Shooting at First Baptist Church in Texas

[Tambora]

The trick here is how to do we wage this war without stripping innocent people of their freedoms. Because that's just knuckling under to the terrorists.

Yeppers.

 

[musterion]

Make examples of Antifa for sedition.

 

[Gary K]

If this had been perpetrated by an Islamic "terrorist," the President, Republican Congress and their supporters would all be demanding immediate action!

When it brings into question the wisdom of allowing the proliferation of semi-automatic weapons that can provide just one misguided American with the opportunity to kill/wound 100's of innocent men, women and children, however, all we receive are excuses to justify the "status quo!"

I guess your sarcasm detector failed.

The point is, it is people who shoot other people. A gun can no more shoot another person than it can get up and walk around on it's own, or think, or have motives, or be filled with hatred and a desire to kill.

So, yes, limiting the people who desire to kill Americans, such as Islamic terrorists, reduces the chances of them coming over here and killing us. In other words, it limits the number of people here who have some sick motivation to kill other people. Notice, when they can't get a gun they use knives, vehicles, explosives, etc....

The government's job isn't to take away what the constitution guarantees. It's main purpose is to protect our liberty, our freedoms, our Constitutionally guaranteed rights. That was why the US was formed, why the Constitution was written. It is the job of the government to keep enemies of the citizens of the US from harming then. So, the conservatives are correct in saying, stop ISIS. Stop the open borders. And the liberals are wrong in saying, take away liberty. Trade it for safety. As the very wise Ben Franklin said, and I paraphrase, anyone who wants to trade liberty for safety deserves, and will get, neither.

 

[Gary K]

So if we kill all the people, problem solved. Grenades don't kill people. The MOAB don't kill people. Nukes don't kill people. We need to put those in people's hands so we can solve the real problem - humans as noted above.

There must be some line where it no longer makes sense but maybe that is too logical and not fear based enough.

If there is no line then we will simply destroy ourselves thinking we are protecting ourselves. As the 60s saying goes - MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction.

- a gun owner-simple 22 rifle. Don't need an AK or a bump stock.

Deus autem nobiscum

So, your argument is, as I see it, that we need to destroy the Constitution to protect ourselves. We need to place ourselves within the confines of a totally benevolent dictatorship to be safe, as if such a thing as a completely benevolent dictatorship exists. Ask the Venezualens, Cubans, Chinese, North Koreans, etc... if you don't believe me. My question is, at what cost safety? To me, liberty is worth far, far more than safety. Nothing can ever guarantee us safety, so why give away liberty in an attempt to gain a mirage? To me the tradeoff is simply unacceptable. I know what it's like to live in a dictatorship. I grew up in one in which one person's word was law, and woe betide you if you crossed that will no matter how unintentionally.

Liberty of conscience, liberty of thought, liberty of action, liberty to protect yourself is worth far more than the alternative. It's like comparing diamonds to mud.

 

[Gary K]

The following link is an interesting article on Devin Kelly. It pretty much reveals his motivations.

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017...ch-shooter-atheist-thought-christians-stupid/

 

[glorydaz]

Terrorists. Who cares if they're crazy or sane? Besides the point, most leftists lump terrorists together with "individuals who go crazy" anyway, there's no distinction, so why are we calling them "individuals who go crazy" instead of terrorists?

This is the result of this latest terrorist attack upon America, from C-N-N: "Pastor's wife: 'Most of our church family is gone'"

Was this not anti-Christian terrorism, when "most" of a Christian church is "gone?"

I read he was a self described atheist. Clearly, he blamed those "goody goody Christians"....his ex wife's family were church goers. Some men just hate good and love evil. This guy seems to be one of those.

