The Gospel Of Thomas
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
John's school of 'gnosis'.......
John's school of 'gnosis'.......
The writings of John emphasize both 'faith' and 'knowledge'. 'Faith' draws us into the realm of the Spirit where we receive the words of Jesus and they become 'life' to us.
In the school of John, even with emphasis on 'faith' in the Son, that 'faith' is always original to and grounded in a living 'knowledge' of the Spirit, the life-giving principle. It was the 'life' of the Father abiding in Jesus, and he in Him...where his divine Sonship could be 'realized', - from this 'conscious union with God'...he could call others to join in and recognize thru fellowship the collective sonship.
pj
John's school of 'gnosis'.......
The writings of John emphasize both 'faith' and 'knowledge'. 'Faith' draws us into the realm of the Spirit where we receive the words of Jesus and they become 'life' to us.
In the school of John, even with emphasis on 'faith' in the Son, that 'faith' is always original to and grounded in a living 'knowledge' of the Spirit, the life-giving principle. It was the 'life' of the Father abiding in Jesus, and he in Him...where his divine Sonship could be 'realized', - from this 'conscious union with God'...he could call others to join in and recognize thru fellowship the collective sonship.
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
James the Just........
James the Just........
This points to the earliest tradition of Jewish believers of the pre-eminence of James as the leading 'pillar' of the Jerusalem community, as all missionaries are ultimately to report to and respect his 'authority' as Jesus successor. While the historical and legendary reports of James precede him as praiseworthy,...his 'name' must be honorable here in the tradition of all 'righteousness', so that universally....all the righteous have a place in creation which fulfills the purpose of existence to the highest standards.
pj
James the Just........
This points to the earliest tradition of Jewish believers of the pre-eminence of James as the leading 'pillar' of the Jerusalem community, as all missionaries are ultimately to report to and respect his 'authority' as Jesus successor. While the historical and legendary reports of James precede him as praiseworthy,...his 'name' must be honorable here in the tradition of all 'righteousness', so that universally....all the righteous have a place in creation which fulfills the purpose of existence to the highest standards.
pj
unknown
New member
(13) Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell me whom I am like."
Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a righteous angel."
Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
Thomas said to him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like."
Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring which I have measured out."
And he took him and withdrew and told him three things. When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"
Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."
Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a righteous angel."
Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
Thomas said to him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like."
Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring which I have measured out."
And he took him and withdrew and told him three things. When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"
Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."
JosephR
New member
To me this is the BIG ONE, from a esoteric or hidden perspective, this verse is the MOST controversial,rejected,feared,enlightening and misunderstood thing Jesus ever said...
Ill let some ppl chime in ,but I want to just say if anyone would have a problem about this Book,it should be here and not about something about gender or alms.
jeremysdemo
New member
reminds me of the temptation of Jesus.
Matthew 4:3
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread
in that light thomas seems to be saying if he told them they would be tempted to their own demise.
Stones of fire can also be a reference to the mighty guardian that was cast down?
Ezekiel 28:14
You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
there is definitely more to the idiom than is being expressed in the English vernacular.
Matthew 4:3
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread
in that light thomas seems to be saying if he told them they would be tempted to their own demise.
Stones of fire can also be a reference to the mighty guardian that was cast down?
Ezekiel 28:14
You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
there is definitely more to the idiom than is being expressed in the English vernacular.
jeremysdemo
New member
also I am reminded of the adulteress people wanted to stone according to the law but were not keeping the law in doing so (no man present at trial) Leviticus 20:10.
which makes me think what Thomas would speak would somehow be perceived as against God's law and worthy of stoning him?
The Jews in Johns account sought to kill or stone Jesus for calling God his father John 5:18.
which makes me think what Thomas would speak would somehow be perceived as against God's law and worthy of stoning him?
The Jews in Johns account sought to kill or stone Jesus for calling God his father John 5:18.
JosephR
New member
Yes I agree very much so, it can also be looked at in a spiritual way as in the stones would be there persecution of Thomas for what He would say,and they would not believe Him then the stones,or their guilt, would consume them after they realized the truth.
I am working on a big post for my personal beliefs on this right now,will post ina few mins,.
jeremysdemo
New member
cool look forward to reading it. :cheers:
likewise I could do this all day if I had the time, the similarity to other ancient manuscripts is evident, Jubilees is another one that comes to mind.
JosephR
New member
I am not good at making elaborate post with alot of fancy words that I do pretend to know there meaning. I am a simple person and will try to continue to be that way.
But this verse to me deserves ALOT of research and pondering.
It has been suggested by many in this thread that the language of the time period, the manner in which teachers taught,metaphors,idioms,layers,riddles and parables and whole other languages like "branch" and "dark layers" are used here.
And when Jesus explained the parables to the Apostles at their request, He often explained them with another Parable.
Over and over, the Apostles did not understand.
It has been said there are four layers of understanding the teachings of Jesus, Here we see Jesus said three things,so three time four and we have twelve interpretations, funny how that works out when I am sure all twelve disciples would come away with different ideas for any givin thing He might say,as this Gospel demonstrates in the beginning of the verse.
What I will suggest to all reading about what He said to Thomas in private is backed up by what He already said below in the other Gospels and teachings.
concerning John 10:34 I know most people will say , Hey wait He is talking about Men in Psalm 82..or that just means we are all children of God, this is true but He said it for a reason. Do you think anyone interrupted Him when He spoke these things? I think not.
I think,and am most certain , ONE of the things He told Thomas was that in fact as I have shown above that HE WAS A GOD "Bani ELOHIM"
That we all who believe are.Not the Creator God or equal to Him,but in the way Jesus was teaching.
