The Gospel Of Thomas

[jeremysdemo]

Ahh yes I have looked into the worship of El and YhVH and read a book about meeting yourself,or guardian angel. very insightful and I am very interested in learning all about these things.

let me suggest The Year of Jubilee By Thomas Jude Germinario.

he makes some good connections IMHO, sites Jung, Kabbalah, church fathers etc.

don't agree with every conclusion but the references are great on that one, I was surprised how applicable it is to the sayings of Thomas.

 

[JosephR]

let me suggest The Year of Jubilee By Thomas Jude Germinario.

he makes some good connections IMHO, sites Jung, Kabbalah, church fathers etc.

don't agree with every conclusion but the references are great on that one, I was surprised how applicable it is to the sayings of Thomas.

Ok I found a web site it seems much of the info is there but maybe not the complete book, I am familiar with the info somewhat however as far as opening deadened senses, like chakras and the penile gland, they say sun gazing is used to do that as well,taking in direct solar energy, in ancient Egypt only the high priest and pharaoh was allowed to do so. In the morning and evening you can sun gaze and there are no UV rays to harm your eyes. Some say you can use this direct energy over time and you do not have to eat food much at all,, could have been how original men got energy and these canine teeth came over a long period after it was outlawed by the keepers of knowledge,,and if you think about it,making people dependent on food is one way to enslave large amounts of people.. thinking Israelite in Egypt here. haha now I am digressing..

Anyways...I just feel very blessed to have you and unknown and a group of free thinkers to be able to discuss with

 

[jeremysdemo]

Ok I found a web site it seems much of the info is there but maybe not the complete book, I am familiar with the info somewhat however as far as opening deadened senses, like chakras and the penile gland, they say sun gazing is used to do that as well,taking in direct solar energy, in ancient Egypt only the high priest and pharaoh was allowed to do so. In the morning and evening you can sun gaze and there are no UV rays to harm your eyes. Some say you can use this direct energy over time and you do not have to eat food much at all,, could have been how original men got energy and these canine teeth came over a long period after it was outlawed by the keepers of knowledge,,and if you think about it,making people dependent on food is one way to enslave large amounts of people.. thinking Israelite in Egypt here. haha now I am digressing..

that's quite the theory,

I can see a few flaws in the logic of sun food so to speak, considering parts of the earth can go weeks with overcast.
my thinking on that is a truly perfect creator would make a truly perfect earth for the creation in "His likeness".

there is a light greater than the sun, which comes from within (now I'm kingdom preaching!) which has more potential for damage and enslavement to men when it is turned off!

as Paul says it is a battle of principalities not flesh and blood.

Anyways...I just feel very blessed to have you and unknown and a group of free thinkers to be able to discuss with

I know the feeling, was banned for a year but now I'm back!

I feel very strongly that the time of the opening of Daniels scrolls is upon us:

Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

many are running to and fro and knowledge is increasing!

 

[JosephR]

that's quite the theory,

I can see a few flaws in the logic of sun food so to speak, considering parts of the earth can go weeks with overcast.
my thinking on that is a truly perfect creator would make a truly perfect earth for the creation in "His likeness".

there is a light greater than the sun, which comes from within (now I'm kingdom preaching!) which has more potential for damage and enslavement to men when it is turned off!

as Paul says it is a battle of principalities not flesh and blood.

I know the feeling, was banned for a year but now I'm back!

I feel very strongly that the time of the opening of Daniels scrolls is upon us:

Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

many are running to and fro and knowledge is increasing!

ah yes many holes indeed,but there has been a few books,documentary and studies on it as far as opening the penile gland with its practice and it intrigued my interest.

I dont know of any way we could increase knowledge,literally speaking as we have today. speaking mostly about the internet of coarse.And when they made the tower of Babel,how did God confuse them? language AHA,now we can interpret anything at the click of a mouse.God said they all reason together and with that nothing they cannot accomplish.. I know it has more then one meaning as in we need to all get out of fear and control.. turn to love and understanding,but the literal I think should not be ignored either.

 

[jeremysdemo]

ah yes many holes indeed,but there has been a few books,documentary and studies on it as far as opening the penile gland with its practice and it intrigued my interest.

