Shooting at First Baptist Church in Texas

[Tambora]

That's what I said in the beginning; only law enforcement and the military should have guns, not the general population.

Now your using my reasoning to defend you warped beliefs? You are insane.

Why?

Perhaps he thinks his wife would be better protected using a kitchen butter knife to fend off a drug induced gang member that broke into the house while she waits for law enforcement or the military to show up. (And that's only if she is able to even make a call to them as she is fending off the attacker.)

 

[glorydaz]

Dear oh dear, the fruit of the spirit are: love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance. Nothing there about killing people with guns.


Jesus was tortured to death and for gave those who done that. That is the example to those who call themselves Christians. Not carrying guns and killing people.

The difference, of course, is that Jesus came to die.

He never meant for us to offer ourselves to those who seek to kill us.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Because you say so?

No because I looked at the figures and realised the total gun murders, were very similar to the difference in the number of murders between the two countries, over a number of years.

So the UK rate is around 1.2 the US is 4.88,you find figures for US gun homicides a year is around 3.5 to 4.00 depending on the year. So statistically the approximate difference between the figures is your gun homicide rate.

About 75 - 80% of US murder are committed with guns, now it would be sensible to assume that some of the murders would be committed by other means if guns were not available, but the comparison between the figures would suggest it may be smaller than we would first assume.

The difference is probably more to do with how murder is defined in each nation and how each judiciary works.

I found that hard when looking at other crime rates, when examining data for these discussions. ie what assault, gun crime and sexual crime can vary massively from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, as laws, implementation and recording processes vary.

However death is pretty much a binary state, so there is little room for interpretation when it comes to homicide figures, thus probably making them the easiest to compare.

I do try to double check my figures and research my arguments from neutral sources, mainly so I don't misquote something and look stupid, but it also does I critically examine my position and have modified it over time.

I'd ask you not make wild assumptions that dismiss evidence against your preferred stance and examine your own arguments with a critical eye.

 

[Tambora]

The difference, of course, is that Jesus came to die.

He never meant for us to offer ourselves to those who seek to kill us.

I don't know what you mean.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't know what you mean.

Me neither. I just say stuff so I'll get some rep.

 

[Tambora]

Me neither.

Jacob might.

I just say stuff so I'll get some rep.

 

[Nihilo]

Mat 10:34 Not Peace, but a Gun "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace but a gun.

Joh 18:10 Then Simon Peter, who had a gun, pulled it out and shot the high priest's slave, blowing off his right ear. (Now the slave's name was Malchus.)

Then Jesus said to them...
Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now, the one who has a money bag must take it, and likewise a traveler's bag too. And the one who has no Gun must sell his cloak and buy one.

John 18:11 But Jesus said to Peter, "Put your gun back into its sheath! Am I not to drink the cup that the Father has given me?"

Rom 8:35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will trouble, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or gun?

let's end with...

Rev 13:10 If anyone is meant for captivity,into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed by the gun,then by the gun he must be killed. This requires steadfast endurance and faith from the saints.

Was the Sword the gun of it's day? If so the apostles opened carried
:think:
Paul

Bravo Paul.

 

[Nihilo]

That's what I said in the beginning; only law enforcement and the military should have guns, not the general population.

What is it about law enforcement and the armed forces that might or would make them all more responsible with guns?

Now your using my reasoning

You don't have "reasoning" here. And it's "you're."

to defend you warped beliefs

"Warped beliefs" being the rights to life, and to self defense. lain:

? You are insane.

lain:

 

[Nihilo]

Dear oh dear, the fruit of the spirit are: love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance. Nothing there about killing people with guns.


Jesus was tortured to death and for gave those who done that. That is the example to those who call themselves Christians. Not carrying guns and killing people.

If you are unwilling to defend your own life, and the life of your family, that's your issue, not ours. You can't bring yourself to permit others to disagree with you, without telling us we're satanists? You throw around the words warped and insane a lot---look in the mirror.

 

[Nihilo]

No because I looked at the figures and realised the total gun murders, were very similar to the difference in the number of murders between the two countries, over a number of years.

So the UK rate is around 1.2 the US is 4.88,you find figures for US gun homicides a year is around 3.5 to 4.00 depending on the year. So statistically the approximate difference between the figures is your gun homicide rate.

About 75 - 80% of US murder are committed with guns, now it would be sensible to assume that some of the murders would be committed by other means if guns were not available, but the comparison between the figures would suggest it may be smaller than we would first assume.

I'm not saying this is the most elegant argument, but since we must have about four times as many murderers in America per capita as you do over there, doesn't it seem rather barbaric to ponder stripping Americans of the freedom to possess guns to protect ourselves from them all?

 

[exminister]

Well that's pretty cool for them.
But they still don't sell any guns.

What is your point? I don’t see how that matters. Please explain.

 

[exminister]

They have the right to life also. :idunno: Does someone's right to life deny everybody else theirs?

That’s why we discuss and weigh issues, which is a lost art in the US and Congress.
There is no room for discussion and FF’s response to me shows that. Many have been so stuck in their sphere, not opening up to the other side, that even to question something makes the other a Nazi or a Communist or a destroyer of the Constitution and the questioner wants the US to become North Korea or something like that. Not sure where the We The People went or if it will ever come back.

As I said I own a rifle and I wouldn’t want it to be taken away UNLESS I was abusive to my wife and kids. If I was convicted of a crime involving violence I lose my right to bear arms because I have demonstrated I am a menace. Such a thing happens to my driver’s license if I drive recklessly or driving under the influence.

If you were convicted (not just charged) of domestic violence do you believe you still have a right to have guns? I expect you to divert my question by asking a question, but hope I am wrong.

 

[exminister]

Right to life. What about the 100,000 (probably more) victims of crime and possible death at the end of a gun barrel from a criminal?

Death is 10,000 a year. Not sure where the 100k came from.

If a guy pull out a gun and pointed at you saying Give me your money? Would you do as he says or try to draw your concealed weapon to see if you could win?

 

[patrick jane]

Death is 10,000 a year. Not sure where the 100k came from.

If a guy pull out a gun and pointed at you saying Give me your money? Would you do as he says or try to draw your concealed weapon to see if you could win?

I would be alert and have my firearm ready. Who says it's concealed?

 

[Tambora]

What is your point? I don’t see how that matters. Please explain.

I posted it as info.
While watching news videos of the incident, I noticed a few comments made (in the comment section for viewers) that some thought the NRA sold guns.

 

[WizardofOz]

I would be alert and have my firearm ready. Who says it's concealed?

Do you walk around in public with a gun in your hand?

 

[patrick jane]

Do you walk around in public with a gun in your hand?

No, just talkin' smack. Bluster. But I can in Missouri, not in my hand but not concealed.

 

[exminister]

I would be alert and have my firearm ready. Who says it's concealed?

Says me.

For reals?
You open carry where you live now?
Can you go into banks with it like that?
Where can’t you go with it on you?


### edit
See you answered my question.

 

[patrick jane]

Says me.

For reals?
You open carry where you live now?
Can you go into banks with it like that?
Where can’t you go with it on you?

No I don't, the obvious places don't allow guns like schools. courts, government buildings, businesses like grocery stores etc.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_52cae4d3-310c-5c89-a55e-007ec99fefbf.html

 

[Tambora]

If a guy pull out a gun and pointed at you saying Give me your money? Would you do as he says or try to draw your concealed weapon to see if you could win?

Having a gun does not incompasitate your common sense.
If a guy has the drop on ya, ya give him your money.
And when he turns to run off with it, your shoot him in the butt a couple of times, and then the kill shot.
Then you get your money back, and his gun too.
Now you have what we call a 'throw away gun'.
That's a gun you can use to kill your brother-in-law for beating your sister, and the gun can't be traced back to you.

That's 2 criminals dead, and you didn't lose a dime.
And the bonus is that the taxpayers are not burdened with the cost of prison accommodations.

It's a win win win win win ......... all because a citizen was able to exercise his 2nd amendment right.
No paid police officer or military personnel required, so your city could cut back on that cost now.
Another win!