Shooting at First Baptist Church in Texas

[Gary K]

The NRA's version of Creation!

All I can say to that is: Wow. What a refutation. What reliance on facts and logic.

Sorry, but I just couldn't hold back the sarcasm after a response like that. It seems the only reply you were capable of was an adhominen response.

 

[Nihilo]

The NRA's version of Creation!

You bet your censored that when the Nazis invented the assault rifle (German sturmgewehr; storm-rifle), it was a big day in history! Yes sir. Or ma'am, as the case may be.

 

[Gary K]

How reactive. How is it you see others as diametrically opposed to you if they question what you say? Do you have a big need to brand and pigeon-hole others? I identified myself already as a gun owner,a 22 rifle. I have had a number of other guns as well. 32m handgun was the largest, but I have fired a variety of guns at shooting ranges. Nothing wrong there.

Do you think felons should have guns? They can't vote. Do you think we should not have background checks?

Do you think criminally insane should have a gun?

Do you think a man who spent a year in military jail for beating his wife and her child should own a gun?

How does limiting gun ownership to responsible citizens destroying the Constitution? I am not reading in the 2nd amendment every lunatic and criminal has the right to own a gun.

I'll just respond to what I see as the main idea behind your post.

The political left will never be satisfied with what you ask for. Maybe you would, but the forces behind the so-called gun control movement? Not a chance. If you really think the left is against violence, poverty, crime, etc... take a look at the cities the left has been in political control of for the last 5 or 6 decades. Those areas are full of violence, poverty, crime, and they are vast seas of hopelessness. If the ideas the left espouses as cures for all these things actually worked, then we would see model cities with little poverty, crime, violence, and a population that is filled with hope. We don't see any of that in those areas. Instead we see the breakdown of the black family structure which leads directly to everything I listed above. Before the so-called "war on poverty" started the percentage of black children born in 2 parent households was far in excess of what it is today. In 1910 more than 2/3 of blacks lived in integrated neighborhoods. From 1890 to 1950 black partiicipation in the labor force was higher, percentage wise, than the white participation rates.

Where are all of those statistics now? They have sunk through the floor. They are horrendous.

What follows is a good link to what has actually happened.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/03/the_decline_of_the_africanamerican_family.html

So, results are what tells the true story of what the left actually wants to accomplish for it is the sure result of everything they promote as good ideas. What they push as "reasonable" gun control will not do what they claim. And their goal is the disarming of the US citizenry for a disarmed citizenry is helpless before a government that is running amok. That is the very reason the 2nd amendment exists. The founding fathers knew there would come a time when the people would have to take back their liberty from those who wanted to control them, rather than serve them as a government is supposed to do.

 

[Nihilo]

Hi Nihilo,

Your not wrong to use the word terror, and if it makes you feel in anyway better go ahead.

I tend to draw the distinction that terrorism is done in pursuit of a cause, however mad or insane the cause is.

It doesn't seem this chap had a cause or motive beyond hate and personal vendetta.

I fully understand you wanting to draw maximum attention to heinous nature of his crimes, but I do find the distinction real.

All the best.

http://us.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/what-is-terrorism-definition-trnd/index.html

Bottom line, there's no good reason not to call this Terrorism. Lo:

even though [another terrorist attack] met some of the criteria, federal authorities never used the terrorism label. Avoiding the label made it easier for them to pursue the death penalty.

The reason we're not using the WORD TERRORISM is dumb!

 

[jgarden]

This is the kind of convoluted logic that Trump, the NRA, Republican politicians and their "motley crew" of conservative supporters employ to justify the unjustifiable!

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

There's no metaphor about this. People are not metaphorically dying, they are really dying, just like in non-metaphorical war. The trick here is how to do we wage this war without stripping innocent people of their freedoms. Because that's just knuckling under to the terrorists.

God never created guns. How can we be free to carry something designed to kill people, whom God did create.

John 10:10
The thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

Guns are the devils work.

 

[Tambora]

The neighbor that opened fire on the shooter and made him run away used an AR-15.

 

[Nihilo]

God never created guns. How can we be free to carry something designed to kill people, whom God did create.

John 10:10
The thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

Guns are the devils work.

:AMR:

 

[Nihilo]

This is the kind of convoluted logic that Trump, the NRA, Republican politicians and their "motley crew" of conservative supporters employ to justify the unjustifiable!

Except that you're absolutely wrong, you're absolutely right.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Terrorists. Who cares if they're crazy or sane? Besides the point, most leftists lump terrorists together with "individuals who go crazy" anyway, there's no distinction, so why are we calling them "individuals who go crazy" instead of terrorists?

This is the result of this latest terrorist attack upon America, from C-N-N: "Pastor's wife: 'Most of our church family is gone'"

Was this not anti-Christian terrorism, when "most" of a Christian church is "gone?"

Again, how can we have a war on individual people who will one day go crazy and kill? Unless you mean war as a metaphor.

I mean you can't ask the army to kill these people because we don't know who they are till its too late.

However we could take measures to prevent them from killing by say; removing guns from the situation.

Guns on there own are no problem.

People getting angry might result in a fight with their hands which usually results in basic injuries.

Guns and people getting angry usually results in death.

 

[Tambora]

Steve Crowder interviews the man that shot at and chased the killer.

 

[Nihilo]

Again, how can we have a war on individual people who will one day go crazy and kill? Unless you mean war as a metaphor.

It must look different from how you're picturing it.

I mean you can't ask the army to kill these people because we don't know who they are till its too late.

Right. We have to figure out how to do it differently.

However we could take measures to prevent them from killing by say; removing guns from the situation.

You could, say, strip innocent people from their freedom, that is guaranteed by the Second Amendment, sure. Go right ahead and amend the Constitution by either amending the Second Amendment, or by repealing it. But don't pretend that you're not talking about infringing the RKBA, because that is what you're doing.

Guns on there own are no problem.

People getting angry might result in a fight with their hands which usually results in basic injuries.

Guns and people getting angry usually results in death.

So people never got angry, before the first mass shootings in America happened?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

It must look different from how you're picturing it.

Yes

We have to figure out how to do it differently.

Yes

You could, say, strip innocent people from their freedom, that is guaranteed by the Second Amendment, sure. Go right ahead and amend the Constitution by either amending the Second Amendment, or by repealing it.

Yes but you are under the misconception that freedom;

freedom
noun
1. the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants.
2. the state of not being imprisoned or enslaved.

Includes the right to act with a gun. An object design to kill people.

I mean a nuclear weapon is an 'arm' so is VX nerve agent, but we're not allowed to own them are we, yet no one complains about us not being allowed to have those because this is to do with perception and your perception is warped by a man made document from 400 years ago drafted mainly by Masons. Instead you should let the Bible warp you mind a lot more.

But don't pretend that you're not talking about infringing the RKBA, because that is what you're doing.

I'm not pretending, it's you seeing things from a warped perception

So people never got angry, before the first mass shootings in America happened?

This statement shows just how warped your thinking is.

 

[musterion]

evil, barbaric, senseless, slaughter, meaningless, vicious, repugnant ... do I need to add more?

Yes, that's your own government.

The report said lessons must be learned after one of the girls was wrongly taken to court for alleged racial abuse against her abuser, while her abuser was not investigated until years later.SSCB chairman Sally Halls said there were "points at which opportunities were missed to uncover the real nature of what was happening" and "valuable lessons" to be learned.

Girl is groomed, raped and impregnated by your Mohammedan invaders, and SHE went to court first just for saying something bad about a Muslim. We have our problems but Britain is beyond wicked and quite, quite insane.


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-somerset-41844276

 

[musterion]

How many more corpses need to pile up on our streets before you guys decide to stop importing more of it?

Mark Steyn, after London Bridge

 

[This Charming Manc]

Not at all relevant to this conversation......

Your really do have a obsession and a problem...

We are talking about guns and mass shootings in a church, and if there a better way of dealing with it than the current system.

 

[Jonahdog]

Not at all relevant to this conversation......

Your really do have a obsession and a problem...

We are talking about guns and mass shootings in a church, and if there a better way of dealing with it than the current system.

But you need to understand how difficult it is to a Congressman or Senator to NOT take the NRA $.
The NRA, the lobbying group to allow gun manufacturers to make more $. Hiding behind the 2nd Amendment. Follow the money. The 2nd Amendment, "Oh my God, the government wants to take your guns away" is a very effective smokescreen and cover. Puts a Constitutional spin on a simple economic issue.

 

[Nihilo]

you are under the misconception that freedom
. . .Includes the right to act with a gun. An object design to kill people.

I am under the correct conception that the RKBA is the human/civil right to own and to carry, peaceably and lawfully, standard issue military weapons.

I mean a nuclear weapon is an 'arm' so is VX nerve agent

The RKBA is about standard issue service rifles and carbines, and sidearms, that all the world's armed forces use every day of every year.

What gives anybody the right to possess nuclear weapons?

Why are nerve agents illegal for even all the world's armed forces?

, but we're not allowed to own them are we

Plenty of people possess nuclear weapons.

, yet no one complains about us not being allowed to have those

There are lots of people who want to ban nuclear weapons.

because this is to do with perception and your perception is warped by a man made document from 400 years ago drafted mainly by Masons.

The human/civil RKBA stems from the right to life, which is why we have the right to defend ourselves. You instead deny all these rights. I disagree with you.

Instead you should let the Bible warp you mind a lot more.

I'm more warped by the Bible than you are.

I'm not pretending, it's you seeing things from a warped perception

Rather, it's warped to believe that we don't have the RKBA, the right to self-defense, and the right to life.

This statement shows just how warped your thinking is.

So no answer then.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I am under the correct conception that the RKBA is the human/civil right to own and to carry, peaceably and lawfully, standard issue military weapons.
The RKBA is about standard issue service rifles and carbines, and sidearms, that all the world's armed forces use every day of every year.

What gives anybody the right to possess nuclear weapons?

Why are nerve agents illegal for even all the world's armed forces?
Plenty of people possess nuclear weapons.
There are lots of people who want to ban nuclear weapons.
The human/civil RKBA stems from the right to life, which is why we have the right to defend ourselves. You instead deny all these rights. I disagree with you.
I'm more warped by the Bible than you are.
Rather, it's warped to believe that we don't have the RKBA, the right to self-defense, and the right to life.
So no answer then.

The second amendment was because of the threat posed by the British and then to a much much lesser degree the native Americans (although I personally would argue that point) but after this the 2nd amendment should have been amended again to only include the army and state sheriff's etc, not everyone. However, from then things have gotten increasingly worse all because the government didn't act sooner. Now you have a situation where 85+ people a day are murdered by guns in the US, compared to >0.01 person a day in the UK, all because of the US governments poor decision making skills and the lack of educational standards.

 

[Nihilo]

The second amendment was because of the threat posed by the British and then to a much much lesser degree the native Americans

The Second Amendment recognizes a human/civil right to own/keep/possess and to bear/carry peaceably and lawfully standard issue military small arms, and stipulates that this human/civil right "shall not be infringed," so really, nothing you say here is true. You're way off. Warped, some might say.

I personally would argue that point) but after this the 2nd amendment should have been amended again to only include the army and state sheriff's etc, not everyone.

Everybody's got opinions.

However, from then things have gotten increasingly worse all because the government didn't act sooner.

Terrorists didn't really start taking advantage of our freedoms until Prohibition.

Now you have a situation where 85+ people a day are murdered by guns in the US, compared to >0.01 person a day in the UK, all because of the US governments poor decision making skills and the lack of educational standards.

No, because of murderers.