REPORT: God's plan of salvation

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Ben Masada

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TimLutz said:
Ben Masada said:
So God is obligated/forced to forgive?

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The Lord has nothing to forgive any one for. If we offend some one, only that person can forgive what we have done. Remember what Jesus himself said in Matthew 5:23,24. If you come to the altar to get forgiveness for some thing and remembers that some one else has an issue against you, leave every thing behind and go set things right with your neighbor and only then you can return and continue with your plead. It means that there is no forgiveness from God if we first don't get it from whom we have offended.
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Ben Masada

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chrysostom said:
love can do that
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But we cannot get forgiveness for lack of love. Love is an emotion and emotions are not subject to the Law. Forgiveness must be achieved from whom we have offended as a result of respect. Respect yes, it is even demanded of us to be able to live in society.
 
TimLutz

TimLutz

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Ben Masada said:
Not in the sense of man's love controlled by emotions. God is a Spiritual Being. He does not love the way man does. God's love is akin to the natural laws.
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Better explain that one a bit deeper. So does God have emotions?

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Ben Masada

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TimLutz said:
Better explain that one a bit deeper. So does God have emotions?

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That's not what I said; and I believe my post was pretty much clear. Our love is based on our emotions as humans. God cannot be compared to humans. Read Isaiah 46:5. God is a Spirit. (John 4:24)
 
TimLutz

TimLutz

New member
Ben Masada said:
That's not what I said; and I believe my post was pretty much clear. Our love is based on our emotions as humans. God cannot be compared to humans. Read Isaiah 46:5. God is a Spirit. (John 4:24)
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But does He have free will?

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TimLutz

TimLutz

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Ben Masada said:
But we cannot get forgiveness for lack of love. Love is an emotion and emotions are not subject to the Law. Forgiveness must be achieved from whom we have offended as a result of respect. Respect yes, it is even demanded of us to be able to live in society.
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But it was stated many times that all offences are against God first. Highlight King David.

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TimLutz

TimLutz

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Ben Masada said:
TimLutz said:
The Lord has nothing to forgive any one for. If we offend some one, only that person can forgive what we have done. Remember what Jesus himself said in Matthew 5:23,24. If you come to the altar to get forgiveness for some thing and remembers that some one else has an issue against you, leave every thing behind and go set things right with your neighbor and only then you can return and continue with your plead. It means that there is no forgiveness from God if we first don't get it from whom we have offended.
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There seems to be a slight flaw here. But, not insurmountable. There could be many occasions where it is impossible for one to seek forgiveness of the harmed. But that would be covered by intention and change of actions to show.

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Ben Masada

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TimLutz said:
But does He have free will?

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God does not have any thing. He is what He is. What one has can be taken away; what one is he is no matter what. We are the ones who have what is in us because any thing we have is limited, if not by death by our natural limitations. Not so with the Lord.
 
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Ben Masada

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TimLutz said:
But it was stated many times that all offences are against God first. Highlight King David.

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God cannot be offended. Who are we to offend God. Any reference in the Scriptures to offenses against God is only from the pious point of view to enhance homage to God's Law. Hence what Jesus implied when one comes to the Temple to plead for forgiveness. He said to stop every thing and go get forgiveness first from whom we have offended. Otherwise, God won't even listen to your prayer. (Mat. 5:23,24)
 
journey

journey

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Ben Masada said:
God cannot be offended. Who are we to offend God. Any reference in the Scriptures to offenses against God is only from the pious point of view to enhance homage to God's Law. Hence what Jesus implied when one comes to the Temple to plead for forgiveness. He said to stop every thing and go get forgiveness first from whom we have offended. Otherwise, God won't even listen to your prayer. (Mat. 5:23,24)
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Ephesians 4:25-32 KJV Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Ben Masada said:
God cannot be offended. Who are we to offend God. Any reference in the Scriptures to offenses against God is only from the pious point of view to enhance homage to God's Law. Hence what Jesus implied when one comes to the Temple to plead for forgiveness. He said to stop every thing and go get forgiveness first from whom we have offended. Otherwise, God won't even listen to your prayer. (Mat. 5:23,24)
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Was God offended at the jews who worshipped the golden calf ?
 
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Ben Masada

New member
journey said:
Ephesians 4:25-32 KJV Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
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God is not like a man to be grieved by another. This is just to mean good social relations among men. (Isa. 46:5)
 
journey

journey

New member
Ben Masada said:
God is not like a man to be grieved by another. This is just to mean good social relations among men. (Isa. 46:5)
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It appears that you have a reading comprehension problem. God is obviously offended when we sin against Him and break His commandments. Here's another passage for you:

Exodus 20:3-5 KJV Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
 
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