 

[musterion]

https://www.westernjournalism.com/james-woods-not-single-nra-member-ever-responsible-mass-shooting/

 

[musterion]

http://datechguyblog.com/2017/11/06...rnie-sanders-campaign-volunteers/#readability

 

[musterion]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/358942-texas-gov-abbot-gunman-was-denied-gun-permit

 

[jgarden]

I continue to be appalled as to the number of conservative Christians who are the most ardent supporters of the NRA agenda - including the proliferation of assault weapons!

 

[musterion]

A true leftist, all right.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-devin-patrick-kelley-dated-13-year-old-girl/

 

[musterion]

http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/texas-church-shooter-tried-to-bribe-underage-girls-to-date-him/

 

[musterion]

The guy who tackled Rand Paul from behind and broke five of his ribs is an avowed socialist.

What is it with leftists and violence against people who can't defend themselves or don't see them coming?

 

[This Charming Manc]

Hi Nihilo,

Your not wrong to use the word terror, and if it makes you feel in anyway better go ahead.

I tend to draw the distinction that terrorism is done in pursuit of a cause, however mad or insane the cause is.

It doesn't seem this chap had a cause or motive beyond hate and personal vendetta.

I fully understand you wanting to draw maximum attention to heinous nature of his crimes, but I do find the distinction real.

All the best.

 

[This Charming Manc]

I feel safe at every church I attend because I know there is virtually no chance that man will burst in with evil intent armed with an assault rifle and dressed in body armour.

In a country with 300,000,000 guns in personal possession, I understand the feeling of wanting good men round with guns to keep you safe.

But I feel and stats show i am safer in a country with virtually no guns in public ownership.

There's a church I attend here sometimes with David Crank, they have two Missouri State Troopers at the back of the assembly, have for years. My uncle's church in the country has several elders that have hand guns out to see sometimes before service. I feel safe at those churches because of it.

 

[musterion]

I feel safe at every church I attend because I know there is virtually no chance that man will burst in with evil intent armed with an assault rifle and dressed in body armour.

In a country with 300,000,000 guns in personal possession, I understand the feeling of wanting good men round with guns to keep you safe.

But I feel and stats show i am safer in a country with virtually no guns in public ownership.

Great.

Now get to work getting rid of acid attacks to the face, bucket bombs, random knifings, etc. Let us know when you've eliminated all crime, as you're surely well on your way to doing. Pip pip, cheerio, what?

 

[musterion]

I feel safe at every church I attend

Very telling that different churches are completely interchangeable for you. They all preach leftist doctrine, no doubt, so you're quite at home wherever you go.

 

[jgarden]

The odds of being murdered using a firearm in the US in a given year are about 30,000 to 1.

The odds of being killed in the US by a refugee terrorist are 3.6 billion to 1.

Despite evidence to the contrary, Trump and his "motley crew" of conservative supporters continue to stress the threat of "refugee terrorists" to public safety, while refusing to confront the real threat of domestic gun violence - particularly the carnage associated with assault rifles!

 

[This Charming Manc]

I wish we could and life was that simple but its not.

But just because we cant eliminate one evil, does not mean we should ignore what can be done about another.

The UK murder rate is 0.98 per 100,000 population, the US is 4.88 per 100,000 population the main difference is guns.

Obfuscate and insult all you want, but you blindly defend a system that needlessly kills Americans.

Great.

Now get to work getting rid of acid attacks to the face, bucket bombs, random knifings, etc. Let us know when you've eliminated all crime, as you're surely well on your way to doing. Pip pip, cheerio, what?

 

[Nihilo]

Hi Nihilo,

Your not wrong to use the word terror, and if it makes you feel in anyway better go ahead.

I tend to draw the distinction that terrorism is done in pursuit of a cause, however mad or insane the cause is.

It doesn't seem this chap had a cause or motive beyond hate and personal vendetta.

I fully understand you wanting to draw maximum attention to heinous nature of his crimes, but I do find the distinction real.

All the best.

I understand, and tomato-tomahto on the one hand, and on the other, there is already a perfectly good English word that names the type of thing that a mass shooting is, and it's terrorism. :e4e: