Show me the good news

[SaulToPaul 2]

The verse you quoted actually answers your question.

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The word works is "that which any one is occupied". Isn't that what Christ should find us doing when he returns?

We should be occupied doing the Lords work. I imagine you know what that is.

I am not following you. Can you explain further?

 

[chrysostom]

And that really is true. Protestants would like people to believe that since we are saved by grace, all you have to do is believe. I will never understand HOW a mental declaration of belief saves anyone. You can't separate grace, faith, and works. All three work together. Grace is what God did by sending His Son. Faith, better translated 'living faith' is our trust in God's Word and commandmentS. Works is THE EVIDENCE that something significant ocured in a believers life.!

amen
I see it as a test
even if we do believe
our belief will be tested

 

[disturbo]

I am not following you. Can you explain further?

Maybe you can follow this passage...

Mat 25:43-46
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Maybe you can follow this passage...

Mat 25:43-46
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Yes, I was referring to 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV)

What does believing that Christ died for my sins, and rose again for my justification, require of me to do?

 

[Right Divider]

I addressed 1 Peter 1 one verse at a time. I did not cherry pick verses. Your failure to acknowledge this only speaks of your own myopia.

I was particularly talking about the GIANT font that you felt the need to use to HIGHLIGHT one verse.

Indeed, Peter was specific in that he was addressing strangers.
A point your doctrine won't let you ceed. So tell me, what do you make of this verse?

As I clearly explained, the reference to strangers had to do the Israelites in FOREIGN lands and NOT that he was writing "to whom it may concern".

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

In your mind, who are the elect?

Once AGAIN, this is what Peter was referring to:

Isaiah 45:3-4
3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
​

 

[disturbo]

Yes, I was referring to 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV)

What does believing that Christ died for my sins, and rose again for my justification, require of me to do?

Come on bro, you can't be that ignorant.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Come on bro, you can't be that ignorant.

I do not see where believing that requires me to do something.
Show me?

 

[achduke]

I do not see where believing that requires me to do something.
Show me?

Love!

1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Repent!

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

 

[Right Divider]

Love!

1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Repent!

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

I guess folks like you think that MAD means sitting on our butts all day.

No, we believe that we should all serve the LORD.... just not to get saved, but because we are saved.

Ephesians 4:28-32 KJV
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.​

 

[fzappa13]

I was particularly talking about the GIANT font that you felt the need to use to HIGHLIGHT one verse.

That is because that was the one verse you apparently failed to see. The people that Peter was addressing were in times past not a people but now are. In times past Israel was a people. This means that this is not whom Peter was addressing. The people whom he was addressing were only then a people through their shared faith in the risen Christ.

As I clearly explained, the reference to strangers had to do the Israelites in FOREIGN lands and NOT that he was writing "to whom it may concern".

You state this but Peter does not. In fact the meaning of the word in the Greek is also "foreigner". The common meaning of this word does not agree with your assertion. Again we circle back to the fact that none save the House of Judah can point to their heritage with any certainty at this time. Your interpretation would have Peter talking to a people that were totally unaware he was talking to them.

Once AGAIN, this is what Peter was referring to:

Isaiah 45:3-4
3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. ​

​

You've had two different people point out to you the erroneous nature of arguing for a definition of the New Testament Elect using O.T. passages and you ignore the verse offered that makes this error plain. Why? There are plenty more that we could examine if you like.

 

[achduke]

I guess folks like you think that MAD means sitting on our butts all day.

No, we believe that we should all serve the LORD.... just not to get saved, but because we are saved.

Ephesians 4:28-32 KJV
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.​

I was answering STP. Never said MAD people do not do anything. I did have to be specific and only find passages that apply to MAD only.

 

[Right Divider]

That is because that was the one verse you apparently failed to see. The people that Peter was addressing were in times past not a people but now are. In times past Israel was a people. This means that this is not whom Peter was addressing. The people whom he was addressing were only then a people through their shared faith in the risen Christ.

The "people that were not a people but now are" is referring to the "little flock". They were the ones that Jesus gave the nation after He took it away from the unfaithful leadership.

See Matthew 21:43 and Luke 12:32.

They were the faithful ones of Israel while the "official" leadership was not. Peter did not become the apostle of the Gentiles. That was the responsibility that God gave to Paul

You state this but Peter does not. In fact the meaning of the word in the Greek is also "foreigner". The common meaning of this word does not agree with your assertion. Again we circle back to the fact that none save the House of Judah can point to their heritage with any certainty at this time. Your interpretation would have Peter talking to a people that were totally unaware he was talking to them.

So you think that a person from ISRAEL that is residing in ANOTHER country is not a STRANGER and a FOREIGNER in that country?

You're just too confused.

When Saul persecuted the house of God, they ran away to other countries. The twelve apostles for the twelve tribes stayed in Jerusalem. It's not hard to understand. See Acts 8:1.

You've had two different people point out to you the erroneous nature of arguing for a definition of the New Testament Elect using O.T. passages and you ignore the verse offered that makes this error plain. Why? There are plenty more that we could examine if you like.

It has the SAME meaning regardless of what you think about language and covenants. Peter consistently quoted from the OT about Israels role and parallels those in his epistles. The body of Christ is NOT a "royal priesthood" or a "holy nation".

He never stopped being one of the TWELVE apostles for the TWELVE tribes. Jesus said that Peter and the eleven will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel and Jesus does NOT lie.

 

[oatmeal]

So, you want to take a crack at the posts Heir ducked then?

I have not followed this thread closely, so if she ducked some, I would not know. However, I did reply to your post because it seemed your teachers had not as a complete education as they could have.

I may be interested in those verses you say she ducked.

Let me know a couple ( not all) of the post numbers, I will look at them.

 

[disturbo]

Right divider said,

It has the SAME meaning regardless of what you think about language and covenants.

That proves your a fabricator. Nothing is further from the truth.

Strong's...Hebrew for elect...Old Testament...

972 bachiyr baw-kheer' from 977; select:--choose, chosen one, elect.

Strong's... Greek for elect...New Testament...

picked out, chosen
chosen by God,
to obtain salvation through Christ
Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
the Messiah is called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
___________________________________________________

Vines on the NT elect...

(c) believers (Jews or Gentiles), Mat 24:22, 24, 31; Mar 13:20, 22, 27; Luk 18:7; Rom 8:33; Col 3:12; 2Ti 2:10; Tts 1:1; 1Pe 1:1; 2:9 (as a spiritual race); Mat 20:16; 22:14; Rev 17:14, "chosen;" individual believers are so mentioned in Rom 16:13; 2Jo 1:1, 13.

God’s Word “eklektos” is used to refer to Jesus’ disciples, Jewish believers, Gentile believers, the angels of God, members of the Church and even for Christ Himself.

 

[Right Divider]

Right divider said,

That proves your a fabricator. Nothing is further from the truth.

Strong's...Hebrew for elect...Old Testament...

972 bachiyr baw-kheer' from 977; select:--choose, chosen one, elect.

Strong's... Greek for elect...New Testament...

picked out, chosen
chosen by God,
to obtain salvation through Christ
Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
the Messiah is called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
___________________________________________________

Vines on the NT elect...

(c) believers (Jews or Gentiles), Mat 24:22, 24, 31; Mar 13:20, 22, 27; Luk 18:7; Rom 8:33; Col 3:12; 2Ti 2:10; Tts 1:1; 1Pe 1:1; 2:9 (as a spiritual race); Mat 20:16; 22:14; Rev 17:14, "chosen;" individual believers are so mentioned in Rom 16:13; 2Jo 1:1, 13.

God’s Word “eklektos” is used to refer to Jesus’ disciples, Jewish believers, Gentile believers, the angels of God, members of the Church and even for Christ Himself.

You are a liar and a thief.

Peter is referring to ISRAEL as the elect.

Vines is confused, so it makes sense that you used it.

The "modern Christian world" has never taken God's promises to Israel seriously.They (and apparently you) always mythologize it, 'spiritualize' it, etc. etc. Anything but actually believing what it says.

 

[musterion]

God is, for now, blessing the world with undiluted grace. No works are required to become or to remain the Father's freely forgiven and justified child in the Son, forever. That, if anything, is the main foundation upon which MADs and a few other non-MAD believers stand.

Openly or subtly, most of you reject it.

So tell us: what's the better deal that you have that we do not? Be honest. What exactly do you possess, or hope to possess, that we are sure to lose by believing as we do?

 

[disturbo]

You are a liar and a thief.

Peter is referring to ISRAEL as the elect.

Vines is confused, so it makes sense that you used it.

The "modern Christian world" has never taken God's promises to Israel seriously.They (and apparently you) always mythologize it, 'spiritualize' it, etc. etc. Anything but actually believing what it says.

I know how difficult it is for you to cope being debunked and how difficult it is to admit your blunders and SEE the truth. But be of good cheer. Acquiring the truth is like growing up. It's an option.

That means that Vines, Thayer's, Strong's, Wuest, and Baker's Dictionary of Theology are all wrong, and the illustrious 'Right Divider' is correct.

What you need is a lesson in Hermeneutics 001.

 

[musterion]

The "modern Christian world" has never taken God's promises to Israel seriously.They (and apparently you) always mythologize it, 'spiritualize' it, etc. etc. Anything but actually believing what it says.

They actually do believe it--in reverse. It's a brilliant move Satan played. With Paul's body of doctrine being almost universally rejected even before he died, and with Israel blinded and set aside as no different from the Gentile nations, it was easy for Satan to appeal to religious flesh with the law works and earthly promises God gave to Israel...there was no one left to dispute it. Christendom is the result and it all belongs to the devil. Proof: If their "good news" involves an "if/then" to earn God's favor or to keep it (up to and including perseverance), it denies grace and is of Satan.

 

[Right Divider]

I know how difficult it is for you to cope being debunked and how difficult it is to admit your blunders and SEE the truth. But be of good cheer. Acquiring the truth is like growing up. It's an option.

That means that Vines, Thayer's, Strong's, Wuest, and Baker's Dictionary of Theology are all wrong, and the illustrious 'Right Divider' is correct.

What you need is a lesson in Hermeneutics 001.

Not at all, but Peter is speaking to his kinsmen and he means "Israel, mine elect".

 

[disturbo]

Not at all, but Peter is speaking to his kinsmen and he means "Israel, mine elect".

You just don't care about truth. You care about adhering to your beliefs no matter how foolish it makes you look.

I should have told you that besides the references I quoted that refute your beliefs about God's elect. The bible refutes you hands down!
The word 'elect' is used 23 times in the NT. Here are 17 of them. In every verse the word elect indicates CHRISTIANS! The other 6 either mention angels, individual people/Christians, or Christ.

You have a lot of explaining to do.

Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

John 13:18, I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled,

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Acts 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

Acts 15:25 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

Romans 8:33 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

Romans 16:13 Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.

1 Corinthians 1:27-28 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

How is it that the word 'elect' indicates Christians in every one of these verses yet you can't see it.