the church

[brewmama]

Sigh... so the Eucharist is till valid without the cup?

You are reading something into it that just isn't there... this CANNOT be a Eucharist.

The perfect example of what Jesus was talking about:He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

You have no proof that there was no cup- you think they really didn't have one?

 

[HisServant]

The perfect example of what Jesus was talking about:He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

You have no proof that there was no cup- you think they really didn't have one?

And this is the typical convoluted thinking that Catholics have... they think that anything is permissible in the absense of scripture.

If it was the Eucharist, don't you think the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD would have included such an important detail.

All you are doing is wishing something to be there that isn't.

Which is why Romanism never passes the stink test... the vast majority of its dogmas and doctrines are developed out of the silence of scripture.... thereby making the Holy Spirit an idiot.

 

[brewmama]

And this is the typical convoluted thinking that Catholics have... they think that anything is permissible in the absense of scripture.

If it was the Eucharist, don't you think the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD would have included such an important detail.

All you are doing is wishing something to be there that isn't.

Which is why Romanism never passes the stink test... the vast majority of its dogmas and doctrines are developed out of the silence of scripture.... thereby making the Holy Spirit an idiot.

How DO you explain that they did not recognize Him until He broke the bread, which according to you is just some common ordinary meal?
And you think MY explanation doesn't make sense?? :rotfl:

 

[HisServant]

How DO you explain that they did not recognize Him until He broke the bread, which according to you is just some common ordinary meal?
And you think MY explanation doesn't make sense?? :rotfl:

All you have to do is look into the Old Testament... such a thing has happened before.

Seriously, your opinion on this is borne out of ignorance of scripture.

The answer is that Jesus DID NOT WANT THEM TO KNOW it was him...

 

[jamie]

You have no proof that there was no cup- you think they really didn't have one?

Well, we know there was a cup when Jesus ate the symbolic bread and drank the symbolic wine with his friends.

Human flesh is not acceptable for food according to Mosaic law and Jesus never ate it.

 

[brewmama]

All you have to do is look into the Old Testament... such a thing has happened before.

Seriously, your opinion on this is borne out of ignorance of scripture.

The answer is that Jesus DID NOT WANT THEM TO KNOW it was him...

He didn't want them to know Him until He broke the bread?? Why?

Go ahead, dig yourself in deeper.

 

[HisServant]

He didn't want them to know Him until He broke the bread?? Why?

Go ahead, dig yourself in deeper.

The only person digging themselves deeper is you.

Your ignorance of scripture is just plain astounding... and you call yourself a Christian?

The reason for Christ doing this... was for people like you!. People that think they know him, but in reality they do not!

 

[brewmama]

The only person digging themselves deeper is you.

Your ignorance of scripture is just plain astounding... and you call yourself a Christian?

The reason for Christ doing this... was for people like you!. People that think they know him, but in reality they do not!

So you have no answer. I thought as much.

 

[God's Truth]

Here are scriptures to show that there is not real presence in the bread and wine. John 6:60-64.

Catholics believe that the priest can turn wafers into Jesus’ real body.
A special box holds these wafers, the supposed body of Christ.
There is even a service called Adoration, whereas parishioners can come to church, sit, and pray near the box of wafers, that box that they believe has the real body of Jesus.

Catholics believe they can turn wine into the blood of Jesus. Jesus died once—on the cross, and the blood of Jesus shed once—on the cross. Jesus is not in a wafer. No one is turning the wafer into the body of Christ. No one is turning wine into Jesus’ blood.

Catholics believe that the Lord’s Supper is a sacrifice, a sacrifice every Mass where the priest turns the wafers into Jesus’ body. Catholics believe they are experiencing a miracle when the priest does this. No wonder Catholic teachings are that missing a Mass is sin. However, read what the word of God says. The word of God tells us that Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb. In the Old Testament day after day every priest performs his religious duties again and again, offering the same sacrifices. However, when Jesus offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, see Hebrews 10:12. Did you hear that? Jesus offered for ALL time ONE SACRIFICE for sins. Jesus is not in a wafer, he is at the right hand of the Father.

By one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy, see Hebrews 10:14. By “one sacrifice,” not a daily or weekly sacrifice of turning the wafers into the body of Christ, over and over again, by many priests all over the world.

We have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all, see Hebrews 10:10. How hard is that for anyone to understand that we have been made holy THROUGH the BODY of Jesus Christ ONCE for all?

Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself, see Hebrews 9:24-26. Jesus has appeared
ONCE for ALL, not again and again in a wafer.

 

[brewmama]

Here are scriptures to show that there is not real presence in the bread and wine. John 6:60-64.

Blahdy blah blah.

No scriptures to prove this point, just a claim that no one disagrees with, that Jesus died once and for all for our sins.

Ignoring Jesus's injunction to continue the Eucharist. Hey, your loss.

 

[HisServant]

So you have no answer. I thought as much.

Nope... the example I showed is perfectly valid.

