beloved57
Well-known member
Yes as long as you understand believers were saved by Christ before they believed.
Scriptures that show that Christs death saved a person while in unbelief !
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beloved57
Well-known member
According to Heb 10:10,14 how were they sanctified and perfected ?
Posts 3, 8, 10, 12 did you understand them?
Yes, I did.
God supplied the means of humanity's redemption before I was born.
While I was unredeemed.
But if I ignore the attraction of God and of Jesus Christ, I will be lost.
There are still plenty unredeemed people in the world, despite what God has provided.
By the will of God..."By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." (Heb 10:10)
The sanctifying blood is applied to us when we are crucified with Him at our "immersion" into Christ and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3:7)
beloved57
Well-known member
By the will of God and the death of Christ. Thats it ! Faith had nothing to do with it.
If I don't recognize what Christ did for me, it will not profit me it all.
The death of Christ, (and His resurrection), are the keys of that verse, as my "faithful/believing" baptism into Him and into His death will provide my remission of past sins and the death and burial of my old man.
That will provide my being raised with Him to walk in newness of life.
It is written that way in Rom 6:3-6..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
I especially love the results; written of in the next verse..."For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
You will have to be a tad more specific.
beloved57
Well-known member
Dod you understand the answer ?
That was directed at B57. Not you. He's not one to answer challenges to his position, so I was giving him a reminder of that.
beloved57
Well-known member
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
This is salvation, the forgiveness of sins, simply through Christs Blood. Everyone Christ died for has this forgiveness while in unbelief.
Matt 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
This is salvation, the forgiveness of sins, simply through Christs Blood. Everyone Christ died for has this forgiveness while in unbelief.
Matt 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The answer to "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"?
Yes, and I availed myself of the truth of it.
OK, thanks.
Did you catch the "in whom" part of Eph 1:17?
Salvation is out there, but it is of no effect to those who are not "in Christ".
beloved57
Well-known member
If one isnt in Christ then Christ didnt die for them anyway, Thats a condition God accomplished before the foundation of the world for those He chose in Christ. So again, those people Christ died for have remission of sins without their believing a thing.
That seems like an awfully weird belief.
You are offering salvation without people knowing they will be saved.
How does one know if they are one of the pre-chosen, so they can quit offending God and neighbor and live a life of goodness and love that reflects their God?
Will they have to wait until the day of judgement?
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes, If one wasnt in Christ before the foundation, chosen in Him, Christ wasnt their Surety, there was no legal grounds for Him to die for any individual that wasnt in Him. In fact if it wasnt for the election of God before the foundation, there would be no reason for Christ to come into the world and die for sinners at all.
That makes evangelism and missionary work superfluous.
What is the point of telling folks about Jesus if some will be saved without even being aware of Jesus?
Calvinist revision of God's Word: And he was made righteous so he could then believe in the Lord.
God's version of God's Word:
Genesis 15:6
And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
beloved57
Well-known member
See if Christ didn't die for us to deliver us from unbelief, then it would be no hope and no faith in Christ since by nature all of us as sinners are shut up unto unbelief Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all. AV
For God hath shut up together all in unbelief, in order that he might shew mercy to all. Darby
It takes the sovereign mercy of God to come out of unbelief 1 Tim 1:13
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
He obtained Mercy from the Lord
1 Cor 7:25
Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all. AV
For God hath shut up together all in unbelief, in order that he might shew mercy to all. Darby
It takes the sovereign mercy of God to come out of unbelief 1 Tim 1:13
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
He obtained Mercy from the Lord
1 Cor 7:25
Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
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