Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

[godrulz]

Originally posted by elected4ever

Should we pay tithes to be bless and free? c. moore, what makes you think that a child of God is not blessed and free? What makes you think that we need to pay tithes in order to be blessed and free? What blessings and what freedoms should we expect to gain by titheing that is not ours at present?

Ephesians 1:3 "...who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with EVERY spiritual blessing IN CHRIST."

We do not give to get (wrong motive), but give as an expression of love, worship, obedience, stewardship to meet practical needs, (love relationship) etc. (principles support this...sozo, the Bible is not a systematic book of proof texts).

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by godrulz

(principles support this...sozo, the Bible is not a systematic book of proof texts).

"See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ."

 

[elected4ever]

godrulz, did you read post #7

 

[Crow]

c.moore

My best advice is do what the Spirit leads you to do, and take into account your responsibilities as a Christian man. I do not believe that you can "buy" prosperity or blessings from God by giving, as some evangelists suggest. That is an evil "teaching" which has no place in the Body of Christ.

You have a responsibility to take care of your family. In 1 Timothy, we read:

8 If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

This is worded very strongly. God has delegated the suport of your wife and children to you. Spending money to provide for their necessities is not stealing from God, even if it takes your last cent.

You also have a responsibility to your church, but I do not believe that it is tithing.

You alone among people know how much income it takes to feed and house your family, how likely or unlikely you are to have health problems that would decrease or end your earnings, and a host of other situations that would impact your finances. I would say look at the whole financial picture, with an eye to the responsibility that God has given you to provide for your family and the needs of your church.

Here's a link to a site that has a good essay on economics from a Biblical standpoint. I hope this is of help.

 

[elected4ever]

godrulz, I seem to detect a legalest wrapped in sheep clothing. I ask you, what blessing are we to expect if we tithe and what blessing are we to be denyed if we do not tithe? I have known rich people that did not tithe and pore people that did and guess what the rich remained rich and the poor remained poor. Is God therefore unjust? Are the poor in some manner cursed by God?

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by elected4ever

godrulz, I seem to detect a legalest wrapped in sheep clothing. I ask you, what blessing are we to expect if we tithe and what blessing are we to be denyed if we do not tithe? I have known rich people that did not tithe and pore people that did and guess what the rich remained rich and the poor remained poor. Is God therefore unjust? Are the poor in some manner cursed by God?

Tithing is not a formula/technique that produces blessings or curses. It is not legalistic to worship, love and obey God in relationship. Is going to church legalism? Is giving legalism? Is praying legalism. They may or may not be depending on motive.

Phil. 4:10 ff is in a context of finances. Paul learned to be content in any circumstance, rich or poor. Why? "I can do everything through him who gives me strength." This does not mean he can leap tall buildings like superman. In context, it means he relies on God whether rich or poor. He meets our needs, not our greeds. Paul is thanking the Philippians for their generous support. The Bible probably talks more about money and stewardship than heaven and hell. There are everlasting priniciples in Scripture than should not be dismissed as legalism. Find the principles and stop looking for ways to be cheap with the things of the Kingdom. I have tithed for over 20 years and still struggle with debt, etc. I do not regret this expression of love and worship and helping advance the gospel despite not getting 100 fold in this life (this is a misinterpretation of the principle...we do not give to get $).

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by godrulz

I have tithed for over 20 years and still struggle with debt, etc.

I did not assume that you give to get from God, but there is no biblical support for tithing under the New Covenant.

Everyone, who attends a church, should give to support the church and it's ministries, the same as I would give to my neighbor who has need.

 

[elected4ever]

Tithing may very will be right for you. I do not object to tithing. What I do object to is bringing a person under a charge of poor stewardship if he does not. That is legalism. Such arguments have been used by the church for years to extort money from there members. I frankly would like to be like JC Penney and be able to give 90% and keep the 10% but for me to do so would be poor stewardship. In many cases for an individual to tithe would be poor stewardship. These people that cannot should not be placed under the burden of false guilt because of the greed of the church.

 

[c.moore]

Should also the tithes go only to my currect church or can I give it in other Godly work like missinary works or to the homeless, and etc?