Jesus had a history of hiding his identity, both in the Old and New Testament, from people who thought they were with the right crowd and doing things right.

He did so to reveal to them that they actually had not clue about him.

Which is exactly the same problem you and your church have... your tradition = Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

No scriptures to prove this point, just a claim that no one disagrees with, that Jesus died once and for all for our sins.

Ignoring Jesus's injunction to continue the Eucharist. Hey, your loss.

Don't change a quote.

Jesus offered his body ONCE.

Jesus does not offer his body repeatedly in a wafer.

That is scripture.

What you teach is some ridiculous nonsense of your church being able to preform a sacrilegious act that you think is holy.

 

[brewmama]

Don't change a quote.

Jesus offered his body ONCE.

Jesus does not offer his body repeatedly in a wafer.

That is scripture.

What you teach is some ridiculous nonsense of your church being able to preform a sacrilegious act that you think is holy.

You have no clue what you are talking about. No one said Jesus is killed over and over. Just that partaking of His body and blood, as He instructed us, puts in mystical communion with Him, which is where I want to be. If you don't then again, it's your loss.

Come back when you have a clue that you understand anything about the patristic Church.

 

[HisServant]

You have no clue what you are talking about. No one said Jesus is killed over and over. Just that partaking of His body and blood, as He instructed us, puts in mystical communion with Him, which is where I want to be. If you don't then again, it's your loss.

Come back when you have a clue that you understand anything about the patristic Church.

Christianity is not a mystical or spiritual faith. It's tenets are so simple that even children understand all they need to know.

Those who try and make it complicated are being used by Satan.

 

[KingdomRose]

...who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. (1 Peter 3:20)​

You should have read verse 20.

:readthis:

Don't ever think I don't read ALL of the verses surrounding a scripture. I have read verse 20 a thousand times. You'd best rethink what you said.

 

[KingdomRose]

Are you of the opinion that our Lord Jesus Christ was unaware of Leviticus 17:11-14 when He said John 6:53-56?
Because I'm not.
I believe He knew very well Leviticus 17:11-14 when He said John 6:53-56.
And that means something very important.
And I don't think that you really understand it.

Yes I understand it. You apparently do not. It is very clear that to eat [or, certainly, take it in any way into one's body] blood is forbidden by God. So it would be anathema to God for anyone to imbibe Jesus' literal blood.

 

[KingdomRose]

You have to really twist things around to avoid the very clear point of that story- which is that the eucharist enables us to recognize Christ even more than reading the Scriptures, but I know that's what you do. You are changing it quite a bit, for example it wasn't "after the meal" that they recognized Him, it was when He took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were opened.

What did He say to them "after the meal," as opposed to what He said to them all day long? Nothing in the Scriptures about it. Total twisting on your part.

Don't you read other posts here? There is NOTHING in that Emmaus account that says that Jesus was instituting or re-instituting the Eucharist. It was a regular meal. The scripture itself says that it was after the breaking of bread (which even people today call having a MEAL) that the disciples understood.

You go beyond what the scriptures are actually saying.

 

[KingdomRose]

They most certainly did not.

They most certainly DID.

 

[KingdomRose]

You are clueless as to how the host is handled and maintained, at least in our Church.

Did I say anything about how you handle the host in your Church?

 

[KingdomRose]

You are mixed up. The scriptures say that when Jesus died on the cross he went to prison in the Spirit.



Why would Jesus preach the gospel to demons so they could obey?

The demons are not offered salvation.

You are speaking much error.

No, YOU are misunderstanding. Read the scripture.

Christ was "made alive in the spirit; in which also he went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient...in the days of Noah."

He was MADE ALIVE. Does it say "while his body was in the grave"? No it just says he was made alive. During the three days? Or AFTER the three days? Does it say? No, but it makes sense, considering that the Bible says that the dead are conscious of NOTHING, that it was AFTER the three days. THEN he was resurrected "in the spirit."

Then he went, in the spirit (which verse 19 specifically says), and proclaimed to the disobedient angels that had sinned in Noah's day....most likely that the redemption of mankind had been accomplished. He didn't speak to them "so that they could obey." You tirelessly put words in other peoples' mouths. I never said that. Those fallen angels had once been his friends, eons and eons ago. Why wouldn't he go and speak to them about the success of Jehovah's plans? Probably like an "I told you so" type proclamation. This is what The New Testament/Recovery Version, 1985, says in a footnote:

"The most acceptable [interpretation] according to the Scriptures is as follows: the spirits here refer not to the disembodied spirits of dead human beings but to the angels (angels are spirits--Heb.1:14) who fell through disobedience at Noah's time and are imprisoned in pits of gloom, awaiting the judgment of the great day. (2Peter 2:4,5; Jude 6) After his death in the flesh, Christ went to these rebellious angels to proclaim, perhaps, God's victory, accomplished through Christ's death in the flesh, over Satan's scheme to derange the divine plan." (Living Stream Ministry)

So there you have it.