Real Science Friday: A Leading Telescope Designer in Studio

[The Barbarian]

What Jesus said about salvation was to the Jews under the gospel of circumcision.

That's not what Jesus said. You made that up, because you know what your place will be if Jesus is right. So you think you can stitch together enough verses, and delete enough others, and pettifog your way to salvation.

Do you honestly think you're smarter than God, Tom? Do it His way.

 

[Dr.Watson]

Who is this Jewish Carpenter you so admire? And why do you admire Him?

Did I say I admired him? I simply noted that you worship him (are his so-called "follower"), and yet are nothing like him. Said nothing about admiration on my part.

In an atheist worldview, moral values can't be justified.

Says you. Meanwhile, evolutionary social sciences and psychology explain human morality just fine.

What Ultimate Standard are you standing on when you make these moral pronouncements?

There is no Ultimate Standard. This is a non sequitur you've made up to deflect my observation that you are nothing like the character that you worship. I have made absolutely no "moral pronouncements".

 

[TeeJay]

=Dr.Watson;2775608]Did I say I admired him? I simply noted that you worship him (are his so-called "follower"), and yet are nothing like him. Said nothing about admiration on my part.

Dr. Watson,

Then why are you condemning me for not living up to His standards? If you do not admire Him then why do you want me to be like Him? And I asked, "Who do you think He is?

Says you. Meanwhile, evolutionary social sciences and psychology explain human morality just fine.

This can't possibly be true. If morality evolves by accident, then my morality and your morality and Barb's morality and Granite's morality can't possibly be the same. If not the same then subjective. None of us could condemn another's morality. We are all accidents of chemicals.

Morality is non-contradictory and some particular behavior can't be both moral and immoral at the same time and in the same way. Do you agree?

There is no Ultimate Standard. This is a non sequitur you've made up to deflect my observation that you are nothing like the character that you worship. I have made absolutely no "moral pronouncements".

If you have no Ultimate Standard, then you have no moral ground to make moral pronouncements about me or anyone or any behavior.

And you are using Jesus Christ as a Standard to judge me--a Standard that you deny.

To assert a "non sequitur" you have to use laws of logic. In your worldview, where only the physical exists, you can't justify the use of laws of logic. Laws of logic are not physical. So you are using the non-physical laws of logic to argue that there is nothing but the physical. This is like arguing that there is no such thing as a good argument (not very logical).

Now atheists use logic. But when they do, they are not being consistent within their worldview. They are borrowing from the theist worldview to argue against the theist worldview. And in doing so, you affirm your worldview false and the theist worldview true.

Tom

 

[TeeJay]

=The Barbarian;2775518]That's not what Jesus said. You made that up, because you know what your place will be if Jesus is right. So you think you can stitch together enough verses, and delete enough others, and pettifog your way to salvation.

Do you honestly think you're smarter than God, Tom? Do it His way.

Barb.,

I asked you if you wanted me to provide scripture. Instead you accuse me of it all being "made up." Why did you do that?

And I'm not really worried about my salvation; I'm worried about yours.

My salvation is guaranteed by the Holy Spirit. Would you like Scripture?

Tom

 

[TeeJay]

You keep trying to change the subject, and it's not going to work. Your words put the lie to your claim that you're any kind of Christian. If anything, you're just a rotten example of one. You're a complete and utter hypocrite. You hold the needy and poor in contempt in direct contradiction to what you were told to do, and you're a total waste of skin.

Granite,

In an atheist worldview, why would it be wrong to obfuscate and lie?

You can't really use Christianity as a standard to judge any behavior, because you are an atheist. Please stop borrowing from my worldview.

And I'm a total "waste of skin." Come on, Granite! You can do better than that. Tell me how your really feel about me. If you are going to call me names instead of a cogent argument, I expect better name calling than this! Your name calling is very amaturish.

What would be wrong with being a hypocrite in an atheist worldview?

In an atheist worldview, wouldn't starving the needy mean more food for you and thus, insure your survival. That would be perfectly acceptable in an atheist worldview. Right?

Tom

 

[some other dude]

And I'm a total "waste of skin." Come on, Granite! You can do better than that. Tell me how your really feel about me. If you are going to call me names instead of a cogent argument, I expect better name calling than this! Your name calling is very amaturish.

It's his fall back when he's frustrated and crabby.

 

[Granite]

Granite,

In an atheist worldview, why would it be wrong to obfuscate and lie?

You can't really use Christianity as a standard to judge any behavior, because you are an atheist. Please stop borrowing from my worldview.

And I'm a total "waste of skin." Come on, Granite! You can do better than that. Tell me how your really feel about me. If you are going to call me names instead of a cogent argument, I expect better name calling than this! Your name calling is very amaturish.

What would be wrong with being a hypocrite in an atheist worldview?

In an atheist worldview, wouldn't starving the needy mean more food for you and thus, insure your survival. That would be perfectly acceptable in an atheist worldview. Right?

Tom

Again: you're trying to deflect attention from yourself. And it hasn't worked on anyone here. You're a loathsome creature who hides behind religion in an attempt to justify how miserable and twisted you are. End of story.

And that'll do it for my participation in this thread, at least while you're around it. If I want to see some despicable and filthy I can drive up to the town landfill, not watch you wallow in self-congratulation.

The world would be a better place without your kind.

 

[some other dude]

And that'll do it for my participation in this thread, at least while you're around it.

And Granite sets himself up for inclusion in my "Mock posters Who..." thread!

Will he have the control to follow through or will he fail?

Stay tuned!

 

[Arthur Brain]

AB,

You hide behind "other" so that no one can attack your position. In the old westerns you are the coward who hides behind a building to bushwhack the marshall in the back. You don't want to come out and face the marshall face to face.

Again, you are making moral judgments and prounouncements. What moral foundation are you standing on to do so?

Tom

Oh give me a break. People are welcome to attack my position whenever they want, that being with salient and relevant arguments to the debate in question. If my beliefs were of such concern to you then why wait until now to make such a big deal of it?!

As it goes Tom I happen to believe there's a God. You want more detail then send me a PM.

lain:

 

[Arthur Brain]

Quite frankly Tom, I don't know why you waste any time at all with chuckleheads like Granite and artie.

Says the guy who goes to the extent of 'creating' a thread for me. Witless as ever dude....

 

[some other dude]

Says the guy who goes to the extent of 'creating' a thread for me.

Oh artie, have you forgotten the purpose of that thread already? :chuckle:

Oh well, I'll give you a break. Looks like you just woke up from your nappie.

How are you feeling artie?

Witless as ever dude....

:thumb:

 

[Arthur Brain]

AB,

I did answer this once. Yes! Not only should you be admonished, but you should be punished--severely. When this "smelly creature" bought a bottle of cheap wine with the money you gave him, and vomited all over himself, the police should handcuff you to him and make you take him home and feed him and keep him clean for at least two weeks. Then both of you should be brought back before the court. If you had not learned your lesson and repented, you would be sent hom for another two weeks.

Now after the first two weeks, the "smelly creature" would be begging the judge to release him from you.

Tom

Why are you putting "smelly creature" in inverted commas Tom? This was entirely your description of those without shelter so don't pretend otherwise. Furthermore I actually said 'give someone a meal' so this pathetic rant about how such would vomit over himself after buying a bottle of cheap wine is just you being utterly asinine all over again.

Was Lazarus a smelly creature Tom? Did Dives do the right thing by denying him even the crumbs off his table? It would seem so according to you though he hardly comes off as a decent bloke in the story does he?

As before Tom, and in direct answer to you previously I already have put up someone who had nowhere to live for a few days, so if I need to repent of helping out those less fortunate than myself then God will see to my 'punishment' in due course.

You on the other hand need to look up the words 'compassion' and 'empathy' in the dictionary.

Unbelievable.

lain:

 

[Arthur Brain]

Oh artie, have you forgotten the purpose of that thread already? :chuckle:

Oh well, I'll give you a break. Looks like you just woke up from your nappie.

How are you feeling artie?




:thumb:

Purpose? You mean other than your own usual grandstanding?

Nope, nothing to get dude, as per usual. Still, carry on chuckling at yourself.

:e4e:

 

[some other dude]

Purpose? You mean other than your own usual grandstanding?

