When someone says to you that we should not judge those outside the church and the reason they give is 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 how do ( would) you respond to that?
REPORT: Judge Rightly
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When someone says to you that we should not judge those outside the church and the reason they give is 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 how do ( would) you respond to that?
C
cattyfan
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You'll note in my original post, I was talking specifically about a woman who didn't want to judge the person next to her in church...but I do believe we have a duty to judge all people. It's how we handle that judgement that is important.
But I'm not afraid to admit there are things I need to learn about when and how to judge. That's why I put in a request for our pastors to do a Bible study on these issues in the coming months. It would be foolish of me to try to answer before I study more.
Thats a shame, I'd actually brought up one of those rare occasions when I was in kinda agreement with you in response to Clete......
I've directed this question directly to some and now I ask it to all...
When someone says to you that we should not judge those outside the church and the reason they give is 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 how do (would) you respond to that?
If Christians are to judge those outside the church then what specifically is Paul referring to?
When someone says to you that we should not judge those outside the church and the reason they give is 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 how do (would) you respond to that?
If Christians are to judge those outside the church then what specifically is Paul referring to?
PKevman
New member
Ok, I have an answer for you on this, and I think it is a bit simpler than many may think.
The main thing to understand is that within the context of 1 Corinthians 5, Paul is specifically dealing with the topic of immorality.
What's the point?
He is teaching the basic concept that if a person calls themselves a brother, and is sexually immoral, then they should be put out of the fellowship. A brother should not keep company with such a person if they claim to be a brother and are sexually immoral. At that point the church needs to exercise church discipline.
What of those OUTSIDE the fellowship?
As far as judging someone outside the church who is engaging in that kind of behavior, the important thing to note is that church discipline would have no effect on an unbeliever. That is really the essence of what the Apostle is saying. In other words, withdrawing fellowship and/or putting an unbeliever out of the fellowship would have no effect whatsoever.
That is why Paul says:
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
What is the purpose of putting someone out of the fellowship?
The idea behind church discipline is highlighted earlier in the chapter:
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
It's always done with the goal of getting that professing brother to repent and turn away from that wickedness! The text also hints that such a person is not really a believer at all! (see again the end of verse #5 "that his spirit may be saved"). A person who is already saved and has been sealed with the Holy Spirit does NOT need to be saved! :think:
So again the idea of this particular passage is church discipline, and that church discipline should not be used on unbelievers.
Another point to consider:
The other damaging thing that can be done with this text is to say that we should constantly keep company with sexually immoral unbelievers! Paul by no means is advocating that either.
But the idea behind what he says in verses 9-10 is that we cannot reach the lost with the message of reconciliation (see 2 Corinthians 5:18-21) if we aren't in their midst as in being around them! Further he makes the point that we cannot get away from them, for they are everywhere around us! (The gas station, the supermarket, the restaraunt, etc....) (See verse #10- We'd have to go out of this world!)
WIN THEM TO CHRIST!
This means rubbing shoulders with the wicked and the sexually immoral at least for the purpose of winning them to Christ and during the normal course of daily living. Certainly the text does NOT mean that we participate in, celebrate, or affirm, the wicked lifestyle of a sexually immoral unbeliever. There are far more passages in Scripture that teach that we should not do this.
This also does not mean that we should not come to the place where we realize we are casting pearls to swine and move on after we've made attempts to reach a particular lost person.
So to summarize:
Paul is just saying that we can't reach them if we're not in their midst (some had misunderstood his teaching which is why he said at the beginning of verse #10 "Yet I certainly did not mean..."), and he's saying that we cannot reach an unbeliever by utilizing church discipline or putting that immoral unbeliever out of the fellowship of the brethren, because they just won't care.
Thank you for your response PastorKevin. I always appreciate your insight!
Thank you again.
Thank you again.
PKevman
New member
Anytime my friend and brother. :up:
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I always laugh at the do not judge crowd. When they they tell us that it is "wrong to judge" aren't they judging
Christians are expected to judge; Christians by necessity judge.
Judge = Discern and evaluate.
As a Christian, I can evaluate and discern that many around me are unbelievers and non-Christians, due to their sinful behaviors, bad choices and practices, and lack of love and faithfulness in God and His Word. I am allowed to judge these things, and warn my fellow man that they should repent of such wickedness.
However, that does not mean I can or should tell them they are forever lost to hellfire, because for all I know, tomorrow God might extend and bestow His grace upon that same person; regenerating them to new life in His Son, and gifting them with faith to believe and ability to turn from their sinful ways.
We never know whether today's enemy, might be a brother tomorrow.
Christians are forbidden to judge the eternal fate of another person. No Christian has the right to tell another, they are going to hell, for it is not in the purview of any man to know the ultimate fate of another.
So, God tells us to love our enemies; pray for our enemies; hope for our enemies . . .all the while refusing to condone their practices and sins.
Nang
And how is that judgment to be handled?
I judge that it's ideal for you to adjoin practice with confession.
Agreed. This may be something that you need to work on.
Prolifeguyswife
New member
This is good stuff. :thumb: When someone tells me not to judge, I tell them not to force their morality on me
This is good stuff. :thumb: When someone tells me not to judge, I tell them not to force their morality on me
Everyone judges ... it's human nature. Whether or not someone's judgment is actually helpful and taken seriously depends entirely on how they come across.
If some is judging to judge without any intent on helping, then the judgment is being done for the purpose of boistering the judger's self esteem and self worth.
Poly
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I always pray that I'll get to be a part of throwing the book at Hillary Clinton on judgement day. But whoever gets to do this won't be doing it with any intent of helping her because it's too late. But it will likely help the one/s doing the judging when they see the vengeance and rejoice.
Prolifeguyswife
New member
Yeah, Jinkx, you want to join us on Judgment day? You would be a really great bookthrower. All you have to do is turn your life over to Jesus!
No thanks, I prefer throwing things only at those that actually break the law or act maliciously with the intent of hurting others. Throwing things at those that disagree with me doesn't meet that criteria.
But thanks for the invite anyways! :thumb:
PKevman
New member
How sad that you are willingly choosing the smoking over the non-smoking section of eternity.
How sad that you are willingly choosing the smoking over the non-smoking section of eternity.
Not particularly. I know that cigarettes exist, tried them once at the age of 16 and decided I hated them. It's pretty easy to make a decision IF the evidence presented is provable and infallible.
Like an F22, that went over your head.
What kind of prayer is that? Where is the Christianity in praying to be part of doing this to someone before they've even died? I would have thought that praying for her to find this 'narrow path' would have been more in keeping with what God would want? Seeing as God doesn't want anyone to perish i would have thought this would include Hilary Clinton...
Strikes me that this is purely to do with a strong dislike of the woman because her politics differ from yours.....