God's Truth
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Where is the evil Calvinist beliefs in the Bible? Nowhere!
Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation
- Thread starter Sonnet
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Thats hocky puck. None of the righteous in the OT, justified by THEIR faith were regenerated. None! Nor could they have been. If your really knew your scripture with regards to what the cross could only accomplish, you wouldn't write such garbage..
Therefore, you are OTL . . as in "out to lunch". 1Croref 1:1 CRV
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Lex orandi, lex credenda: everyone is a Calvinist on their knees.
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Some folks need to visit the optometrist as soon as possible. :AMR:
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Ask Mr. Religion
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Heh. You are one odd duck: http://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-salvation.html
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God's Truth
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Prove it then, show one scripture where God saves an unbeliever.
God's Truth
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Where are you AMR? Why do you take off when I ask this question? Your whole Calvinistic beliefs are proven to be false by that one question.
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The entire book of Jonah. The Ninivites worshiped a fish God. All other prophets were known to be killed by them, except rebellious Jonah who arrived from the mouth of a fish.
Coincidence? Or God's provision of Love?
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Huh?
The lost, the unregenerate, do not believe.
The quickened by the Spirit from among the unregenerate, the regenerate, believe.
The remainder, the reprobate, do not believe...ever.
Do you honestly think you were a believer before you were made able to be a believer by the Holy Spirit? How is that possible given the state of the unregenerate (the lost):
- is deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9);
- is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- is not able to come to Jesus unless given to by God (Eph. 2:2);
- must be quickened by God (Eph. 2:4-5);
- cannot choose righteousness until regenerated (Titus 3:5);
- loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- is unrighteous, does not understand, does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12);
- is helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6);
- is dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3);
- cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
It is only when God the Holy Spirit regeneratively replaces their lost hearts of stone with one of flesh (Eze. 36:26) that the lost are given the moral ability to believe and then irrevocably evidence the first fruits of their regeneration—faith and repentance.
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Sonnet
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Encouraging from your implied view that the Reformed perspective is the most accurate perspective, so if one is going to choose wisely, ignoring the Reformed view is perilous. At least those denying the Good News appreciate the fact that the Reformed view is the one to deny.
You could have easily adopted the Arminian contradictions and views and not have "fell away", no? :AMR:
All Arminians are but Calvinists in training.
AMR
Certainly there are scriptures that appear to support your view but I don't believe that they are tenable upon closer inspection.
I will re-read your link on the Gospel and come back.
Sonnet
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I certainly agree that man is depraved - and the older one gets, the more evident this becomes - but I don't see that you have substantiated that faith requires 'moral ability'.
Can you?
Cross Reference
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Indeed , the unbeliever is without excuse because God has evidenced Himself to the unbeliever that, as you said, DOES NOT require a 'gift of faith' to understand. Ergo, everyone starts out on the same footing, i.e., KNOWING there is a God. The ones who continually wilfully reject Him; who no longer wish to retain Him in their thinking after being provided understanding, He turns over to reprobation. That is what Romans 1 tells us.
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Odd duck, my foot! You are the one full of contradictions.
The OT saints were indeed saved by grace, however, at that point in time was God's grace, the amount extended to righteous man, limited insofar as it could NOT effect man beyond the grave, the abode of the dead, Abraham's bosom, Sheol. If it could have there would have been no reason for the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ. So what is your definition of Redemption if I am not correct in this?
This link is full of error except to the Calvinist, who needs to believe it to suppport his religious non-life:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-salvation.html[
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Cherry picked misapplied verses of scripture chosen to make fit a religious bent. Damnable to the ones who do so.
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How so you believe man is depraved? Where do you see that in the scriptures.
Sonnet
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How are you defining depraved?
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I am assuming what the word conveys, i.e., one without hope; totally unrighteous within Himself; incapable of being so. . . not to be confused with self righteouness; love with a hook in it or man is inherently good.
Sonnet
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I wasn't thinking of it like that. Perhaps I have used the wrong word...I don't know.