Oh artie, you really have forgotten?

That thread is a place to put you when you start clogging up threads with your usual whining nonsense.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Oh artie, you really have forgotten?

That thread is a place to put you when you start clogging up threads with your usual whining nonsense.

Oh dude, for Pete's sake if you're gonna insult then attach some originality and wit to it at least. You're as repetitive and boring as a double glazing commercial on loop with this continuous crap. Break out the creative put downs and try to make it entertaining man!

 

[TeeJay]

Granite;2775737]Again: you're trying to deflect attention from yourself. And it hasn't worked on anyone here. You're a loathsome creature who hides behind religion in an attempt to justify how miserable and twisted you are. End of story.

Granite,

What would be wrong with being loathsome creature in an atheist world? You're borrowing from the Christian worldview again. Please stay in your atheist world where all morality is relative.

And that'll do it for my participation in this thread, at least while you're around it. If I want to see some despicable and filthy I can drive up to the town landfill, not watch you wallow in self-congratulation.

But Granite! You're leaving without answering my questions? In an atheist worldview, how can you judge somethig despicable and filthy? Wouldn't you have to have a Standard first?

The world would be a better place without your kind.

In an atheist worldview, my absence would mean an easier survival for you. Right? More food for you. In an atheist worldview, nothing is "better" or worse. You have no standard to judge better or worse.

Tom

 

[some other dude]

Oh dude, for Pete's sake if you're gonna insult then attach some originality and wit to it at least. You're as repetitive and boring as a double glazing commercial on loop with this continuous crap. Break out the creative put downs and try to make it entertaining man!

Yes artie, nonsense like this. Take it over to the other thread and stop clogging up this one.

 

[TeeJay]

=Arthur Brain;2775748]Oh give me a break. People are welcome to attack my position whenever they want, that being with salient and relevant arguments to the debate in question. If my beliefs were of such concern to you then why wait until now to make such a big deal of it?!

As it goes Tom I happen to believe there's a God. You want more detail then send me a PM.

lain:

AB,

For one to attack a position, one must first exist. Do you agree?

What God? Do you believe in creation? Why are you hiding your belief?

Tom

 

[Dr.Watson]

Then why are you condemning me for not living up to His standards?

I'm not. I'm pointing out the inconsistency of belonging to a religious group that is supposed to live by a certain set of standards based on the life of a supposed man-god and yet behaving in ways completely opposite to that standard.

If you do not admire Him then why do you want me to be like Him?

Frankly I don't care what you're like or what you do. I'm just pointing out that you are not like the character Jesus of Nazareth. That's all.

And I asked, "Who do you think He is?

A fictional character loosely based on a (probable) real person who lived approximately 2000 years ago.

This can't possibly be true.

Says you. Thankfully, science doesn't depend on your twisted idea's of reality.

If morality evolves by accident, then my morality and your morality and Barb's morality and Granite's morality can't possibly be the same.

And sometimes they are not. But because we all evolved from the same ancestors, they generally are the same.

If not the same then subjective. None of us could condemn another's morality. We are all accidents of chemicals.

Non sequitur.

Now atheists use logic. But when they do, they are not being consistent within their worldview.

Yeah. I've heard you spout this garbage before. No one is buying it. It's a joke.

 

[PyramidHead]

Granite,

In an atheist worldview, why would it be wrong to obfuscate and lie?

You can't really use Christianity as a standard to judge any behavior, because you are an atheist. Please stop borrowing from my worldview.

And I'm a total "waste of skin." Come on, Granite! You can do better than that. Tell me how your really feel about me. If you are going to call me names instead of a cogent argument, I expect better name calling than this! Your name calling is very amaturish.

What would be wrong with being a hypocrite in an atheist worldview?

In an atheist worldview, wouldn't starving the needy mean more food for you and thus, insure your survival. That would be perfectly acceptable in an atheist worldview. Right?

Tom

So, the only reason you don't steal, lie, and be a hypocrite is because you're afraid of your God? If you didn't believe in God, would you do these things? I don't believe, but I don't do the sort of things you mentioned, because they're jerk things to do, and I try not to be a jerk.