Theology Club: The Beginning of the Present Dispensation Was at Acts 13

[heir]

When did one begin and the other begin?

The question is, why do you make them all the same when they're not?

Paul did not start preaching those things until Acts 13.

You've made quite a mess of things as Paul was not sent to all men to testify the gospel of the grace of God until much later.

So the first sending of Paul was at Acts 26 and the second was at Acts 22?

Anyone who can read can see that Luke was recording Paul's first sending in Acts 26 and records the second sending in Acts 22 starting at verse 17.

As usual you make no sense.

As usual, you do not allow the Holy Ghost to teach you anything by comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[heir]

At Acts 22 Paul is speaking about what happened earlier. How do we know that? Because he was told by the Lord to depart and go to the Gentiles:

"And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles" (Acts 22:21).​

So the event described here happened before Paul went to the Gentiles at Acts 13. And that is exactly what is referred to here at Acts 26:17:

"Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee" (Acts 26:17).​

Therefore, it is ridiculous to argue, as Heir does, that the events described at Acts 26:17 and Acts 13 preceded the events described at Acts 22.

Look at JS muddying things that differ! "Now I send thee" and "will send thee" are not the same thing!

Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

They're not the same thing, the same sending and not even the same Gentiles!

Get a KJBible to approve things that are excellent (Philippians 1:9-10 KJV) and study to shew thyself approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15), JS!

 

[heir]

According to her uninformed opinion Paul had already gone to the Gentiles BEFORE the Lord told him to depart and go to the Gentiles. And youobviously agree with her nonsense.

Those who are uninformed are those such as yourself with your nose in your favorite commentaries instead of the word of God!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Those who are uninformed are those such as yourself with your nose in your favorite commentaries instead of the word of God!

You put more faith in what is said in the Neo-MAD commentaries than you do in what the Scriptures actually say. Or perhaps you do not believe what those commentaries say about the requirements for salvation for the Jews who lived under the law--that they could not be saved unless they believed and did works?

Or do you believe the Lord Jesus' words here spoken to the Jews who lived under the law?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

The Lord Jesus makes it plain that these Jews were saved when they believed and therefore no works were necessary for their salvation.

Do you believe that?

Look at JS muddying things that differ! "Now I send thee" and "will send thee" are not the same thing!

Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

According to you uninformed ideas the Lord told Paul that He will send Him to the Gentiles even though Paul had already gone to the Gentiles!

Your Neo-MAD ideas have done nothing but confuse you.

 

[Danoh]

Indeed, even as the dispensation of God committed to Paul and the form of sound words filled up the word of God, the dispensation fills up the times in the word of God. Paul filling up the afflictions of Christ in his own body to get this message out coincides, as well.

We differ in our understanding, more than I had thought, brother, I view Ephesians 1:10 as a reference to a passage like 1 Corinthians 15:24, and visa-versa.

While I am at it, I do not view Acts 22 as a reference to another commission anymore than I do Acts 13 as different from Acts 9.

What we have here, at least represented here on this forum at this time, are three views:

The Acts 9:6 view as one commission from Acts 9 thru Philemon.

Jerry's two gospels of Paul - on ongoing one to the Jews from Acts 9 to Acts 28, and at the same time another - to the Gentiles from Acts 13 forward...

And the view you and yours hold to, STP - a Mystery gospel that begin in Acts 9, and was prophesied, and another Mystery that began near the close of Acts, and was hid in God.

Personally, I'm fine with all that.

Though fascinated by its exploration, I do not feel the need to lord my own understanding on others.

Which is what I appreciate about you and yours, STP. You and yours differ with others in your understanding, while not needing to hound after them, attempting to lord your view over them.

You are to be commended for "your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope."

Amazing, isn't it - that we can differ on where that faith began, perhaps even on aspects of what its labour is, and yet allow the patience of its hope to guide how we handle our differences.

Personally, I would that even the 28ers could come and explore our differences.

But many within all views simply have no patience for the hounding, crude, rude, condescending attitude of the Jerry Shugarts of the world.