Could move mountains,raise the dead,claim to be a Son of God.And they, just as they tried to do to Jesus , would stone Him to death for blaspheme.
My friend, I see within these words a statement of fact, if you raise your head above the crowd you become a target. Jesus was preparing his chosen Apostles for the death sentence that awaited them. They proved themselves worthy. Fulfilled the Great Commission and went forward to their martyrdoms.
jeremysdemo
New member
good observations Joseph,
I am glad you did not complicate it with fancy words, I do hope you will be able to forgive me later if I go down that road! confession, I have traveled it too often!
there is a lot more I can share about this verse and others in relation to older traditions I am hoping to have time later.
I am glad you did not complicate it with fancy words, I do hope you will be able to forgive me later if I go down that road! confession, I have traveled it too often!
there is a lot more I can share about this verse and others in relation to older traditions I am hoping to have time later.
JosephR
New member
good observations Joseph,
I am glad you did not complicate it with fancy words, I do hope you will be able to forgive me later if I go down that road! confession, I have traveled it too often!
there is a lot more I can share about this verse and others in relation to older traditions I am hoping to have time later.
Oh I enjoy reading complex wording as long as I feel the person using it knows what it means lol.. I enjoy reading complex material,,Quantum Physics,Spiritual,esoteric material ect ect,
Its just I like to type like I talk,usually simple.. and Einstein said if you cant explain it simply then you simply dont understand it.
So use all the jargon your vocab has :up:
Cant wait to read and learn
lifeisgood
New member
There are literal words and then there are the literal meaning of the literal words. Just my 2 cents.
unknown
New member
Jesus spoke in parables in order to give more to those who had and take away from those who didn't.
In the NT we are told that at times the disciples were in need of further explanation. We see that Thomas is also the one in the NT who had the better answer for the question of who they thought He was.
I am in agreement with Bybee. When I went through my transformation back in '98-'99, I learned to see things differently than what the church teaches. Some of the people that knew me then would say how much like Jesus I was and ask me to pray for them but mostly they wanted me to do fundraisers for them. I had just gotten national press and had told the whole country what they need to do (Love your neighbor). When I tried to explain, they condemned my works. John Lennon's line "The way things are goin', they're gonna crucify me", kept playing in a loop in my head.
We are intentionally not told what Jesus said to Thomas in this saying. We can be sure whatever He said was true. My conclusion then is that people who don't understand these things really don't want to hear them. One reason they don't want to hear them is because it takes away from what they think they have.
In the NT we are told that at times the disciples were in need of further explanation. We see that Thomas is also the one in the NT who had the better answer for the question of who they thought He was.
I am in agreement with Bybee. When I went through my transformation back in '98-'99, I learned to see things differently than what the church teaches. Some of the people that knew me then would say how much like Jesus I was and ask me to pray for them but mostly they wanted me to do fundraisers for them. I had just gotten national press and had told the whole country what they need to do (Love your neighbor). When I tried to explain, they condemned my works. John Lennon's line "The way things are goin', they're gonna crucify me", kept playing in a loop in my head.
We are intentionally not told what Jesus said to Thomas in this saying. We can be sure whatever He said was true. My conclusion then is that people who don't understand these things really don't want to hear them. One reason they don't want to hear them is because it takes away from what they think they have.
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unknown
New member
Well, if that's all ya got, alrighty then.
jeremysdemo
New member
there is also a spiritual aspect of this I am hoping to get to later,
that fear of death is a good one to discuss and something the fallen aspects of God's creation try to utilize to keep the doors of spiritual growth closed.
there is a larger picture here besides being targets of other men as a result or raising our heads, and that is the born again aspect, the clearing of the door the Cherub stands in looking at it's own reflection, dying to ones self, so that the of light of Shekhinah from the burning rocks (ambers) can be seen, the cherub in Ezekiel seeks to occupy the North side of the Holy Mountain, which is supposed to be Elohims (the other polar side of God which man tried to divide into El to worship) this is hinted to in the Jacob and Esau story, *Joseph remember the Cherub is called a man in Ezekiel, it is and element of our own ego "soul". standing in Ezekiels doorway was a terrifying whirlwind and punishing fire, Ezekiel 1:4, Isaiah 14:13.
but I digress....
JosephR
New member
there is also a spiritual aspect of this I am hoping to get to later,
that fear of death is a good one to discuss and something the fallen aspects of God's creation try to utilize to keep the doors of spiritual growth closed.
there is a larger picture here besides being targets of other men as a result or raising our heads, and that is the born again aspect, the clearing of the door the Cherub stands in looking at it's own reflection, dying to ones self, so that the of light of Shekhinah from the burning rocks (ambers) can be seen, the cherub in Ezekiel seeks to occupy the North side of the Holy Mountain, which is supposed to be Elohims (the other polar side of God which man tried to divide into El to worship) this is hinted to in the Jacob and Esau story, *Joseph remember the Cherub is called a man in Ezekiel, it is and element of our own ego "soul". standing in Ezekiels doorway was a terrifying whirlwind and punishing fire, Ezekiel 1:4, Isaiah 14:13.
but I digress....
Ahh yes I have looked into the worship of El and YhVH and read a book about meeting yourself,or guardian angel. very insightful and I am very interested in learning all about these things.
jeremysdemo
New member
and Jesus spoke of that also,
Matthew 25:29
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath
Thomas
41) Jesus said, "Whoever has something in his hand will receive more, and whoever has nothing will be deprived of even the little he has."
unknown
New member
If I believe anything at all, I believe this.