The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[Nanja]

Amen Sister and that is the seed that shall serve Him Ps 22:30

A seed*shall*serve*him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

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Yes, and this Seed is the Israel of God, jew and gentile, from all races of the earth Rev. 5:9.

Is. 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Yes, and this Seed is the Israel of God, jew and gentile, from all races of the earth Rev. 5:9.

Is. 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

~~~~~

Yes.

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[beloved57]

Makes us Righteous, Law Keepers !

Everyone Christ lived and died for, by it, were made righteous, or keepers/doers of the law. Rom 5:19

¹⁹ For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Now Christ's obedience started from the cradle to the cross, to include the cross Phil 2:8 and that made those He represented righteous. That word righteous in Rom 5:19 is the greek word dikaios: and means:

just; especially, just in the eyes of God; righteous; the elect, in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping [or obedience to] the commands of God;

You see, all the obedience man owed to the law of God, Christ rendered it to Gods Law for the many He represented Rom 5:19. So in truth and fact, those Christ lived and died for are those who Paul writes of here Rom 2:13

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

The doers of the law ! And whats the promise unto the doers of the law ? They shall be Justified !
The word justified in this verse is the greek word dikaioō

1. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
   
   It comes from the word dikaios, the word for righteous in Rom 5:19
   
   All for whom Christ lived and died are automatically become doers of the Law. What God did, God imputed Christ's obedience to the law for all the many He was a Surety representative in behalf of Rom 5:19, He charged it to their account, so they have received, they incognizant of it, a righteousness charged to their account that has fully obeyed Gods Law as fully as Christ did while He was living upon the earth.
   
   This is a Truth that cannot be believed by false religion !

 

[beloved57]

It makes us dead to the law !

Paul wrote to the believers in Rome these words Rom 7:4

⁴ Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

How does one become dead to the Law ? Simple, it happens for all whom Christ died. Everyone Christ died for became dead to the law by that simple fact alone, His death. It did not happen when they repented and or believed in Jesus, it occured before that, in fact it happened before they were even born sinners. All sinners Christ died for are born into this world as sinners but dead to the law, meaning the law of God cannot charge them with any sins against God ! For sin is transgression of the law 1 Jn 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 Cor 15:56

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Thats right, every sinner Christ died for, and who by nature is walking like this Eph 2:2-3

² Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


³ Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


They are dead to the Law, they cannot by God be charged with any transgressions against it whatsoever. This Truth cannot be received by the lost religionist !

Christ death alone accomplished this, it makes every sinner it was for, dead to the law !

 

[beloved57]

Fulfilled in us the righteousness of the law !


Rom 8:3-4

³ For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:


⁴ That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For all men who were blessed to have Christ as their Surety, when He lived and died in their stead, the righteousness of the law was fulfilled in them. This is by imputation, all of the moral requirements of righteousness due unto God by man, to be summed up here Matt 22:37-39


³⁷ Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.


³⁸ This is the first and great commandment.


³⁹ And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

⁴⁰ On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Paul wrote in Rom 13:8-10


⁸ Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.


⁹ For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


¹⁰ Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The Life and death of Christ has fulfilled this love required to the law.

Rom 5:19

¹⁹ For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Christ's obedience to the Law of God, both active and passive is imputed to all for whom He lived and died. So He being their surety savior is the end of the law for righteousness to eveyone that believeth. He as their surety is also the author of their believing, for they first believed in and by Him, His obedience to the Law for them was also by Faith, because without Faith its impossible to please God Heb 11:6 which Christ did please God as our surety here on earth , rendering complete obedience to Gods law ! Isa 42:21

²¹ The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

 

[Nanja]

Fulfilled in us the righteousness of the law !


Rom 8:3-4

³ For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:


⁴ That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For all men who were blessed to have Christ as their Surety, when He lived and died in their stead, the righteousness of the law was fulfilled in them. This is by imputation, all of the moral requirements of righteousness due unto God by man, to be summed up here Matt 22:37-39


³⁷ Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.


³⁸ This is the first and great commandment.


³⁹ And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

⁴⁰ On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Paul wrote in Rom 13:8-10


⁸ Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.


⁹ For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


¹⁰ Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The Life and death of Christ has fulfilled this love required to the law.

Rom 5:19

¹⁹ For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Christ's obedience to the Law of God, both active and passive is imputed to all for whom He lived and died. So He being their surety savior is the end of the law for righteousness to eveyone that believeth. He as their surety is also the author of their believing, for they first believed in and by Him, His obedience to the Law for them was also by Faith, because without Faith its impossible to please God Heb 11:6 which Christ did please God as our surety here on earth , rendering complete obedience to Gods law ! Isa 42:21

²¹ The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Those for whom Christ was their Surety Heb. 7:22 before the foundation of the world 1 Pet. 1:19-20, they shall come to realize that their keeping God's Commandments in a blameless manner was already accomplished solely by His Perfect Obedience on their behalf, and that their Righteousness is totally outside of themselves; not by any act of faith or obedience to God of their own.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

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Those for whom Christ was their Surety Heb. 7:22 before the foundation of the world 1 Pet. 1:19-20, they shall come to realize that their keeping God's Commandments in a blameless manner was already accomplished solely by His Perfect Obedience on their behalf, and that their Righteousness is totally outside of themselves; not by any act of faith or obedience to God of their own.

~~~~~

Absolutely!

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[Cross Reference]

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Those for whom Christ was their Surety Heb. 7:22 before the foundation of the world 1 Pet. 1:19-20, they shall come to realize that their keeping God's Commandments in a blameless manner was already accomplished solely by His Perfect Obedience on their behalf, and that their Righteousness is totally outside of themselves; not by any act of faith or obedience to God of their own.

~~~~~

A very untrue declaration. Straight from the pit.

 

[Nanja]

A very untrue declaration. Straight from the pit.

The natural man, such as yourself, is in rebellion against the Gospel of God's Grace
because it proves his total inability to do anything to get himself saved.


Before a person can spiritually hear / understand God's Word which is Spiritual,
he must first be given a new heart / mind Ezek. 36:26-27 in New Birth: Born of the Spirit of God.
Before that, he's completely lost, spiritually dead, and blinded 2 Cor. 4:3-4.


John 8:43, 47
v.43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
v.47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


You see, the only hope one has of hearing / understanding God's Word is that he / she is made spiritually alive first, quickened by the Spirit, Born of God, which they receive of God passively.


Mat. 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

~~~~~

 

[Cross Reference]

The natural man, such as yourself, is in rebellion against the Gospel of God's Grace
because it proves his total inability to do anything to get himself saved.

Why don't you grow up? Get off the issue of salvation and get moving in the things of God as He commanded you to? You are a waste of anyones time!

Before a person can spiritually hear / understand God's Word which is Spiritual,
he must first be given a new heart / mind Ezek. 36:26-27 in New Birth: Born of the Spirit of God.
Before that, he's completely lost, spiritually dead, and blinded 2 Cor. 4:3-4.

Practice what you preach. Get saved.

 

[Nanja]

Why don't you grow up? Get off the issue of salvation and get moving in the things of God as He commanded you to? You are a waste of anyones time!

Practice what you preach. Get saved.

You will never hear me preach to anyone 'get saved'.

For Salvation rests exclusively upon God's Sovereign choosing Eph. 1:4-5, according to His Purpose and Grace, to all the Election of Grace, given them in their Head and Surety Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~~

 

[Cross Reference]

You will never hear me preach to anyone 'get saved'.

For Salvation rests exclusively upon God's Sovereign choosing Eph. 1:4-5, according to His Purpose and Grace, to all the Election of Grace, given them in their Head and Surety Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~~

Then obviously you have no clue whether or not you are saved. Perhaps that gives you some understanding re my previous post.

 

[Nanja]

Then obviously you have no clue whether or not you are saved. Perhaps that gives you some understanding re my previous post.

You missed it. And your conclusion makes no sense.

How can we preach to someone to 'get saved' when we don't know if they are one Christ died for?

For many were condemned already, and are under God's Wrath John 3:18, 36.

~~~~~

 

[Cross Reference]

You missed it. And your conclusion makes no sense.

I didn't miss anything. Since you believe God saves by decree, my question to you stands. How do you know you are saved; a person who Jesus died for??

How can we preach to someone to 'get saved' when we don't know if they are one Christ died for?

You should not preach at all if you are unsure of your own salvation.

For many were condemned already, and are under God's Wrath John 3:18, 36.

But never by His sovreignty but, by His foreknowledge. Your understanding of predestination doesn't cover that perspective, does it?

 

[Nanja]

In response to CR:


You will never hear me preach to anyone 'get saved'.

For Salvation rests exclusively upon God's Sovereign choosing Eph. 1:4-5, according to His Purpose and Grace, to all the Election of Grace, given them in their Head and Surety Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.


Further, I must add, that telling one to 'get saved' gives them a false impression that being saved in within the power of a person to meet some condition to bring about his own salvation status which is utterly false!


Jesus as God in the flesh, knew Nicodemus was one of His Elect Seed, Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4-5, so that's why He gave him the imperative "ye must be born again", for it shall happen, not only for Nicodemus, but also for every other Elect Child of God Rom. 8:33! We don't know who they all are, only God does!



Nanja

For many were condemned already, and are under God's Wrath John 3:18, 36.

CR

But never by His sovreignty but, by His foreknowledge. Your understanding of predestination doesn't cover that perspective, does it?

Incorrect! God is Sovereign over all His Creation.

God has Created Vessels of Wrath fitted for destruction Rom. 9:22
And has Created Vessels of Mercy which he afore prepared unto Glory Rom. 9:23!



Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


See, that's proof that God does not desire all men without exception to become saved:


Do you see any freewill of man in those verses?


God has the right to make his creatures for whatever purpose He so chooses and does whatever He desires with His Creation.


Only God's Will is Free and Sovereign and controls and determines all others' will.


How can an inhabitant of the earth that is reputed as nothing have been given a free will?
See how ridiculous that is?


Job 23:13-14
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

~~~~~

 

[Cross Reference]

In response to CR:

You will never hear me preach to anyone 'get saved'.

That ws written as sarcasm. Quick milking it as an excuse to not answer my question re how do you know you are saved?

For Salvation rests exclusively upon God's Sovereign choosing Eph. 1:4-5, according to His Purpose and Grace, to all the Election of Grace, given them in their Head and Surety Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.

So, once again, How do you know you are saved? Write it out so we all know your secret.

 

[Nanja]

That ws written as sarcasm. Quick milking it as an excuse to not answer my question re how do you know you are saved?

So, once again, How do you know you are saved? Write it out so we all know your secret.

All for whom Christ died, they shall receive the Adoption of Sons
by God sending the Spirit of His Son into their hearts Gal. 3:13-14; Gal. 4:4-7.

Rom. 8:14-16
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;
but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

This is how one shall know unmistakably that they are an Elect Child of God.

Those verses speak of a Covenant Promise to all the Seed of Christ, the many Mat. 26:28 whom He gave His Soul to be an offering for sin:

Is. 53:10-11
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

~~~~~

 

[Cross Reference]

All for whom Christ died, they shall receive the Adoption of Sons
by God sending the Spirit of His Son into their hearts Gal. 3:13-14; Gal. 4:4-7.

So where do you fit in? I think by that you are saying you got a 'funny feeling' and it saved you. Is that it?

 

[Nanja]

So where do you fit in? I think by that you are saying you got a 'funny feeling' and it saved you. Is that it?

You are guilty of blasphemy against God!

~~~~~

 

[Cross Reference]

You are guilty of blasphemy against God!

~~~~~

How so? I am only going by what you write. There is nothing wrong with having funny feelings as long as you don't build doctrines on them.