sin/sins is not the issue today!

JudgeRightly

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Repentance is of sins.

No it's not.

Repentance just means "turning away from [something]."

It does not necessarily refer to sin. If it did, then God could be accused of sinning, as I showed you in the verse above.

I have given many scriptures to you proving that we are to repent of sins.

You've given lots of verses, none of which support, let alone prove, your position.

Humans have to repent of sins,

If repentance only refers to sins, then why add the clarifier phrase "of sins" on every time you use the word "repent"?

Because you know that repentance can be for other things as well, not just sin.


You said "repent" means "of sins."

But it doesn't mean just that.

It means of other things as well.

That's the point we're trying to make here, GT.

Read it again more carefully:

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

Isn't it interesting that Paul doesn't say anything about "sin" specifically, just "wickedness"?

If you say at ANY TIME that Jesus is your Lord, you must have every intention of stopping your sin, you must repent of those sins which mean be sorry for those sins.

No, not "sin." "Wickedness."

Don't try to change what the Bible says.

Luke 6:46 Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Did you notice that both of those verses are in the Gospels, and not in Paul's epistles?

And not only that, but Jesus said them during his ministry to the... Jews......

Hmmm.

I wonder why that is... :think:

Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the Law who will be declared righteous.

Did you notice that Paul is not talking about Christians OR Jews there?

He's talking about people who have never heard the gospel before.

So if you consider the scriptures carefully,

You clearly don't.

you will be able to see that if you say Jesus is your Lord, or say Jesus you are my Lord---you had better be doing what he says which means obey him.

I reject your line of reasoning, that if one considers the scriptures carefully, that they will come to your conclusion.

If you read and consider the scriptures carefully, you will not come to the conclusion you put forth above.

In fact, it's because you HAVEN'T carefully studied the scriptures that you have come to that conclusion.

Jesus says repent

To the Jews.

To the Gentiles and the whole world He says "believe."

Quite a different message.

and that is about sins.

False.

Obey Jesus’ commands, and in his commands there are no sins.

Whatever that means...

It is not something to be fought,

Because you say so?

just believe

Exactly.

and do what the scripture says, it is about confess and repenting of sins to be saved.

No, it's not.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." - 1 John 1:9

Notice how that was written by one of the Twelve Apostles to, yup, you guessed it, JEWS.

A dead work is sin.

Because you say so?

Read the scripture again it says the foundation (the way to get saved) is by repenting of sins and faith.

No it doesn't.
 

beloved57

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Sin/sins is NOT THE ISSUE today! All of the work necessary to save anyone today was accomplished by God through the faith and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ in the WORLD'S place; that includes ALL MEN (no matter who they are, where they've been or what they were doing while they were there)!

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

If you at this moment are an unbeliever, the only thing stopping you from being saved is your unbelief because even though the righteousness of God (the standard for heaven) is available UNTO YOU by the faith of Jesus Christ, it is not UPON YOU until that moment in your life when you trust the Lord believing Christ died for your sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Trust the Lord for salvation and the righteousness of God will be imputed to you (Romans 3:21-22 KJV, Romans 4:23-25 KJV).

Now, THAT ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^is the "nicest thing you can say to a homo"!

Sin/sins is the issue today if Christ did not die for your sins. There are some who shall die in their sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Now sin/sins are not an issue if we be a sheep Christ died for, and took away our sins, and then gives us faith to believe on Him for the same !
 

beloved57

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There are not different salvations in the New Testament.,

When a person is SAVED they have SALVATION, they are RECONCILED to God and won't die in their SINS and are given ETERNAL LIFE. if they continue to have faith and obedience.

You condition salvation on man then !
 

JudgeRightly

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They preached to have faith in Jesus who forgives sins.

No, they didn't.

Jesus preached that he forgives sins and to have faith in him.

No, He didn't.

Do you want the many scriptures again?

NONE of the scriptures you give even support your position, let alone prove it.

John the baptizer even proclaimed that Jesus is the LAMB OF GOD who takes away the sins of the world. Everyone knew what the lambs were for.

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Lambs never took away sin. You've been shown this before. Why do you keep repeating this falsehood?
 

JudgeRightly

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Humans have to repent of sins, not God.

Addressed above.

If you go by the KJV, then God stopped/turned from the evil that He was going to do.

Exodus 32:14
King James Bible
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.


And? "Evil" has more than one meaning, you know...

It doesn't always mean sin or wickedness.

That is about God stopping/repenting what He thought of doing.

Yes, that is my point. God repented.

Not of sin.

But of something other than sin.

Which means that "repent" is not by necessity talking about sinning.

That applies in ALL circumstances where the word "repent" is used, even in the New Testament.

So if Paul says we need to repent, why do you automatically assume it must be "of sin"?

2 Samuel 24:16 King James Bible
And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

Psalm 106:45 King James Bible
And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies.

Johah 3:10 King James Bible
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Again, humans have to repent of SINS, God does not.

Supra.

Without the shedding of blood, there was no forgiveness of sins.

Which has nothing to do with what I said.

The law was a teaching tool

It still is.

It's a tutor to bring people to Christ, so that they don't have to be under the law anymore.

But you have no idea what that means, do you?

it was a shadow of Jesus.

No, it wasn't and isn't.

God did not like it that the Jews would give a sin offering but not really be sorry for their sins. God said it made the righteous blood offerings as dirty bloody rags. It made God be weary of their sacrifices.

He said he would make a new covenant.

Taking things out of context and then mashing them together with other things you've taken out of context is certainly your forte, GT.

God says their sins/offenses had to be turned away from before He would save them.

From what?

Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Try reading the context, GT. It'll help you understand better.

He did say it.
Here it is again:

When you take what people say out of context, you can make them say anything you want.

Go read what Sozo and I said again.

Jesus says repent or perish.

In what way would they perish?

That is clear that one will perish and not have salvation if they don’t repent of sins.

Salvation from what?
 

JudgeRightly

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You condition salvation on man then !

“For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off.It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.“See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them,I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.” - Deuteronomy 30:11-20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy30:11-20&version=NKJV

It's amazing how easily your position is destroyed by a single passage in the Bible, B57.
 

JudgeRightly

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To repent is to be sorry for your sins and have every intention of stopping them.

No, GT, it isn't, no matter how many times you repeat your bogus definition, that isn't what it means "to repent".

"To repent" means to turn away from [something].

That's it. It's never meant anything other than that.
 

God's Truth

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No one said He was.
It is all same one and only faith.
It is a divided faith and Christ would be divided if he had different ways and times and rewards for different people based on ethnicity or gender, and teachings.
The Bible says same for all and not of whom one is blood related (ethnicity), and it says not of a husband (meaning not a man deciding over a woman).
John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

It doesn’t matter if anyone was or is a Jew or Gentile, same God and gospel over all.
Galatians 3:28, NIV: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." ... Galatians 3:28, KJV: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

There isn’t a different faith for Jews meaning a faith about one thing that others don’t get.
 

God's Truth

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No it's not.

Repentance just means "turning away from [something]."

It does not necessarily refer to sin. If it did, then God could be accused of sinning, as I showed you in the verse above.

For humans, it means turning away from something all right; we are to turn away from sin.
God could not be accused of sinning and nowhere anywhere is that a legitimate argument.

Humans have to turn away from sin it is what keeps us from God.

Isaiah 59:2 says, “your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God” (similarly, Eph 2:12 and 4:18)

Psalm 66:18 If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened;

Psalm 32:5 Then I confessed my sin; I no longer covered up my wrongdoing. I said, "I will confess my rebellious acts to the LORD." And then you forgave my sins.

Proverbs 28:13 Whoever conceals their sins does not prosper, but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy.

Psalm 38:18 I confess my iniquity; I am troubled by my sin.
 

God's Truth

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You've given lots of verses, none of which support, let alone prove, your position.
If repentance only refers to sins, then why add the clarifier phrase "of sins" on every time you use the word "repent"?
Because you know that repentance can be for other things as well, not just sin.
Humans have to repent of sins.


You said "repent" means "of sins."
I gave many scriptures that describe what we have to repent of, and it is of sins.

See this scripture it says repent of a sin, repent of wickedness:
Acts 8:22 Repent, therefore, of your wickedness,

We have to repent of wickedness, sin.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”


Isn't it interesting that Paul doesn't say anything about "sin" specifically, just "wickedness"?

No, not "sin." "Wickedness."

Don't try to change what the Bible says.

Wickedness is sin.
Here are more scriptures that say what that wicked sin entails:

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.


Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.


Those scriptures tells us of what people are to repent of doing---murder, magic arts, sexual immorality, thefts, etc.
 

God's Truth

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Did you notice that both of those verses are in the Gospels, and not in Paul's epistles?

And not only that, but Jesus said them during his ministry to the... Jews......

Hmmm.

I wonder why that is... :think:
God is not divided. Paul says not to say you are of Peter or of Paul, or of Jesus---not of Jesus as what you say when you say those Jews when Jesus walked the earth before he was crucified…

1 Corinthians 1:12 What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
 

God's Truth

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If repentance only refers to sins, then why add the clarifier phrase "of sins" on every time you use the word "repent"?

Because you know that repentance can be for other things as well, not just sin.

You said "repent" means "of sins."

But it doesn't mean just that.

It means of other things as well.

That's the point we're trying to make here, GT.

Isn't it interesting that Paul doesn't say anything about "sin" specifically, just "wickedness"?

I gave you scripture where Paul describes what sin is, which wickedness is.
2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.

All sin is wickedness.
Did you notice that Paul is not talking about Christians OR Jews there?

He's talking about people who have never heard the gospel before.
It makes no difference, for Paul taught Jews and Gentiles the one and only gospel.
To the Jews.

To the Gentiles and the whole world He says "believe."

Quite a different message.
All the scriptures that say to ‘believe’, they do not nullify the scriptures that say to obey.
We all have to believe that we have to obey the man who came, named Jesus.
Notice how that was written by one of the Twelve Apostles to, yup, you guessed it, JEWS.
Remember, we can’t say oh I am of one of the Twelve, or I am of Paul, or I am of whom Jesus spoke to when he walked the earth.
1 Corinthians 1:12 What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
 

God's Truth

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The Jesus I know came to seek and to save that which was lost Lk 19.

All who want to be saved are lost until they do what he says.

If

...if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; Matthew 6:14

...if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins; Matthew 6:15

...If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples;
John 8:31

...if you do them you will be blessed; John 13:17

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love; John 15:10

...if you do what I command you are my friends; John 15:14

...if we obey His commands---we may know that we know Him; 1 John 2:3
 

God's Truth

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You still condition salvation on what man does.

Jesus' words are Spirit and life and you get that Spirit and life if you obey his words.

It's typical man works salvation which is condemned in scripture.

No way is obeying Jesus condemnation in scripture.

How did you ever get yourself to believe that crazy thing?

We are no longer saved by the works of the law which are the purification works, like circumcision and shedding the blood of animals.
 
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