 

[Danoh]

She said nothing which answers the points I made about what Heir said.

if you and Heir and Danoh are right then we must believe that Paul had already gone to the Gentiles and then later the Lord told him to depart from Jerusalem and go to the Gentiles.

What are you referring to when you speak of the "cursing side" which was post Acts?

Just shows you are simply not up to handling what you would lord over others - that only you are supposedly able to read between the lines.

You are in fact, incompetent at that very simple skill.

Fact is I do not see eye to eye with them on this issue.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

But many within all views simply have no patience for the hounding, crude, rude, condescending attitude of the Jerry Shugarts of the world.

Once again, when you cannot answer the message you attack the messenger!

You did not even attempt to answer what I said to you here:

Clearly, you just flat out refuse to believe the Scriptures when those Scriptures contradict your ideas. For instance, you refuse to believe what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the law here:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Here the Lord Jesus makes it plain that the Jews who lived under the law only had to believe in order to be saved.

But His words mean nothing to you because even after being shown His words you say that they could not be saved until they believed and were baptized with water.

Anyone who would believe anything which you say should know in advance that your ideas are contradicted by the Scriptures.

 

[heir]

Danoh, the Great:

The greatest eye opener in my life is when I realized that Paul preached to Gentiles that fell on each side of this promise. The blessing side (Acts), and the cursing side (post Acts). And they, by the grace of God, became one.

Gen 12:1-3 (KJV)

:e4e:

For me too! I FINALLY could know without a shadow of a doubt, where it is that we fit in to God's glorious mystery plan and opened up the word of God for me in study. It made me see what is the fellowship of the mystery!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

For me too! I FINALLY could know without a shadow of a doubt, where it is that we fit in to God's glorious mystery plan and opened up the word of God for me in study. It made me see what is the fellowship of the mystery!

What is the "curse" which was post-Acts spoken of here by STP?:

"The greatest eye opener in my life is when I realized that Paul preached to Gentiles that fell on each side of this promise. The blessing side (Acts), and the cursing side (post Acts). And they, by the grace of God, became one."​

 

[Danoh]

Once again, when you cannot answer the message you attack the messenger!

You did not even attempt to answer what I said to you here:

Clearly, you just flat out refuse to believe the Scriptures when those Scriptures contradict your ideas. For instance, you refuse to believe what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the law here:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Here the Lord Jesus makes it plain that the Jews who lived under the law only had to believe in order to be saved.

But His words mean nothing to you because even after being shown His words you say that they could not be saved until they believed and were baptized with water.

Anyone who would believe anything which you say should know in advance that your ideas are contradicted by the Scriptures.

You've yet to note I address you directly on one issue only - your rude, crude, hounding, condescending manner, despite your obvious incompetence.

Anyone else, I will explore the issues with, at length, and without any struggle to present my understanding and the relevant passages.

Twist that how you will... for you will... thus why I deal with you on the one issue I deal with directly on, and in the way I do.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

What is the "curse" which was post-Acts spoken of here by STP?:

"The greatest eye opener in my life is when I realized that Paul preached to Gentiles that fell on each side of this promise. The blessing side (Acts), and the cursing side (post Acts). And they, by the grace of God, became one."​

Two different types of Gentiles, made one.


1. Some Gentiles believed in the God of Abraham, and were found in the synagogue. They would have been in the promise.

2. Some Gentiles were pagans and denied the God of Abraham. They were outside of the promise.


Paul was sent first to Jews and the first type of Gentile. Later, Paul's ministry expanded and he was sent to all, including the pagan Gentiles.

Both groups became One in the Body of Christ.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

For me too! I FINALLY could know without a shadow of a doubt, where it is that we fit in to God's glorious mystery plan and opened up the word of God for me in study. It made me see what is the fellowship of the mystery!

:up:

Indeed, sister.

The mystery that he would conclude them all in unbelief that he may have mercy upon all is what we needed, an opened door.

