Shooting at SC Church During Bible Study - Suspect still at large

[rainee]

Spoiler

http://www.thenation.com/article/what-was-the-confederate-flag-doing-in-cuba-vietnam-and-iraq/

And what do you think this soldier is thinking?
About race? :nono:

I think it is some kind of mix of bravery and fear? And a pride in his heritage?

 

[Town Heretic]

Your argument is that the regulations you have are established and enforced.

No my approach is to consider a legal matter within a legal context. When I'm talking about morality I approach it from a different context. So there are things that are legal and can be or are immoral and things that are illegal that may still be morally defensible.

To engage in rational debate, you have to show that your compact is necessarily an absolute standard of truth and justice.

Law is necessary for the functioning of any compact. But it doesn't have to make any claim about an absolute truth. The law is concerned with right and balance, with penalty and reward/incentive on some occasions. It isn't an arbiter of moral truth.

So you can't provide justice.

No one can in this life, as per my example.

How about you step aside and let someone who is willing to do so. :up:

How about you resize that hat. It's cutting off your blood flow.

That's because you hate the thought of justice.

That's a pointless, wrong headed and childish response. But given what preceded it, I can't say it surprises me. I've answered you already on most of what follows so I'm disinterested in repeating it.

And won't isn't can't on calling someone a murderer. Due process will determine his competence and guilt.

 

[Town Heretic]

Hey rainee, next time how about putting large photos in spoiler tags.

I think it is some kind of mix of bravery and fear? And a pride in his heritage?

Who knows. A lot of people, myself included, have held differing opinions on that flag. He looks like a kid. That war was fought by them, for the most part. I'd hope that he grew up to realize that whatever romanticism he imbued that symbol with, it was unworthy of and that whatever affection he felt for the South that gave it to history should be transferred to a better illustration.

 

[Granite]

http://flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm

http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_54.php

http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_05.php

:rotfl:

Right. Because I've developed such a non-confrontational reputation here over the years.:rotfl:

 

[Tambora]

:rotfl:

Right. Because I've developed such a non-confrontational reputation here over the years.:rotfl:

You're a teddy bear!

 

[fzappa13]

You're a teddy bear!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnFJHSvLcwQ

 

[Stripe]

No my approach is to consider a legal matter within a legal context. When I'm talking about morality I approach it from a different context. So there are things that are legal and can be or are immoral and things that are illegal that may still be morally defensible.

Which is tacit admission that when I speak of justice, you are disqualified from relevant input — unless you want to drop the legalese.

 

[TomO]

I see... Hmm. I have to ask, Tomo, did the British Colonies have a legitimate claim to own all lands once belonging to GB once those colonies declared themselves independent? I think in Florida a Spanish Fort remains, is it Spain's or Florida's?

Is it your assertion that because Spain and GB abandoned their lands/installations in our section of North America (Due largely because keeping them in the midst of our little bees-nest was much too expensive to maintain.) that the Union should have done the same?...Because that is the only way I can see the three situations as being even remotely comparable. :AMR:

You know Tomo I do not want to offend you.

Not really possible...But I do enjoy civility. :e4e:

Sure you did, Tomo. Thank you.

Any time.

But once those other guys praised you.. Well... :heartburn:

Perhaps you shouldn't be so easy to let others influence your opinions. lain:

 

[Tambora]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnFJHSvLcwQ

They can sure creep up a song.

 

[rainee]

Hi Tomo,
Hope this finds you fine and doing well....

Is it your assertion that because Spain and GB abandoned their lands/installations in our section of North America (Due largely because keeping them in the midst of our little bees-nest was much too expensive to maintain.)

Yes sir. That and the fact we would have been killing them dead. Those two kind of go together...

that the Union should have done the same?...Because that is the only way I can see the three situations as being even remotely comparable. :AMR:

Yes sir. Though I remind one and all SC did Not kill them dead but booted them out.

I don't know much about you Tomo but as a sister I can say getting people out of your room as a child must pretty much be like this. Once it is your place, it is your place. And when you turn purple from screaming get out and telling on them and it does no good but provide comic relief then you must resort to violence. And at that point if they are smart they run. lain:

Not really possible...But I do enjoy civility. :e4e:

I am glad not to offend you and I'm glad you posted!
However...

Perhaps you shouldn't be so easy to let others influence your opinions. lain:

The guys on this thread have not influenced my opinion in the least, sir.
I have always always always thought they were hardheaded.
What surprised me was how deep it went. In fact Tomo could anyone ever influence your opinion once you settled in it like your very own castle? I'm just asking because this thread has been very revealing to me.
For example you think Fort Sumter should have held Union Soldiers on a seceded sovereign state's land.

And Town was unimpressed that SC was unfairly blamed fort starting the war by booting them out - without shooting a one of them and that was at least a couple months AFTER they seceded.

And Granite, well, he thinks that waving the flag at the President was because they were racists even though they WROTE on the flags "NOT COMING DOWN" as if something mattered more to them than what color the President was.

And these are just the surface of unchangeable opinions I have observed here...

But I see you at least want me unchanging too. So I shall be, God willing. Have a good one Tomo.

 

[Granite]

Yes, they were racists. Saying otherwise is idiotic.

 

[rexlunae]

The guys on this thread have not influenced my opinion in the least, sir.
I have always always always thought they were hardheaded.
What surprised me was how deep it went. In fact Tomo could anyone ever influence your opinion once you settled in it like your very own castle? I'm just asking because this thread has been very revealing to me.
For example you think Fort Sumter should have held Union Soldiers on a seceded sovereign state's land.

And Town was unimpressed that SC was unfairly blamed fort starting the war by booting them out - without shooting a one of them and that was at least a couple months AFTER they seceded.

And Granite, well, he thinks that waving the flag at the President was because they were racists even though they WROTE on the flags "NOT COMING DOWN" as if something mattered more to them than what color the President was.

And these are just the surface of unchangeable opinions I have observed here...

But I see you at least want me unchanging too. So I shall be, God willing. Have a good one Tomo.

It's the same foolish, stubborn thick-headed victimology that birthed the Confederacy in the first place, immune to facts, indifferent to the legacy of real harm inflicted, self pitying as it is unjustifiably prideful. It really is your heritage, and you hold it just as your ancestors must have.

 

[rainee]

It's the same foolish, stubborn thick-headed victimology that birthed the Confederacy in the first place, immune to facts, indifferent to the legacy of real harm inflicted, self pitying as it is unjustifiably prideful. It really is your heritage, and you hold it just as your ancestors must have.

Hi Rex!
I have wondered about you and hoped I had not offended you as well. I am glad to read you and you helped me see I needed to apologize to Town back awhile ago. Something was bothering my conscience but I didn't know what -- and didn't want to know! But suddenly after reading your post I realized I may not have been fair... Not with you and not with him.

So If you are okay with me then I will look at what you write - but I and the subject are two diiferent things, yes, Rex?

 

[rainee]

Yes, they were racists. Saying otherwise is idiotic.

Granite, here is the deal - if you tell someone they are something when they are not then you are forcing them to think you are wrong and a Butthead.
Once they think that will they care about your opinion?

What they can do then, if they are not careful, is show what it would be like if they wanted to act racist or whatever.

Then you will have tried to divide and cause trouble and you will have made it worse...
Just like some have already done in government positions. They have made it worse, IMO!

 

[rainee]

Keep throwing those pearls at the sty, TH, and there'll be enough spares rolling around for someone to make a mean necklace.

Really beautiful in a horrible way, btw

 

[Granite]

Granite, here is the deal - if you tell someone they are something when they are not then you are forcing them to think you are wrong and a Butthead.

From a Christian to an atheist that is incredibly rich.:rotfl:

How many times have we been told we "really," "actually," "secretly" believe in God?

How many times have we been told we never "really" believed in the first place?

This argument of yours might hold some weight if it wasn't so outrageously, brazenly hypocritical.

Once they think that will they care about your opinion?

Uh, yeah. Exactly.

As for the racists waving the rebel flag: Their actions speak for themselves.

 

[rainee]

From a Christian to an atheist that is incredibly rich.:rotfl:

Oh Granite!
You know what buddy? That is good point. I felt the sting. I can't deny we may not be perfect...ok we definitely aren't.
But...

How many times have we been told we "really," "actually," "secretly" believe in God?

How many times have we been told we never "really" believed in the first place?

Shouldn't there be an "or" between those two above?

Which one were you told Granite? Not both of them, surely, Granite?
Or were you? Which one was true, may I ask?

This argument of yours might hold some weight if it wasn't so outrageously, brazenly hypocritical.

Perhaps, I feel a weight to it. I would have to pray about it, actually.
Because I really can be woefully wrong. Prayer is something you might want to try, yes?

As for the racists waving the rebel flag: Their actions speak for themselves.

Granite, I actually have seen a hateful act, and you know what? There was no flag waving involved.
Btw a flag doesn't make someone anything - it represents something to the person. So unless those flag wavers have a flag fetish and this is part of how they get off on the flag, then their waving doesn't tell what it represents to them.
Should any of them act like a male dog on a human leg with it then be sure you are right, the actions are speaking alright...

 

[Town Heretic]

...And Town was unimpressed that SC was unfairly blamed fort starting the war by booting them out - without shooting a one of them and that was at least a couple months AFTER they seceded.

I don't think I actually made a comment about it one way or the other.

By the way, did you catch that state's rights Klan group waving that flag at the S. Car. capital the other day?

They must be confused. You should go up or down there (depending on where you live) and set them straight on the honorable whatever that is the glorious rebel flag. That should clear them out and end what must be an embarrassing association for you and others who agree with you.

 

[fzappa13]

I think that denying the legitimate concerns of others and minimalizing and marginalizing those who hold those concerns went a long way towards starting America's first "civil" war and it saddens me to see that same spirit alive and well in this thread. This same pot is being stirred again and it finds willing guests to sup from it who should be smart enough to know better.

This is what happens when you make caricatures of the culture and history of others.

 

[rexlunae]

I don't think I actually made a comment about it one way or the other.

By the way, did you catch that state's rights Klan group waving that flag at the S. Car. capital the other day?

They must be confused. You should go up or down there (depending on where you live) and set them straight on the honorable whatever that is the glorious rebel flag. That should clear them out and end what must be an embarrassing association for you and others who agree with you.

It is fascinating how the Heritage-not-Haters seem to show up reliably when people talk about taking down the flag, but when it is used for more explicitly racist and violent purposes, they're never there to object.