Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

[God's Truth]

I can hardly believe it.

 

[Eagles Wings]

No, they say I am lost, and you joined in with them.

You need to stop misjudging me.

Paul says those who say I belong to ___, they are worldly.

Worldly means lost.

You keep talking about Spurgeon and other men when you could be talking about God's Word.

That is a lie. I did not join in. Knock it off.

 

[God's Truth]

That is a lie. I did not join in. Knock it off.

I don't lie, false witness.
I was falsely accused by people here and you joined in with them instead of standing up against their false behavior.

You also keep talking about Spurgeon when you could be talking about God's Word.

Those things prove worldliness.

 

[Cross Reference]

God saves those who believe in His only begotten Son.

And then Calvin steps in to declare there is nothing more to be had and if one makes any attempt to know God, without realizing it, he is accused of working for his salvation [even though he has already confessed Christ]. So everyone stops being a Christian and goes back to the world for happiness..

 

[God's Truth]

And then Calvin steps in to declare there is nothing more to be had and if one makes any attempt to know God, without realizing it, he is accused of working for his salvation [even though he has already confessed Christ]. So everyone stops being a Christian and goes back to the world for happiness..

NO ONE gets saved/born again until they believe AND OBEY GOD.

 

[Eagles Wings]

I don't lie, false witness.
I was falsely accused by people here and you joined in with them instead of standing up against their false behavior.

You also keep talking about Spurgeon when you could be talking about God's Word.

Those things prove worldliness.

It's the mods job to regulate behavior, not mine.

I'll answer no more posts of yours in this regard.

 

[Nang]

Please forgive the formatting, Nang, as I am replying on a phone for the first time (ever).

The one thing I found with nearly any church I attended as I grew up (mostly mainstream evangelical) was a constant emphasis on soteriology. People would be saved umpyeen times before they were forty. In pressing on, one is not worried about saving themselves by their works, but proving their salvation by their good works. The tree being known by its fruit. So there is a strong sense that this faithfulness is required in stewards - those God entrusts something with. And He doesn't do that with those who aren't His. So my saying that we must be found faithful is a true statement (and biblical) but to the one it is intended, salvation is not the question - or else one would be working for one's salvation - which is not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy.

The Reformed view of perseverance (as I understand it) views salvation more as a continuous process whereby the enduring to the end proves one's standing in Christ. So (it seems to me) that the distinction between working for salvation and working because one is saved becomes almost indefinable and could very easily bring about antinomianism just as much as works salvation. That's why it is vital to have the foundation in which one rests in Christ to provide so that he (or she) can work effectually. It is His work in and through us that I see as those good works. That's why the ones Jesus commends say "When did we...?" etc... They have done the works but they aren't properly their own - thus men glorify God when they see those works.

Hopefully that clarifies a little...

Yes, thank you always for your edifying responses.

I consider enduring to the end (Perseverance) to be a promise of salvation, rather than a condition. The saints will overcome all things because it is Christ who preserves them. So our spiritual victories
are not proof of our redemption but evidence of His power and grace!

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes, thank you always for your edifying responses.

I consider enduring to the end (Perseverance) to be a promise of salvation, rather than a condition. The saints will overcome all things because it is Christ who preserves them. So our spiritual victories
are not proof of our redemption but evidence of His power and grace!

". . . if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."1 John 1:7 (KJV)

And, being the Christian you claim to be, what you think you have if you don't walk in the light as He is in the light, Nang?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Intercessory prayer doesn't seem to have any effect, even in the biblical accounts. You have Abraham and Moses praying for their people, but that was part of God's plan anyway. When the early church prayed for Peter, he was still nevertheless martyred.

Nothing shows that intercessory prayer works, only that God is immutable.

Yes, God is immutable. His decree included the fact that you would pray for this or that. The immutable God uses prayer as but one of His many means of the working out of the ends of His decree. See also:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...an-Free-Will&p=4471462&viewfull=1#post4471462

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

God's Truth Confesses She Does Not Like Confessions

God's Truth Confesses She Does Not Like Confessions

NOWHERE ANYWHERE does God tell us to make creeds.

As with other important topics, you are incorrect.

Your disdain for the confessions or creeds is likely borne from your many heresies that these very confessions and creeds were formulated in part to denounce. From the very beginning of Israel’s life as a community through its maturation in the New Testament church, the people of God have confessed what they believe with brief summaries of the Faith. We call these summaries “creeds and confessions.”

The early Church needed creeds and confessions. Jesus command his people to confess their faith, saying, “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven” (Matt 10:32; NASB). As well, the Apostle Paul said, “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved” (Rom 10:9–10).

Not only are creeds and confessions Biblical, following the scriptural pattern of expressing core beliefs, they are beneficial in many ways. According to the New Testament, the church is to be unified. Paul speaks of glorifying God “with one voice,” “standing firm in one spirit,” and “with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel” (Rom. 15:5-6; Phil. 1:27). The church also needs a clear standard of truth.

Because the church has ever existed amid false doctrines and philosophies, under the threat of being “tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine” (Eph. 4:14), the church needs to be taught the essential truths of the Word of God; in that way, it can better “contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3). For this reason, Paul preached “the whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27) and spoke of Gentile Romans who were slaves to sin coming to be “obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed” (Rom. 6:17). Paul also wrote to Timothy that he should “follow the pattern of the sound words” (2 Tim. 1:13). The creeds and confessions of the church can help in carrying out all of these mandates by establishing a common confession of the faith.

A confessional church will have a stated confession that they affirm to be the most accurate summary of Scripture. The confession is the basis of unity among the church members, refutation of heresy, and teaching. We see in the New Testament the apostle Paul praying for unity to become increasingly true within the churches. He prays that we would be “like–minded toward one another” and that we “may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom 15:5–6; Phil 1:27).

The creeds and confessions are also beneficial because they provide a public standard for church discipline. They provide an objective standard to evaluate teaching and protect members from being excommunicated and shunned without any Biblical steps of reconciliation simply because of personal differences or disagreements with the pastor. They are also useful in witnessing to the truth of the Word of God to those outside the church.

Each and every time you post something to the effect that the Bible says this or that, you are basically confessing in writing what you believe to be a summary of Scripture. You have your own personal confession whether you like it or not. Furthermore, when you reject the Confessional process, and pretend that you are being more "Scriptural" by not having a Confession, you effectively make yourself something more than an interpreter of Scripture. You have gone beyond the right of private judgment and have claimed the authority of Scripture itself for your beliefs. Because you have set yourself up above that subordinate and mediate place which the Confession occupies, you assume a supreme and immediate relationship with Scripture which makes your teaching the voice of the Holy Spirit Himself.

When individuals claim to be "Scriptural" in a sense which disallows the possibility of a confession subordinate to Scripture, they (1) deny to the church the authority to declare its mind as to what the Scriptures teach, and (2) take away from individuals the right to prove all things, to hold fast that which is good, and to abstain from all appearance of evil. So, by denying the proper function of Confessions to explicitly and subordinately interpret what Scripture teaches, the individual or the "church" sets their own implicit authority in a place of supremacy over others.

If the Confession (the normed norm) has itself been framed on Scripture (the norming norm), one would be remiss to ignore it. One must interpret Scripture by Scripture, which means a systematic understanding of Scripture is indispensable. The very term "holy Scripture" requires a confessional understanding. So yes, it must be the proper hermeneutic to approach Scripture through the lens of a confessional framework. After all, some theological framework must be brought to Scripture and it is only right that it should be an orthodox framework.

Again, the Confessions are a means of defining the unity of faith of the believers in the local church. They also serve as an effective (organized, precise, correct) means of instructing the believer or as apologetic sources for discussions with the non-believer/heterodox, as they distill and capture the doctrinal essence of major doctrines from the Scriptures, and, as stated above, they are also a means of administering discipline within the local church. These Confessions are viewed as authoritative only so long as they are found to be faithful summaries of the teachings of Scripture. This point bears repeating, the authority of our Confessions is not intrinsic, but rather the authority of our Confessions is derived from Scripture and Scripture alone.

Confessions were never intended to remove personal responsibility from the believer, but a way of transmitting wisdom and thought from one generation to another. Behind the Confessions are prayers, and study, and debate. To believe that creeds and confessions are not a source of Godly wisdom, even though they might be wrong is to argue for a No Creed but Christ, and No book but the Bible mentality. There is no need to reinvent every doctrine by every believer. Unfortunately there is a great deal of chronological snobbery, that is, that those who live in the present have greater insight than those who lived in the past. This attitude blinds many from recognizing that most of Christianity’s greatest theologians, philosophers, and apologists lived in the past.

Moreover, and contrary to what we often hear in the churches today, doctrine and theology are vital to one’s walk of faith. Our Confessions are not to tell us what to say or believe, but to tell us how to say what we believe. Without all our Creeds and Confessions, much confusion arises. One need only spend a few minutes speaking with a Jehovah Witness or a Mormon, to immediately recognize how vital the precision of the words of a Creed or Confession are needed.

Given your many heretical views, it is no wonder you decry the Scripture's teachings of the utility of creeds and confessions. :AMR:

AMR

 

[Eagles Wings]

Yes, thank you always for your edifying responses.

I consider enduring to the end (Perseverance) to be a promise of salvation, rather than a condition. The saints will overcome all things because it is Christ who preserves them. So our spiritual victories
are not proof of our redemption but evidence of His power and grace!

What a beautiful statement, Nang, as it gives cause for great joy in our Blessed Assurance.

 

[Eagles Wings]

@AMR

Wow, your post regarding confessions is a history lesson. Many thanks!

 

[God's Truth]

It's the mods job to regulate behavior, not mine.

I'll answer no more posts of yours in this regard.

I can point out your falseness in a post you made about me; and I could not care any less who you support or who supports you on it.

 

[God's Truth]

As with other important topics, you are incorrect.

Your disdain for the confessions or creeds is likely borne from your many heresies that these very confessions and creeds were formulated in part to denounce. From the very beginning of Israel’s life as a community through its maturation in the New Testament church, the people of God have confessed what they believe with brief summaries of the Faith. We call these summaries “creeds and confessions.”

The early Church needed creeds and confessions. Jesus command his people to confess their faith, saying, “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven” (Matt 10:32; NASB). As well, the Apostle Paul said, “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved” (Rom 10:9–10).

Not only are creeds and confessions Biblical, following the scriptural pattern of expressing core beliefs, they are beneficial in many ways. According to the New Testament, the church is to be unified. Paul speaks of glorifying God “with one voice,” “standing firm in one spirit,” and “with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel” (Rom. 15:5-6; Phil. 1:27). The church also needs a clear standard of truth.

Because the church has ever existed amid false doctrines and philosophies, under the threat of being “tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine” (Eph. 4:14), the church needs to be taught the essential truths of the Word of God; in that way, it can better “contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3). For this reason, Paul preached “the whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27) and spoke of Gentile Romans who were slaves to sin coming to be “obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed” (Rom. 6:17). Paul also wrote to Timothy that he should “follow the pattern of the sound words” (2 Tim. 1:13). The creeds and confessions of the church can help in carrying out all of these mandates by establishing a common confession of the faith.

A confessional church will have a stated confession that they affirm to be the most accurate summary of Scripture. The confession is the basis of unity among the church members, refutation of heresy, and teaching. We see in the New Testament the apostle Paul praying for unity to become increasingly true within the churches. He prays that we would be “like–minded toward one another” and that we “may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom 15:5–6; Phil 1:27).

The creeds and confessions are also beneficial because they provide a public standard for church discipline. They provide an objective standard to evaluate teaching and protect members from being excommunicated and shunned without any Biblical steps of reconciliation simply because of personal differences or disagreements with the pastor. They are also useful in witnessing to the truth of the Word of God to those outside the church.

Each and every time you post something to the effect that the Bible says this or that, you are basically confessing in writing what you believe to be a summary of Scripture. You have your own personal confession whether you like it or not. Furthermore, when you reject the Confessional process, and pretend that you are being more "Scriptural" by not having a Confession, you effectively make yourself something more than an interpreter of Scripture. You have gone beyond the right of private judgment and have claimed the authority of Scripture itself for your beliefs. Because you have set yourself up above that subordinate and mediate place which the Confession occupies, you assume a supreme and immediate relationship with Scripture which makes your teaching the voice of the Holy Spirit Himself.

When individuals claim to be "Scriptural" in a sense which disallows the possibility of a confession subordinate to Scripture, they (1) deny to the church the authority to declare its mind as to what the Scriptures teach, and (2) take away from individuals the right to prove all things, to hold fast that which is good, and to abstain from all appearance of evil. So, by denying the proper function of Confessions to explicitly and subordinately interpret what Scripture teaches, the individual or the "church" sets their own implicit authority in a place of supremacy over others.

If the Confession (the normed norm) has itself been framed on Scripture (the norming norm), one would be remiss to ignore it. One must interpret Scripture by Scripture, which means a systematic understanding of Scripture is indispensable. The very term "holy Scripture" requires a confessional understanding. So yes, it must be the proper hermeneutic to approach Scripture through the lens of a confessional framework. After all, some theological framework must be brought to Scripture and it is only right that it should be an orthodox framework.

Again, the Confessions are a means of defining the unity of faith of the believers in the local church. They also serve as an effective (organized, precise, correct) means of instructing the believer or as apologetic sources for discussions with the non-believer/heterodox, as they distill and capture the doctrinal essence of major doctrines from the Scriptures, and, as stated above, they are also a means of administering discipline within the local church. These Confessions are viewed as authoritative only so long as they are found to be faithful summaries of the teachings of Scripture. This point bears repeating, the authority of our Confessions is not intrinsic, but rather the authority of our Confessions is derived from Scripture and Scripture alone.

Confessions were never intended to remove personal responsibility from the believer, but a way of transmitting wisdom and thought from one generation to another. Behind the Confessions are prayers, and study, and debate. To believe that creeds and confessions are not a source of Godly wisdom, even though they might be wrong is to argue for a No Creed but Christ, and No book but the Bible mentality. There is no need to reinvent every doctrine by every believer. Unfortunately there is a great deal of chronological snobbery, that is, that those who live in the present have greater insight than those who lived in the past. This attitude blinds many from recognizing that most of Christianity’s greatest theologians, philosophers, and apologists lived in the past.

Moreover, and contrary to what we often hear in the churches today, doctrine and theology are vital to one’s walk of faith. Our Confessions are not to tell us what to say or believe, but to tell us how to say what we believe. Without all our Creeds and Confessions, much confusion arises. One need only spend a few minutes speaking with a Jehovah Witness or a Mormon, to immediately recognize how vital the precision of the words of a Creed or Confession are needed.

Given your many heretical views, it is no wonder you decry the Scripture's teachings of the utility of creeds and confessions. :AMR:

AMR

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Ask Mr. Religion For Your Post:
Crucible (Today),Eagles Wings (Today),Nang (Today),PneumaPsucheSoma (Today)



You got the the support of other Calvinists here and that means nothing concerning God's truth.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Ask Mr. Religion For Your Post:
Crucible (Today),Eagles Wings (Today),Nang (Today),PneumaPsucheSoma (Today)

You got the the support of other Calvinists here and that means nothing concerning God's truth.

I'm not a Calvinist.

His point was simple. Anything one says or writes that one affirms as what one believes IS a confession and a creed.

You have a confession and a creed. Everyone has a confession and a creed.

Standardizing a confession and creed is what all assembled Believers do in some manner, even if it's brief; and it has biblical and historical precedence as the practice within both Biblical Judaism and Christianity.

A confession or creed should not determine what one believes, it should reflect what one believes.

 

[God's Truth]

As with other important topics, you are incorrect.

I am correct.

Your disdain for the confessions or creeds is likely borne from your many heresies that these very confessions and creeds were formulated in part to denounce.

I do not go by creeds because it is a man made invention.

From the very beginning of Israel’s life as a community through its maturation in the New Testament church, the people of God have confessed what they believe with brief summaries of the Faith. We call these summaries “creeds and confessions.”

Show me that from the Holy Bible.

The early Church needed creeds and confessions. Jesus command his people to confess their faith, saying, “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven” (Matt 10:32; NASB).

See how you twist the truth. Jesus did not say confess a creed. Jesus tells us to speak his name.

As well, the Apostle Paul said, “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved” (Rom 10:9–10).

Not only are creeds and confessions Biblical, following the scriptural pattern of expressing core beliefs, they are beneficial in many ways. According to the New Testament, the church is to be unified. Paul speaks of glorifying God “with one voice,” “standing firm in one spirit,” and “with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel” (Rom. 15:5-6;

Again, we are to declare Jesus is Lord...not make creeds.

Phil. 1:27). The church also needs a clear standard of truth.

How do you ever get that scripture supports your man made creeds?

Because the church has ever existed amid false doctrines and philosophies, under the threat of being “tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine” (Eph. 4:14), the church needs to be taught the essential truths of the Word of God; in that way, it can better “contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3). For this reason, Paul preached “the whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27) and spoke of Gentile Romans who were slaves to sin coming to be “obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed” (Rom. 6:17). Paul also wrote to Timothy that he should “follow the pattern of the sound words” (2 Tim. 1:13). The creeds and confessions of the church can help in carrying out all of these mandates by establishing a common confession of the faith.

A confessional church will have a stated confession that they affirm to be the most accurate summary of Scripture. The confession is the basis of unity among the church members, refutation of heresy, and teaching. We see in the New Testament the apostle Paul praying for unity to become increasingly true within the churches. He prays that we would be “like–minded toward one another” and that we “may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom 15:5–6; Phil 1:27).

