 'duality', 'seperation', 'distinction') and our non-diference (non-duality) with the eternal Spirit. Again,...since God is One, the identity and realization of God is One. In 'God-consciousness' there is only God! (pure light-consciousness-truth-reality...all-pervading, omnipresent, infinite).



Hence Jesus could say: "While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.



- John 12:36



This leads to GOT saying 24 -



24. His Disciples say: Show us thy place, for it is compulsory for us to seek it. || He says to them: Whoever has ears, let him hear! Within a person of light there is light, and he illumines the entire world. When he does not shine, there is darkness. (Mt 5:14-16, Jn 13:36; apparently a post-resurrection dialog; hyperlinear; Gk fragment)



John and Thomas agree on many points in their gnostic linguistics







pj

Yeah I see the two intertwine in that point,
Thanks PJ


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[unknown]

(24) His disciples said to him, "Show us the place where you are, since it is necessary for us to seek it."
He said to them, "Whoever has ears, let him hear. There is light within a man of light, and he lights up the whole world. If he does not shine, he is darkness."

Jesus told them to look inside themselves. The "light" within a person is the image of The Creator. That image is older than the creation itself; It is a metphor for The Creator.

NT verses that are related to this saying are given below:

John 13:36 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards. 37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake. 38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The **** shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice. John 14 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Matthew 6:22-23 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 and yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Luke 11:34-36 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 33 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light. 34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness. 35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness. 36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light. Matthew 5 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[unknown]

Saying 25

Saying 25

(25) Jesus said, "Love your brother like your soul, guard him like the pupil of your eye."

This, to me, is saying the same thing as love your neighbor as yourself.

Nobody is ever transformed by The Creator until they have made this effort (earnestly) and they can't make this effort until they have begun to do the first great commandment to Love God with all your being. Love your neighbor is the second greatest commandment and like the greatest commandment, shows us plainly that belief alone is not enough.

 

[JosephR]

This, to me, is saying the same thing as love your neighbor as yourself.

Nobody is ever transformed by The Creator until they have made this effort (earnestly) and they can't make this effort until they have begun to do the first great commandment to Love God with all your being. Love your neighbor is the second greatest commandment and like the greatest commandment, shows us plainly that belief alone is not enough.

For. Me the first commandment brings respect for others and some love , sometimes it's hard to love all, but I have lost the hate part for anyone, except for myself sometimes,, a work in progress indeed but you are very much right I could not have come this far at all without the love for the Creator and my beginning love for others as myself,


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[freelight]

Love's eyes.......

Love's eyes.......

~*~*~

(25) Jesus said, "Love your brother like your soul, guard him like the pupil of your eye."

This, to me, is saying the same thing as love your neighbor as yourself.

Nobody is ever transformed by The Creator until they have made this effort (earnestly) and they can't make this effort until they have begun to do the first great commandment to Love God with all your being. Love your neighbor is the second greatest commandment and like the greatest commandment, shows us plainly that belief alone is not enough.

A wonderful metaphor is the "pupil of one's eye", for like it is the Lord's love for his people as the "apply of his eye". This is most intimate for it involves the very core extension of one's own 'being' and 'reflection'. We could also explore this wonderful organ-symbol of the "eye" itself in its very 'function-mechanisms' (on the physical-chemical level)...how the eye works as a reverse-image recorder, gathering in the light-waves and translating these into images with 'value' and 'meaning'. I've been wanting to study the physiology of the 'eye' some more and how such correlates on psychic/spiritual levels - some awesome stuff!

We would also note that the reverse of this saying to love your brother as your own soul, and the pupil of thine eye.....is to 'grieve' the spirit of your brother. ( special note here as well is the principle of grieving the Holy Spirit, which when understood in 'essence' is the same thing, since we're dealing with the 'essence' or essential 'being' (heart). Such is the antithesis of love if one uses energy and will to desecrate, disrespect and demean another. This is a powerful saying as its recorded to have been written in the Gospel of the Hebrews as quoted by Jerome.

In the Gospel according to the Hebrews, which the Nazarenes are wont to read, there is counted among the most grievous offences:

He that has grieved the spirit of his brother.
- (Jerome, Commentary on Ezekiel 6 {18:7}.)

Another quote from the Gospel of the Hebrews is the Lord saying to his disciples "And never be ye joyful, save when you behold your brother with love". - (Jerome, Commentary on Ephesians 3 {5:4})

Seeing these contrasts help us to understand, intuit and envision the valuing principle of 'love' and that which is contraty to it as what devalues, demeans, depresses, deprives. These sayings therefore of the Savior have special power, because they go right to the heart. By these 'contrasts' we can properly discern love or its absence.


pj

 

[unknown]

I took delivery of 8 pallets of sod around 10:30 Saturday morning. I got one pallet on the ground by myself before it rained on Sunday. My help didn't show up Saturday or most of it would have been done already. I am supposed to have at least one guy here to help this morning but it could be a couple of days before I get back to this thread.

Please feel free to carry on without me for a while.

 

[Levolor]

Thomas : 118 [114]. Simon Peter says to them: "Let Mary go out from our midst, for women are not worthy of life!" Jesus says: "See, I will draw her so as to make her male so that she also may become a living spirit like you males. For every woman who has become male will enter the Kingdom of heaven."

Seems enough by itself to know the writing is a piece of trash.

I don't know the responses that you might have received already as I have just now begun reading this thread. So...

It seems to me that the referenced comment is not speaking so much about the physicality being changed, but the usual 'inclination' of females to be emotionally motivated is what will be changed to be of a more steady personality not moved by unruly emotion so much but instead is moved by the Holy Spirit and reason. I see this latter influence in you.

 

[Levolor]

We covered 4 allready..


Now 5.

Jesus said, “Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you. For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest”.

I hope that no one minds that I am coming in on this thread late.

This statement reminds me of the scripture that reads: For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light. Luke 8:17

I also think that the statement is related to this scripture: It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter. Proverbs 25:2

I think this speaks of the Self and the Observer We all have.And I will wait for unknown to go further and I will think on it more before I add anything else.

This is no doubt part of it. The above scriptures have a lot to do with it too. The one in Luke is, imo, about receiving revelation... about what had before been hidden and obscure to us, but becomes so very apparent. I could describe it using sunrise as the metaphor.

Prior to the sunrise, all that is around us cannot be seen because it is dark, we are in the darkness too. Then, as the sun rises what has always been there can now be seen.

We have new eyes that see what had always been there, and that which others have either also come to see or has not yet been given the eyes to see. (Matthew 13:16)

And so, the scripture in Proverbs shows that God has hidden/concealed some matters, but the kings search them out. As The Revelation of Jesus Christ states we have been made kings and priests. (Revelation 1:6) How are we made? By the searching out of matters and receiving the revelation from God. Always FROM God. We receive (souls are female, as you no doubt know) from God who is male (who always gives).

 

[Levolor]

His disciples questioned him and said to him, “Do you want us to fast? How shall we pray? Shall we give alms? What diet shall we observe?" Jesus said, “Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered”.

This should be fun to discuss....It seems they were asking how to practice the "Religion" that Jesus wanted them to observe.

I think that this one is very similar to #5, except for a few things, which were also covered by biblical scripture. How and when to fast, giving alms, how to pray, ... diet? I don't recall anything at the moment on diet, doesn't mean their isn't anything in the New Testament... oh wait! .... about the diet: Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.” Matthew 15:11

Religion? .... Christianity used to be called The Way... as Christ is.

If you'd like the scripture on the other items raised, let me know, okay?

 

[Levolor]

yup I agree. Do not tell lies, to anyone or yourself, If you lie you may deceive others, by word or actions.

Do not do what you hate.To me its because you will despise it,and you will be serving two masters and end up hating one. And anything that is in you or that you do is Hate,Hate can consume you and defile your soul.

for the last verse I looked this up.

In the Kingdom of Heaven the mind is an open book. This Gospel of the Kingdom has not been given to condemn those who have sinned, but rather it is given to prepare those who know they have sinned, and wish to turn from sin, and enter the Kingdom of Heaven. It is for these sinners that Christ came. Those who sin and do not realize that they have sinned, (the spiritually blind and dead), remain in their innocence, for they know not what they do.

I must say I agree with it very much.

Yes, my feel of it is more to be… guileless is probably the word - like a child - non divisive.

It’s all pointless anyway, as it will all be seen.

There is a sense of peace to the idea.

I'm appreciating these thoughts very much.

Joseph, about the following:

for the last verse I looked this up.

In the Kingdom of Heaven the mind is an open book. This Gospel of the Kingdom has not been given to condemn those who have sinned, but rather it is given to prepare those who know they have sinned, and wish to turn from sin, and enter the Kingdom of Heaven. It is for these sinners that Christ came. Those who sin and do not realize that they have sinned, (the spiritually blind and dead), remain in their innocence, for they know not what they do.

Where did you look this up at? I do not often find any who know about this. The ignorant are innocent.

Sin is only for those who knows it is sin and does it anyway. Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. James 4:17