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by c.moore

Should also the tithes go only to my currect church or can I give it in other Godly work like missinary works or to the homeless, and etc?

I would say that this may be the perfect timing for the first smilie survivor...

:hammer:

 

[elected4ever]

What difference does it make? Do You keep tabs on all your charitable giving? You don't give after 10% when you have the ability to help someone in need? You use your so called tithe for tax purposes and you don't give if it is not reimbursed by the government? Why should such a thing concern you?

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by elected4ever

Tithing may very will be right for you. I do not object to tithing. What I do object to is bringing a person under a charge of poor stewardship if he does not. That is legalism. Such arguments have been used by the church for years to extort money from there members. I frankly would like to be like JC Penney and be able to give 90% and keep the 10% but for me to do so would be poor stewardship. In many cases for an individual to tithe would be poor stewardship. These people that cannot should not be placed under the burden of false guilt because of the greed of the church.

Our motive should be to give as unto God. The church will be accountable for how they steward the funds. I do not perceive that Bible-based churches are greedy. They are often generous with other ministries as well as attending to their own needs.


1+1+1=3 in reality (this represents Mormon tritheism).

Do you mean 1x1x1=1 as a limited analogy of the Trinity?

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by c.moore

Should also the tithes go only to my currect church or can I give it in other Godly work like missinary works or to the homeless, and etc?

The Malachi 'storehouse' principle could be used as a guideline. Support your local church first, since this is where you are fed. TV ministries that encourage the tithe to be given to them are undermining the local church, God's main instrument for growing His family and army.

 

[Sozo]

Don't sugarcoat it, godrulz! Either tithing is a command of God that requires strict obedience or there is punishment.

or

It is not a command, and God works in the hearts of each individual to give as he sees need.

 

[elected4ever]

godrulz

Do you mean 1x1x1=1 as a limited analogy of the Trinity?

One God the Father plus One God the Son plus One God the Holy Spirit equals one God. There is no devision of the three and all exist in perfect harmony with each other. This is foreign to human thinking and defies Human logic. Nothing like this exist on earth that can demonstrate this principle. Our futile attempts to explain this logical has raised more questions than they have answered. I just discern the truth and accept it. I will know when I get home as we all will and our questions will all be answered.

 

[godrulz]

God is a compound unity. 3 in 1 and 1 in 3. I just think 1x1x1=1 is a better illustration since it shows how 3 things can be 1.

 

[elected4ever]

We are strangers in a foreign land. While we are here we see great need and the Father has given each of us the ability to minister in some way. It is normal for a citizen of a foreign country to use that which he has to improve the lives of those around him and to demonstrate the goodness of his homeland.

 

[c.moore]

But is Malachi for us Christians today or was the giving only to the Israelites?

Was the tithes for only the priest to give??

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by c.moore

But is Malachi for us Christians today or was the giving only to the Israelites?

Was the tithes for only the priest to give??

We must interpret Malachi in context for the correct understanding. What did it mean to the original hearers? Check a commentary like Keil-Delitzsch.

If we apply it to the church, it would be by way of application and principle only. What does it mean to us (is there an application for all believers?) This is reasonable, but not the primary interpretation/application.

If the law required 10% +, then why is everyone trying to give less under grace? It seems to me we would at least give what the law required since we have the abundance and grace of Christ in our lives i.e. perhaps we should exceed what the law required. I think there is a reflection on the heart if everyone is trying to give the bare minimum to God. It is not the amount as much as the motive and heart that God values.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by godrulz

We must interpret Malachi in context for the correct understanding. What did it mean to the original hearers? Check a commentary like Keil-Delitzsch.

If we apply it to the church, it would be by way of application and principle only. What does it mean to us (is there an application for all believers?) This is reasonable, but not the primary interpretation/application.

If the law required 10% +, then why is everyone trying to give less under grace? It seems to me we would at least give what the law required since we have the abundance and grace of Christ in our lives i.e. perhaps we should exceed what the law required. I think there is a reflection on the heart if everyone is trying to give the bare minimum to God. It is not the amount as much as the motive and heart that God values.

Do you just make things up as you go?

:nono: