Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

[God's Truth]

Teaching the world that Christ did not die for all is, de facto, a wholesale destruction of the Gospel. But to tell an unbeliever the claim that Jesus died for them in particular and, indeed, all human beings holds great power. It's rejectable, yes, but there aren't many that cannot be moved by such a notion.

Your alternative holds no power at all...most will be repulsed...even by those who accept their depravity...

John 3:14-16 has not been dealt with by yourself or anyone here on TOL. You've ignored its transparency.

Why do you say no one on TOL has dealt with that scripture? I dealt with that scripture. All who look to Jesus' shed blood on the cross can be saved, but they must also obey him, or they will not get the promise.

Joshua 5:6 The Israelites had moved about in the wilderness forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land he had solemnly promised their ancestors to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey.


Did you read that scripture?
Did you read how they did not get to enter the Promised Land because they did not obey?
That scripture is about when the people were in the desert with Moses...you know, when the bronze snake was lifted up and all who were bitten by snakes could look at it and live.

 

[God's Truth]

Acts 10:35 — But in every Nation he who ***fears*** Him, and works righteousness, is accepted WITH Him.

Acts 13:26 — Men and Brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you ***fear*** God, to you is the word of this Salvation sent.

***[53.58 φοβέομαιc: (a figurative extension of meaning of φοβέομαιa ‘to fear,’ 25.252) to have profound reverence and respect for deity, with the implication of awe bordering on fear—‘to reverence, to worship.’ καὶ τὸ ἔλεος αὐτοῦ εἰς γενεὰς καὶ γενεὰς τοῖς φοβουμένοις αὐτόν ‘and his mercy for generation after generation to those who have reverence for him’ Lk 1:50.
In Acts 13:16 the phrase οἱ φοβούμενοι τὸν θεόν, literally ‘those who fear God,’ is essentially a technical phrase to identify non-Jews who worshiped the God of the Jews. These would have been Gentiles who were ‘God fearers’ or ‘worshipers of God.’ ( Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, pp. 539–540). New York: United Bible Societies.)]

The word of this Salvation is for whosoever ACCEPTS the preaching of the word of Salvation sent — Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary.

Paul is, without apology, including the Gentiles in the preaching of God’s great Plan of Salvation.

Those ACCEPTING the preaching will be able to be accepted WITH Him.

Just believe what the scriptures plainly say.

 

[Sonnet]

Why do you say no one on TOL has dealt with that scripture? I dealt with that scripture.

Sorry - I should have mentioned that I meant Calvinists.

All who look to Jesus' shed blood on the cross can be saved, but they must also obey him, or they will not get the promise.

Joshua 5:6 The Israelites had moved about in the wilderness forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land he had solemnly promised their ancestors to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey.


Did you read that scripture?
Did you read how they did not get to enter the Promised Land because they did not obey?
That scripture is about when the people were in the desert with Moses...you know, when the bronze snake was lifted up and all who were bitten by snakes could look at it and live.

Are you suggesting Moses was not saved?

And are you also suggesting that you are now obeying without ever sinning?

 

[Cross Reference]

They the Bible into a Dr. Seuss book with their 'free grace' nonsense, too afraid to face TULIP staring right at them from every chapter in the Bible.

The 1700's marked the beginning of substantial watering down of the Gospel- as soon as the Arminians found refuge in the newly founded Methodism that spurred from the Church of England, archaic Christianity simply vanished from many of the hard line protestant sects.

Reformed and Presbyterian churches kept their ground, and that is why these people go after them. They are a threat to their constant breeding of heresy, having been responsible even for cults that they ironically denounce today.

Don't be too worried about it- most of them are only barely believers anyway

I find it interesting that in your "decreed type" of salvation you believe God finds room for those who "barely believe". So ludicrous . . . . and telling.

 

[Cross Reference]

Read Romans 9:19–21.

Notice how Paul deals with those who objected. The bottom line of Paul’s reply is this: We must bow the knee to God. He has decided not to save everybody, and we have no right to criticize Him. Can you agree?


Passages for Further Study


Job 22:5
Romans 2:1–27; 3:1–26
2 Timothy 3:13

(Ligonier Ministries))

I wonder if you can point to when God decided to save only some when He redeemed all, especially when His creating mankind speaks of having for Himself a vast family of sons?

 

[Cross Reference]

No men do not commonly show grace.

Forgiveness, understanding, compassion, love that occurs while people are still sinners.... Universal love for ALL...


God, however did and does do this for AlLL men. Or do you side with the ones that accused Jesus of showing grace to too many?

Nang continually refuses to understand that redemption was for all but not salvation because of the freewill of man to reject God's enablement that speaks: "Come unto Me". What puzzles me is why the obstinacy since obviously she hasn't rejected it but, believes it was decreed she would accept it? Sortta says, 'God loves me and doesn't love you. . . but I can't prove it'.

 

[lifeisgood]

Just believe what the scriptures plainly say.

Follow your own counsel yourself.

Learn to read the Scriptures in CONTEXT. Without CONTEXT all you're doing is cutting and pasting Scriptures.

 

[lifeisgood]

Just believe what the scriptures plainly say.

PROPER faith ALWAYS produces good works, but good works will NEVER produce proper faith.

For faith to be that which God honors, it must have the Cross of Christ as its object and the Cross alone as its object --- NOT your obedience, works, intelligence, ability, etc.

Regarding faith and works, Paul said:

“What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, has found? (Paul having stated that the Old Testament teaches that God justifies the sinner on the faith principle as opposed to the merit principle, the Holy Spirit now brings forward Abraham.)

“For if Abraham were justified by works (which he wasn’t), he has whereof to glory; but not before God (the boasting of Salvation by works, which God will NOT accept).

“For what says the Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for Righteousness ([Gen. 15:6] if one properly understands this verse, one properly understands the Bible; Abraham gained righteousness by simple faith in God --- no obedience on anything, but simple faith that a Redeemer would be sent into the world [Jn. 8:56]).

“Now to him who works (tries to earn Salvation by works) is the reward (righteousness) not reckoned of Grace (not by the Grace of God), but of debt (claiming that God owes us something, which He doesn’t!).

“But to him who works not (does NOT trust in his/her own works for Salvation), but believes on Him Who Justifies the ungodly (through Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary), his faith is counted for Righteousness (God awards righteousness only on the basis of faith IN Christ and his finished work on the Cross of Calvary)” (Rom. 4:1 5).

 

[God's Truth]

Follow your own counsel yourself.

Learn to read the Scriptures in CONTEXT. Without CONTEXT all you're doing is cutting and pasting Scriptures.

You cannot put any scripture aside. People do not believe what is plainly written, and they are the first ones to claim that a scripture was taken out of context.

 

[God's Truth]

PROPER faith ALWAYS produces good works, but good works will NEVER produce proper faith.

For faith to be that which God honors, it must have the Cross of Christ as its object and the Cross alone as its object --- NOT your obedience, works, intelligence, ability, etc.

Regarding faith and works, Paul said:

“What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, has found? (Paul having stated that the Old Testament teaches that God justifies the sinner on the faith principle as opposed to the merit principle, the Holy Spirit now brings forward Abraham.)

“For if Abraham were justified by works (which he wasn’t), he has whereof to glory; but not before God (the boasting of Salvation by works, which God will NOT accept).

“For what says the Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for Righteousness ([Gen. 15:6] if one properly understands this verse, one properly understands the Bible; Abraham gained righteousness by simple faith in God --- no obedience on anything, but simple faith that a Redeemer would be sent into the world [Jn. 8:56]).

“Now to him who works (tries to earn Salvation by works) is the reward (righteousness) not reckoned of Grace (not by the Grace of God), but of debt (claiming that God owes us something, which He doesn’t!).

“But to him who works not (does NOT trust in his/her own works for Salvation), but believes on Him Who Justifies the ungodly (through Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary), his faith is counted for Righteousness (God awards righteousness only on the basis of faith IN Christ and his finished work on the Cross of Calvary)” (Rom. 4:1 5).

You just don't get it, the works Paul was speaking of are the ceremonial works, the ceremonial works THAT WAS started by the SEAL OF CIRCUMCISION IN THE FLESH.

Paul was NOT putting down obeying God!!! Think about it harder.

 

[Sonnet]

You just don't get it, the works Paul was speaking of are the ceremonial works, the ceremonial works THAT WAS started by the SEAL OF CIRCUMCISION IN THE FLESH.

Paul was NOT putting down obeying God!!! Think about it harder.

Doesn't say ceremonial works. Paul refers to works of the law.

Galatians 3:
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.

 

[God's Truth]

Doesn't say ceremonial works. Paul refers to works of the law.

Galatians 3:
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.

The WORK OF THE LAW is the purification/ceremonial works!

Those purification works are what made a person CLEAN, or UNCLEAN

The Gentiles were SEPARATE FROM GOD and DEAD in their sins because they did not do THOSE works...they did not have the seal of CIRCUMCISION IN THEIR FLESH.

Circumcision of the flesh was the evidence that one obeyed the purification works.

However, now through Christ, the Holy Spirit is the seal and evidence.

This scripture is about the UNCIRCUMCISED GENTILES, they were the enemies because they did not clean themselves with the PURIFICATION WORKS:

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

 

[God's Truth]

Sonnet, I will prove it to you easily that what I say is true.

You used Galatians, correct?

You used Galatians 3 where Paul calls the Galatians foolish.

Do you really think that Paul called the Galatians foolish for obeying Jesus too much?

NO!

Paul called the Galatians foolish for getting talked into GETTING CIRCUMCISED and observing special days. The Jews who rejected Jesus talked the Galatians into doing that. Circumcision and observance of special days are the PURIFICATION/CEREMONIAL WORKS that no longer save. Those are the works of the law.

 

[God's Truth]

God says one must obey and humble themselves before he gives understanding.

You can study all you want but you will not be given understanding until Jesus gives it; and he gives it to those who obey.

See John 14:21, and more.

 

[God's Truth]

You can go on forever and debate with others about God's Truth, but it will be to no avail, unless you do one thing, and that is obey Jesus' teachings.

 

[God's Truth]

You have to OBEY God to receive understanding.


John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

Psalm 119:100 I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts.

Proverbs 3:32 For the LORD detests the perverse but takes the upright into his confidence.

See Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

John 8:30 While he was saying these things, many people believed in him. 31Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, "If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples

2 Timothy 2:25 correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance and then knowledge of the truth.

Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Doesn't say ceremonial works. Paul refers to works of the law.

Galatians 3:
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.

Most people who are churched, do not understand who Paul was or what he knew, because they don't understand the OT from its original light.

The Jews do though.

They understand what Deuteronomy by Moses means. They know that the Law cannot be separated or watered down.

Deuteronomy 31:26Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

26 “Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God so that it may remain there as a witness against you.

Further more, they don't realize how good the LAW is Per God, but how deadly it is to us who now knowing good from evil have the deep propensity to sin.

 

[Crucible]

I find it interesting that in your "decreed type" of salvation you believe God finds room for those who "barely believe". So ludicrous . . . . and telling.

I believe in Perseverance of the Saints.

The contrary to that- which is probably the most destructive heresy in Christianity today- is 'Free Grace'. It states that once a person confesses Christ as their savior, they are eternally secure.

..And that simply breeds reprobates.

 

[Cross Reference]

I believe in Perseverance of the Saints.

The contrary to that- which is probably the most destructive heresy in Christianity today- is 'Free Grace'. It states that once a person confesses Christ as their savior, they are eternally secure.

..And that simply breeds reprobates.

Jesus was tempted of Satan. His success in overcoming was His love and allegiance to His Father. Do you not think it is the same for the Christian that preserves him?

 

[Sonnet]

The WORK OF THE LAW is the purification/ceremonial works!

Those purification works are what made a person CLEAN, or UNCLEAN

The Gentiles were SEPARATE FROM GOD and DEAD in their sins because they did not do THOSE works...they did not have the seal of CIRCUMCISION IN THEIR FLESH.

Circumcision of the flesh was the evidence that one obeyed the purification works.

However, now through Christ, the Holy Spirit is the seal and evidence.

This scripture is about the UNCIRCUMCISED GENTILES, they were the enemies because they did not clean themselves with the PURIFICATION WORKS:

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Mat 23:23
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness.