I think it is important for people to know that Jesus made savage attacks against family values and did so very, very often.
Standing Up To Rome
- Thread starter WeberHome
- Start date
Cruciform
New member
No. Sometimes individuals---including non-Catholics---interpret the Bible accurately, and come to authentic understandings of given passages. The point is that an individual has no objective and authoritative way of KNOWING that he's interpreted Scripture correctly, except by comparing his personal interpretation with the established teachings of Christ's one historic Church.
In short, doctrinal authority rest with the Magisterium (body of bishops) of Christ's Church, and not with the individual lay believer and his Bible (note that for the first millennium-and-a-half of Christian history, believers didn't even have Bibles!).
Which particular individual(s), then, in your opinion, possess the inherent doctrinal authority to infallibly and bindingly interpret the Bible in a manner which is binding upon all believers ? Please name these individuals.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
turbosixx
New member
Are we talking about the same “one historic church” that for 600 years tortured and killed an estimated 50 million people? The same church that refused to allow the bible to be translated into different languages and killed those who tried? The same church that year after year some form of corruption is discovered. The same church where homosexual (celibate) priests that have ruined numerous kids’ lives are allowed to continue to be priest? I ‘m supposed to believe what they say is the truth because they say so? No thanks.
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Brother Vinny
Active member
This is an argument from outrage, BTW. Failure at orthopraxy (right doing) does not necessarily indicate a failure at orthodoxy (right doctrine).
I'm not saying your outrage is unjustified. I'm saying it's irrelevant to the argument at hand. You need to fight on the battlefield of doctrine.
MarcATL
New member
Better queftion is Why do you think you have the authority to ignore it?
MarcATL
New member
Just about every post of yours in this thread is my proof of that.
MarcATL
New member
I'd like to Scripture that supports your BOGUS belief that The Apostate Church has final authority.
I'll be waiting.
OCTOBER23
New member
Cruciformer said,
In short, doctrinal authority rest with the Magisterium (body of bishops) of Christ's Church,
and not with the individual lay believer and his Bible
(note that for the first millennium-and-a-half of Christian history,
believers didn't even have Bibles!).
=====================================
HE IS TELLING YOU THAT THE CATHOLICKS ARE SUPERIOR
AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD WHO READS HIS BIBLE IS STUPID.
:madmad::madmad:
In short, doctrinal authority rest with the Magisterium (body of bishops) of Christ's Church,
and not with the individual lay believer and his Bible
(note that for the first millennium-and-a-half of Christian history,
believers didn't even have Bibles!).
=====================================
HE IS TELLING YOU THAT THE CATHOLICKS ARE SUPERIOR
AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD WHO READS HIS BIBLE IS STUPID.
:madmad:
:madmad:
Jesus gave us a church
His church gave us the bible
His church gave us the bible
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
HisServant
New member
hmm... no. Not a single author of any book in the New Testament was Roman Catholic.
who gave you your bible?
HisServant
New member
The Holy Spirit inspired the individual books... so God did.
HisServant
New member
Yup, and so are your doctrines, traditions and dogma.
HisServant
New member
What God writes on the hearts and minds of his children is not shareable... its an individual gift to his children.
You should know that!
so you don't have a man made bible?
WeberHome
New member
-
Some co-workers of mine who soldiered in Viet Nam during the decade of
the 70's, related to me how they were detailed to go out into the jungle and
tally the number of VC dead so that high command could evaluate the
effectiveness of heavy bombing runs. The enemy's bodies were often ripped
to pieces making the dead difficult to count; so what the guys did was
scrounge up enough body parts to assemble a John Doe; then they could
enter the man they assembled into the log as a dead soldier. That came to
be known as a kick-count.
What Rome has done is cobble up an alleged biblical prayer by piecing
together excerpts of Gabriel's and Elizabeth's dialogue; in effect, scrounging
up a kick-count prayer.
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the "Hail Mary" is not an in-the-Bible
prayer, but is a developed prayer; and it was developed over a number of
years.
Here's the entire text of the so-called Hail Mary. Words enclosed in brackets
are editorial rather than scriptural.
Hail [Mary] full of grace, the Lord is with thee,
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb [Jesus].
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
"Hail, the Lord is with thee" was plagiarized from Gabriel's greeting at Luke
1:28 (Douay-Rheims version).
"[Mary] full of grace" is fabricated.
"blessed art thou amongst women" was plagiarized from Elizabeth's greeting
at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).
"blessed is the fruit of thy womb" was also plagiarized from Elizabeth's
greeting at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).
"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our
death. Amen." is stated by the official Catechism of the Council of Trent to
have been fabricated by the Church itself.
Obviously then, portions of the Hail Mary, in its official form, are borrowed
from the Bible; but the body text of the prayer itself, is not actually in the
Bible; but rather, it's a man-made supplication concocted from plagiarized
excerpts of conversations between Christ's mom, Gabriel, and Elizabeth;
with an ending invocation composed entirely by Roman Catholic imagination.
It's abnormal to recite rote mantras like the Ave Maria because Christians
are commanded to approach heaven with candor.
†. Heb 4:16 . . Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we
may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
The Greek word for "boldly" is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'-ah) which means all
out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or confidence.
Mantras like the Ave Maria are not what I call forthright, nor blunt, nor out
spoken, nor confident. They're actually not much different than chanting.
NOTE: I cannot imagine anybody talking to their own mother by reciting rote
mantras so how nutsy is it attempting to communicate with Christ's mother
by reciting a rote mantra?
Anyway, as far as prayer to Christ's mother is concerned; it's not even an
option.
†. Jude 1:20 . . Continue to pray as you are directed by the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit directs the "you" to pray to their father; rather than to Jesus'
mom.
†. Rom 8:15-17 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to
fear; but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father.
†. Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.
He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==
Some co-workers of mine who soldiered in Viet Nam during the decade of
the 70's, related to me how they were detailed to go out into the jungle and
tally the number of VC dead so that high command could evaluate the
effectiveness of heavy bombing runs. The enemy's bodies were often ripped
to pieces making the dead difficult to count; so what the guys did was
scrounge up enough body parts to assemble a John Doe; then they could
enter the man they assembled into the log as a dead soldier. That came to
be known as a kick-count.
What Rome has done is cobble up an alleged biblical prayer by piecing
together excerpts of Gabriel's and Elizabeth's dialogue; in effect, scrounging
up a kick-count prayer.
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the "Hail Mary" is not an in-the-Bible
prayer, but is a developed prayer; and it was developed over a number of
years.
Here's the entire text of the so-called Hail Mary. Words enclosed in brackets
are editorial rather than scriptural.
Hail [Mary] full of grace, the Lord is with thee,
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb [Jesus].
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
"Hail, the Lord is with thee" was plagiarized from Gabriel's greeting at Luke
1:28 (Douay-Rheims version).
"[Mary] full of grace" is fabricated.
"blessed art thou amongst women" was plagiarized from Elizabeth's greeting
at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).
"blessed is the fruit of thy womb" was also plagiarized from Elizabeth's
greeting at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).
"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our
death. Amen." is stated by the official Catechism of the Council of Trent to
have been fabricated by the Church itself.
Obviously then, portions of the Hail Mary, in its official form, are borrowed
from the Bible; but the body text of the prayer itself, is not actually in the
Bible; but rather, it's a man-made supplication concocted from plagiarized
excerpts of conversations between Christ's mom, Gabriel, and Elizabeth;
with an ending invocation composed entirely by Roman Catholic imagination.
It's abnormal to recite rote mantras like the Ave Maria because Christians
are commanded to approach heaven with candor.
†. Heb 4:16 . . Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we
may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
The Greek word for "boldly" is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'-ah) which means all
out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or confidence.
Mantras like the Ave Maria are not what I call forthright, nor blunt, nor out
spoken, nor confident. They're actually not much different than chanting.
NOTE: I cannot imagine anybody talking to their own mother by reciting rote
mantras so how nutsy is it attempting to communicate with Christ's mother
by reciting a rote mantra?
Anyway, as far as prayer to Christ's mother is concerned; it's not even an
option.
†. Jude 1:20 . . Continue to pray as you are directed by the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit directs the "you" to pray to their father; rather than to Jesus'
mom.
†. Rom 8:15-17 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to
fear; but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father.
†. Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.
He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==
Cedarbay
New member
What version do you prefer?