The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

musterion

Well-known member
Faith is not of ourselves.


Yes it is. God condemns those who refuse to believe BECAUSE they refuse to believe, not because He didn't enable them to. That alone proves faith is of ourselves...the capacity is within all. He put it there. Hence His just condemning of those who could believe, but won't.
 

MennoSota

New member
Yes it is. God condemns those who refuse to believe BECAUSE they refuse to believe, not because He didn't enable them to. That alone proves faith is of ourselves...the capacity is within all. He put it there. Hence His just condemning of those who could believe, but won't.
You have just given yourself reason to brag about how your self created faith has saved you. Go ahead and start boasting.
You seem ignorant of scripture. Jesus disagrees with you.
John 6:35-40
Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 10:25-30
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
John 17:22-26
The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
 

musterion

Well-known member
You have just given yourself reason to brag about how your self created faith has saved you. Go ahead and start boasting.

Do you ever not lie? Or are you just really that stupid?

The helpless drowning victim, powerless to save himself and sure to perish, has nothing to boast of in being saved by one with the power to save him. It's that simple.

Cease your ignorant blasphemy.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Notice, how shall He not with Him ALSO freely give us all things ! The Us here are those whom Christ was delivered up for, every last one of them. Remember He was delivered for their offences Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

So when God gave His Son for those He did die for Jn 3:16

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

When God gave His Son for that World of People in Jn 3:16, He gave also with Him, that word with the prep syn means accompany or come along with, to join !

In other words With God giving Christ for those He gave Him for, Joined with Giving Christ was also all things given freely that results in their full and complete Salvation, as the writer of Hebrews indicate Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation or Christ, though we thus speak.

Christ is Our Salvation if we are indeed saved ! Ps 68:20

He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto God the Lord belong the issues from death.

Christ in His Death was given as a Covenant of the People Isa 42:6-7

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

With Christ He gives them Spiritual Sight, opens up their spiritually blind eyes to See the Son, their Covenant Jn 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

You have to see Him to believe on Him, and so is given them release from the prison of unbelief and spiritual darkness.

See unbelief is an imprisonment. Paul writes in Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

That word concluded is the greek word sygkleiō and it means:

I.to shut up together, enclose

II.to shut up on all sides, shut up completely

That's an imprisonment, God's Judgment for sin in Adam was to imprison, consign , enclose them in Unbelief or dispbedience for a Purpose of having mercy on them, through Christ being given to them a Covenant, and His Death shall be credited with bringing them out of the prison of unbelief and disobedience !

Also included in that giving them all things with Christ Rom 8:32, He gives them a New Heart to Believe Ezekiel 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

That's How they come to believe and Repent, because by giving them a New Heart and putting His Spirit in them, He causes them to keep His commandments and DO THEM !

So you see, everything for Salvation and living unto God was given along with Christ Rom 8:32 !

I know the followers of antichrist cannot receive this blessed Truth !


So True, and if they remain in unbelief of the Truth, it's because they were already condemned John 3:18, 36; vessels of wrath fitted for destruction Rom. 9:22 !


All God's Elect however, His Children / Sons Eph. 1:4-7; the ALL whom Christ was delivered up for Rom. 8:32; John 10:11, are given all things required to be Saved. And that includes Faith to believe on Him in New Birth Gal. 5:22; 1 Pet. 1:3.


Heb. 13:20-21

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


Rom. 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect [His Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23]? It is God that justifieth.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
nanja

So True, and if they remain in unbelief of the Truth, it's because they were already condemned John 3:18, 36; vessels of wrath fitted for destruction Rom. 9:22 !

You betcha !

All God's Elect however, His Children / Sons Eph. 1:4-7; the ALL whom Christ was delivered up for Rom. 8:32; John 10:11, are given all things required to be Saved. And that includes Faith to believe on Him in New Birth Gal. 5:22; 1 Pet. 1:3.

Yes 2 Pet 1:3

3 [FONT=&quot]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:[/FONT]
 

MennoSota

New member
Do you ever not lie? Or are you just really that stupid?

The helpless drowning victim, powerless to save himself and sure to perish, has nothing to boast of in being saved by one with the power to save him. It's that simple.

Cease your ignorant blasphemy.
You literally provide nothing in your post, other than a spirit of hate.
 

aikido7

BANNED
Banned
The theology of blood atonement was not fully developed untill some 900 years after Jesus’ death by Christian theologian Anselm of Canterbury.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Christ's own testimony is that His death alone saves those He died for, by this He speaks in Jn 12:23-24

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jesus here is stating how the Son of man shall be Glorified, by indicating the sure effects of His Death of His dying. He is that Corn of wheat that which fall into the Ground and dies [signifying His Death] and by that bringeth forth fruit much fruit !

This fruit that His dying produces is Salvation, the Conversion of Souls, New Life ! To deny this is to deny His very words, and shows that we are against Him and His Cross, its in fact antichrist !


Yes indeed, and an insult to the Death of Christ to teach that those He Died for and was Risen in behalf of, are never born again [begotten again 1 Pet. 1:3]. For it's His Resurrection which displays the fruit of His Death: New Life Spiritually !
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Yes indeed, and an insult to the Death of Christ to teach that those He Died for and was Risen in behalf of, are never born again [begotten again 1 Pet. 1:3]. For it's His Resurrection which displays the fruit of His Death: New Life Spiritually !

Those who have accepted Romans 10:9-13 are saved. So what is your problem?
 

Oleander

New member
Doe's the blood sacrifices command from God or command from moses?
Did the blood covered all sins, or small unintentional sins?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
[h=2]Made Righteous by His Faithfulness/Obedience ![/h]
As the Surety of His People, His Sheep, His Suretyship obedience/faithfulness consiteth in these two regards for them #1 The debt they owed to perfect obedience to the law, precepts of God and #2 and the debt they owed to the violation of Gods Law, hence the suffering and penalty due.
 
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