The creeds and confessions are also beneficial because they provide a public standard for church discipline. They provide an objective standard to evaluate teaching and protect members from being excommunicated and shunned without any Biblical steps of reconciliation simply because of personal differences or disagreements with the pastor. They are also useful in witnessing to the truth of the Word of God to those outside the church.

Each and every time you post something to the effect that the Bible says this or that, you are basically confessing in writing what you believe to be a summary of Scripture. You have your own personal confession whether you like it or not. Furthermore, when you reject the Confessional process, and pretend that you are being more "Scriptural" by not having a Confession, you effectively make yourself something more than an interpreter of Scripture. You have gone beyond the right of private judgment and have claimed the authority of Scripture itself for your beliefs. Because you have set yourself up above that subordinate and mediate place which the Confession occupies, you assume a supreme and immediate relationship with Scripture which makes your teaching the voice of the Holy Spirit Himself.

When individuals claim to be "Scriptural" in a sense which disallows the possibility of a confession subordinate to Scripture, they (1) deny to the church the authority to declare its mind as to what the Scriptures teach, and (2) take away from individuals the right to prove all things, to hold fast that which is good, and to abstain from all appearance of evil. So, by denying the proper function of Confessions to explicitly and subordinately interpret what Scripture teaches, the individual or the "church" sets their own implicit authority in a place of supremacy over others.

If the Confession (the normed norm) has itself been framed on Scripture (the norming norm), one would be remiss to ignore it. One must interpret Scripture by Scripture, which means a systematic understanding of Scripture is indispensable. The very term "holy Scripture" requires a confessional understanding. So yes, it must be the proper hermeneutic to approach Scripture through the lens of a confessional framework. After all, some theological framework must be brought to Scripture and it is only right that it should be an orthodox framework.

Again, the Confessions are a means of defining the unity of faith of the believers in the local church. They also serve as an effective (organized, precise, correct) means of instructing the believer or as apologetic sources for discussions with the non-believer/heterodox, as they distill and capture the doctrinal essence of major doctrines from the Scriptures, and, as stated above, they are also a means of administering discipline within the local church. These Confessions are viewed as authoritative only so long as they are found to be faithful summaries of the teachings of Scripture. This point bears repeating, the authority of our Confessions is not intrinsic, but rather the authority of our Confessions is derived from Scripture and Scripture alone.

Confessions were never intended to remove personal responsibility from the believer, but a way of transmitting wisdom and thought from one generation to another. Behind the Confessions are prayers, and study, and debate. To believe that creeds and confessions are not a source of Godly wisdom, even though they might be wrong is to argue for a No Creed but Christ, and No book but the Bible mentality. There is no need to reinvent every doctrine by every believer. Unfortunately there is a great deal of chronological snobbery, that is, that those who live in the present have greater insight than those who lived in the past. This attitude blinds many from recognizing that most of Christianity’s greatest theologians, philosophers, and apologists lived in the past.

Moreover, and contrary to what we often hear in the churches today, doctrine and theology are vital to one’s walk of faith. Our Confessions are not to tell us what to say or believe, but to tell us how to say what we believe. Without all our Creeds and Confessions, much confusion arises. One need only spend a few minutes speaking with a Jehovah Witness or a Mormon, to immediately recognize how vital the precision of the words of a Creed or Confession are needed.

Given your many heretical views, it is no wonder you decry the Scripture's teachings of the utility of creeds and confessions. :AMR:

AMR

I couldn't finish reading all that cut and paste. I really tried.

 

[God's Truth]

I'm not a Calvinist.

His point was simple. Anything one says or writes that one affirms as what one believes IS a confession and a creed.

You have a confession and a creed. Everyone has a confession and a creed.

Standardizing a confession and creed is what all assembled Believers do in some manner, even if it's brief; and it has biblical and historical precedence as the practice within both Biblical Judaism and Christianity.

A confession or creed should not determine what one believes, it should reflect what one believes.

No that is not what a creed is.

 

[steko]

No that is not what a creed is.

Yes, it is.

The word 'creed' comes from the latin 'credo- I believe'.

One would say 'I believe this or I believe that'. That's a 'creed'.

A creed is a synopsis of what one believes and as for the Christian, they are 'creeds' based on Biblical truths.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, it is.

The word 'creed' comes from the latin 'credo- I believe'.

One would say 'I believe this or I believe that'. That's a 'creed'.

A creed is a synopsis of what one believes and as for the Christian, they are 'creeds' based on Biblical truths.

There is no teaching to make a creed, and there is no example of a creed in the Holy Bible.

 

[God's Truth]

Acts 5:29 Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than human beings!