dodge
New member
You would have to actually believe and trust the word of God to be qualified to assess ANYTHING about another who actually believes and trusts God.
the church
- Thread starter chrysostom
- Start date
You would have to actually believe and trust the word of God to be qualified to assess ANYTHING about another who actually believes and trusts God.
catch 22 anyone?
dodge
New member
I said one would to have to actually believe and trust God's word NOT trust and follow a pope,Mary, or men who follow other men and ignore God.
dodge
New member
So did God break His own word and allow the RCC to bow before idols, pray to dead folks and Mary, and replace the Holy Spirit with a pope ?
God's Truth
New member
The dead and scary teaching the dead and scared.
God's Truth
New member
You are backwards and decrepit.
God's Truth
New member
You keep giving the words of mere men, and you fail to see that the thoughts of men are put there by Satan, the prince of the air.
The Pharisees were Scripture alone also. That's why Paul was a pharisee, because he was Scripture alone also. The Old Testament was written to Israel. So was all Israel the Church until AD 50, when either Galatians or 1st Thessalonians was written by the Apostle Paul, or just the Pharisees?
What distinguished the Church from all Israel up to AD 50? Acts tells us, but Acts wasn't written yet.
Everything you just stated is a LIE. We do none of those things. You used to lie when I was here before and you still do. That's really sad. The Catholic Church is the True Church of God.
dodge
New member
Your church is so corrupt it has God as a side note. Your church is all about Mary, your pope a a long list of living lies and changing God's word to make money and imprison folks it lies and deceptions, sadly.
You would not know truth because you ignore God's word to follow men. YOUR loss not mine.
The true church are those in Christ NOT those in the RCC whore house.
That's Paul's fault then. Titus 1:5 (KJV) Cf. Titus 1:7 (KJV).
Cruciform
New member
Of course, that's patented nonsense. The myriad man-made Protestant sects have any number of competing and contradictory interpretations of the Bible, including yours. It's on this very basis that such sects have separated from Christ's one historic Church and from one another over the past five centuries. You interpret Scripture every bit as much as does everyone else who reads the Bible. You are certainly no exception.
If you knew Church history you'd be a Catholic.
A brief excerpt from "Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth" (source link):
QUOTE:
Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)
Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.
Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.
The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.
Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.
FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH
If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.
The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.
The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).
The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.
The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.
Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth
Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.
The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).
Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.
END EXCERPT QUOTE
Cruciform
New member
You have not yet been glorified in heaven so you are---to that degree---"separated from God." You are not as close to God as you one day will be after the general resurrection of believers (assuming you actually become a Christian at some point). Therefore, according to you, you are now "in hell/prison, condemnation." Correct?
Last edited:
Cruciform
New member
Proof, please. :yawn:
You're aware that Tertullian was a wholehearted, full-blown, dyed-in-the-wool Catholic who believed and defended all the Catholic doctrines of his day, and adamantly rejected the notion of "Scripture alone," right? :think:
Cruciform
New member
There were no "extra books." Rather, the so-called "reformers" deliberately removed seven books from the Old Testament on the basis of their (the Protestants') newly-invented theology. Once again, your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect has simply misinformed you.
Last edited:
Only in part. They still reject those who Christ appointed, and therefore reject Christ's will and commands.
Cruciform
New member
Great, since I wholeheartedly believe and trust the word of God---just not the interpretations of God's word that you've been fed by your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. Big difference there.
Cruciform
New member
I trust in the authoritative interpretations/teachings of the Magisterium (bishops) of Christ's one historic Catholic Church, just as you trust in the fallible interpretations/opinions of your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. Everyone---Catholic and Protestant alike---follows a particular doctrinal tradition. You are no exception.