I dont know of any way we could increase knowledge,literally speaking as we have today. speaking mostly about the internet of coarse.And when they made the tower of Babel,how did God confuse them? language AHA,now we can interpret anything at the click of a mouse.God said they all reason together and with that nothing they cannot accomplish.. I know it has more then one meaning as in we need to all get out of fear and control.. turn to love and understanding,but the literal I think should not be ignored either.

true, the literal serves as an archetype, as a reflection of the symbiotic relationship of God with his creation.

the literal Sun>Earth, spiritual Son>Man. etc

the spiritual Son has the light of the Father, because the shells,empty houses,egos, are removed from the doorway.

that book went into the whole male/female aspects of the creator, may be applicable to Thomas verse?

those shells are purged from the soul and cast down Zechariah 13:9, so it can ascend to it's place in God's collective soul if one will.

 

[jeremysdemo]

hey gotta go run some errands

but def want to come back and continue my ramblings!

 

[bybee]

Jesus spoke in parables in order to give more to those who had and take away from those who didn't.

In the NT we are told that at times the disciples were in need of further explanation. We see that Thomas is also the one in the NT who had the better answer for the question of who they thought He was.

I am in agreement with Bybee. When I went through my transformation back in '98-'99, I learned to see things differently than what the church teaches. Some of the people that knew me then would say how much like Jesus I was and ask me to pray for them but mostly they wanted me to do fundraisers for them. I had just gotten national press and had told the whole country what they need to do (Love your neighbor). When I tried to explain, they condemned my works. John Lennon's line "The way things are goin', they're gonna crucify me", kept playing in a loop in my head.

We are intentionally not told what Jesus said to Thomas in this saying. We can be sure whatever He said was true. My conclusion then is that people who don't understand these things really don't want to hear them. One reason they don't want to hear them is because it takes away from what they think they have.

People just get comfortable and then something happens that requires change. Most people don't like change. Yet, if we are not open how can we grow? How can we validate what we know?
I am most assuredly not a moral relativist. I understand that Truth is Truth. It does not change. But I change in my understanding and grasp of Truth. This is good!

 

[unknown]

saying 14

saying 14

(14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

The cause of all hearsay is orthodoxy. That sums up my thoughts about the first part.

The second part is also expressed in the NT (twice I believe) and should be clear to all. If we do not guard the words of our mouth, we reveal the thoughts of our heart.

 

[JosephR]

(14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

The cause of all hearsay is orthodoxy. That sums up my thoughts about the first part.

The second part is also expressed in the NT (twice I believe) and should be clear to all. If we do not guard the words of our mouth, we reveal the thoughts of our heart.

I have two thoughts on this.. the first is the boasting of prayers so others here you crying in the streets,so he says in other gospels it is better to hide in your closet and pray,but the second reminds me of a saying... Do not let the right hand know what the left is doing,like making a new years resolution,if you make known your intentions to the world then you can set up stumbling blocks,or as I heard you let the devil know your intentions therefore he knows how to attack you. So be true to yourself in all you do.

 

[freelight]

immersed in the fire.......

immersed in the fire.......

(13) Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell me whom I am like."
Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a righteous angel."
Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
Thomas said to him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like."
Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring which I have measured out."
And he took him and withdrew and told him three things. When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"
Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."

Jesus was all these things.

He was not their 'master' in the sense that they would enter into their own 'self-mastery' by true knowledge. One has need of a 'master' only until he becomes his own (led, governed by the Spirit).

The 'truth' Jesus told Thomas was too powerful and 'shocking' to the intellect or carnal man, hence it would 'disturb' the hearer 'at first'...until he was 'groomed' to continue his spiritual quest and learning,...becoming more alarmed and startled with progressive revelation. To face 'truth' is to face the 'firey' might of it, in all its fierceness. (one must be wholly open to have preconceptions, beliefs, opinions totally destroyed, ready to discard at any moment in the wake of new truth). Such is the 'fire' we are baptized with, the kindling that burns up all impurity and the dross of falsehood. After we have been burned, reviled, shocked, transformed by the truth, and received it, we can be 'free' and 'reign' by it, entering into our true 'sabbath'. - such is actually the 'work' and 'end-goal' of 'creation' itself, having traversed thru it and its experience, to master and overcome.





pj

 

[lifeisgood]

Well, if that's all ya got, alrighty then.

If we Christians took as much time in studying the Bible as we do by studying other than the Bible, there would not be as much confusion amongst the Christian community.

My motto is Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross plus nothing --- exclusively --- and I can only get that from the Bible. Gnostic books just don't do it for me.

I do not want to derail your thread so I'll just be quiet unless I see something where I can add to the conversation.

 

[unknown]

People just get comfortable and then something happens that requires change. Most people don't like change. Yet, if we are not open how can we grow? How can we validate what we know?
I am most assuredly not a moral relativist. I understand that Truth is Truth. It does not change. But I change in my understanding and grasp of Truth. This is good!

Isn't it strange, how many people ask God to change them and then fight Him every step of the way?

 

[unknown]

(15) Jesus said, "When you see one who was not born of woman, prostrate yourselves on your faces and worship him. That one is your father."

God is our Father.

In the NT this is expressed as "call no man Father...".

 

[This Charming Manc]

Still discussing this tripe?

 

[unknown]

(16) Jesus said, "Men think, perhaps, that it is peace which I have come to cast upon the world. They do not know that it is dissension which I have come to cast upon the earth: fire, sword, and war. For there will be five in a house: three will be against two, and two against three, the father against the son, and the son against the father. And they will stand solitary."

Seems to say the same as the NT. I don't remember seeing the last sentence in the NT tho. "they will stand solitary" seems to contradict "against", I'm not sure what to make of it yet.

 

[unknown]

Still discussing this tripe?

Why does that bother you?

Add: That was a silly question wasn't it. The reason it bothers you is that you are unable to refute anything that's been said so far. You're welcome to try, ya know.

 

[unknown]

If we Christians took as much time in studying the Bible as we do by studying other than the Bible, there would not be as much confusion amongst the Christian community.

That's one reason I'm not Christian. If you are convinced you have the truth you will not be moved from it.

My motto is Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross plus nothing --- exclusively --- and I can only get that from the Bible. Gnostic books just don't do it for me.

Yes you would need a New Testament to read the words of Paul. It's no wonder you don't seem interested in the words of Jesus. You seem to be saying here you are against any "works" which could mean a number of things. Do you disregard repentance of sin and forgiveness of others? That's what Jesus was teaching or do you disagree?

I do not want to derail your thread so I'll just be quiet unless I see something where I can add to the conversation.

Jump in anywhere.

Thanks for not being rude about it.

 

[jeremysdemo]

(14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

The cause of all hearsay is orthodoxy. That sums up my thoughts about the first part.

The second part is also expressed in the NT (twice I believe) and should be clear to all. If we do not guard the words of our mouth, we reveal the thoughts of our heart.

I agree the first part, it is that realization of the uselessness of the physical law and contrasts and hints at the spirit of the law,
the middle is sort of synopsis of Luke

although Luke message included the Kingdom in the healing.

Luke10:8-9.
Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you; 9 heal the sick in it and say to them, 'The kingdom of God has come near to you.'

of course Thomas is missing the rest of that saying, the negative part of whomever does not receive you and what should befall them.

I agree with the defilement as a common theme in the NT again focusing on the spiritual rather than physical diet, the synopsis is well documented, Matthew 15:11, Mark 7:15 even Paul weighs in on that one Rom 14:14.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Seems to say the same as the NT. I don't remember seeing the last sentence in the NT tho. "they will stand solitary" seems to contradict "against", I'm not sure what to make of it yet.

the Patterson/ Robinson translation of the coptic reads:

4) And they will stand as solitary ones."

the word here is translated "a single one" also found in verse

49) Jesus said, "Blessed are the solitary and elect, for you will find the Kingdom. For you are from it, and to it you will return."

and also

75)Jesus said, "Many are standing at the door, but it is the solitary who will enter the bridal chamber."

which has a synopsis to

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen."

 

[unknown]

the Patterson/ Robinson translation of the coptic reads:

4) And they will stand as solitary ones."

the word here is translated "a single one" also found in verse

49) Jesus said, "Blessed are the solitary and elect, for you will find the Kingdom. For you are from it, and to it you will return."

and also

75)Jesus said, "Many are standing at the door, but it is the solitary who will enter the bridal chamber."

which has a synopsis to

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen."

Thanks for your help with this. I read GoT about 5 or 6 years ago. When I read them I had nobody to discuss them with. I am learning a few new things and I appreciate all of those that are helping.

I don't understand all these sayings but if I don't examine the matter, I never will understand.

Thanks again for the refs.