With the casting away of Israel by the close of Acts, this door was opened to North Carolinians, Texans, and Michiganites who never had any affiliation with that Israel or had any claim to the promise of Genesis 12.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You've yet to note I address you directly on one issue only - your rude, crude, hounding, condescending manner, despite your obvious incompetence.

When you cannot answer the message you attack the messenger. According to you the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved unless they believed and then were baptized with water.

And you continue to insist that you are right even though you have been shown that the Lord Jesus' words here spoken to those Jews prove that they were saved by faith alone:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

You obviously do not care if your teaching is contradicted by the Lord Jesus.

You think that if you attack my character enough the words of the Lord Jesus spoken by the Lord Jesus at John 5:24 will just go away.

That will never happen and His words will be a constant reminder of your unbelief.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Two different types of Gentiles, made one.

1. Some Gentiles believed in the God of Abraham, and were found in the synagogue. They would have been in the promise.

2. Some Gentiles were pagans and denied the God of Abraham. They were outside of the promise.


Paul was sent first to Jews and the first type of Gentile. Later, Paul's ministry expanded and he was sent to all, including the pagan Gentiles.

Both groups became One in the Body of Christ.

Why did you not answer my question?:

What is the "curse" which was post-Acts which you spoke of here?:

"The greatest eye opener in my life is when I realized that Paul preached to Gentiles that fell on each side of this promise. The blessing side (Acts), and the cursing side (post Acts). And they, by the grace of God, became one."​

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Why did you not answer my question?:

What is the "curse" which was post-Acts which you spoke of here?:

"The greatest eye opener in my life is when I realized that Paul preached to Gentiles that fell on each side of this promise. The blessing side (Acts), and the cursing side (post Acts). And they, by the grace of God, became one."​

I did not say there was a curse post Acts.

Those Gentiles who previously would have been under the curse of Genesis 12, were now accepted, post Acts.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You've yet to note I address you directly on one issue only - your rude, crude, hounding, condescending manner, despite your obvious incompetence.

Of course you do that constantly because you are unable to deal with the verses which I quote. I can only conclude that this verse describes you perfectly:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

1. Some Gentiles believed in the God of Abraham, and were found in the synagogue. They would have been in the promise.

2. Some Gentiles were pagans and denied the God of Abraham. They were outside of the promise.

Paul was sent first to Jews and the first type of Gentile. Later, Paul's ministry expanded and he was sent to all, including the pagan Gentiles.

Both groups became One in the Body of Christ.

Do you really believe that almost the whole city of Antioch believed in the God of Abraham and were found in the synagogues of the Jews?:

"And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:44-48).​

It is obvious that Paul was preaching to Gentiles and not to just the ones who believed in the God of Abraham, and were found in the synagogues of the Jews.

So your idea that Paul only preached to the Gentiles who believed in the God of Abraham and were found in the synagogues of the Jews during the Acts period is easily proven to be a blunder.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Do you really believe that almost the whole city of Antioch believed in the God of Abraham and were found in the synagogues of the Jews?:

"And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:44-48).​

It is obvious that Paul was preaching to Gentiles and not to just the ones who believed in the God of Abraham, and were found in the synagogues of the Jews.

So your idea that Paul only preached to the Gentiles who believed in the God of Abraham and were found in the synagogues of the Jews during the Acts period is easily proven to be a blunder.

They came to the synagogue. Right there in Acts 13, you read it.


Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

They didn't meet at the McDonalds.


Who was this salvation sent to, according to Paul?


Acts 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.


Which Gentiles were left out? Pagans.


Simple stuff.

 

[patrick jane]

They came to the synagogue. Right there in Acts 13, you read it.


Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

They didn't meet at the McDonalds.


Who was this salvation sent to, according to Paul?


Acts 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.


Which Gentiles were left out? Pagans.


Simple stuff.

yes. clarity -

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

yes. clarity -

Yes, PJ.

If Paul preached the gospel to any pagan Gentiles, they came to Paul and listened.

Paul was not SENT to pagan Gentiles, until later. They Lord told him in the temple vision, "I WILL send thee far hence unto the Gentiles".