Rapture Ready

[serpentdove]

Hi and why do you post a verse and not tell what it means and your POINT ?

The Feast of Trumpets is shrouded in a mystery. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. :think: The moon was concealed. The Jews needed two witnesses :Shimei: to attest to the fact that they'd seen a sliver of the moon. No one knew the day or the hour. :Shimei: The Feast of Trumpets is a high rapture watch day.

 

[Interplanner]

That's an awful lot of theory for an item that is only mentioned one time specifically. And when it was mentioned, it was interlocked with specific 1st century events... How about finding something mainstream in the Bible?

 

[Nick M]

How much oil do you need in your lamp to go in the rapture?

How many good works are needed to offset the evil you have committed?

 

[serpentdove]

How many good works are needed to offset the evil you have committed?

Eph 2:8-9

Related:

Lordship

 

[Interplanner]

How many good works are needed to offset the evil you have committed?

OK, now we are getting into the area that this was never supposed to go. You guys are doing an alternate theory of justification from sins.

We are justified from our sins by Christ. That is the question. How can a sinful person be acceptable to God? through the sacrifice of Christ.

The rapture question was taken up just once by Paul, in whose mind the whole business of the 2nd coming in judgement was coming very quickly. In the case of the Thess, they thought it was to have come so quickly that they are already asking if it was missed.

There is also the question of escaping the awful things being done by the son of perdition, and the escape was not 'dematerialization' after all. He was the leader of a revolt in 1st century Judea who ruined the country. God enabled the believers who were in Jerusalem when this happened to get away, by postponing the Roman siege against the revolt.

The question was not about what justifies a person from their sins, it was about how (mechanically) do people who are dead vs those who are living 'meet' God--as though He'd has some kind of problem working that out. There were two routes. That will be true on the last day of time as well. Let it take care of itself, OK? The question and passion of the Bible is about justification, as you can see in Rom 3-5, Gal 3-4, Phil 3, Heb 8-10, 2 Cor 3-5, Acts 13's sermon, etc.

But make no mistake: there is no other way a person is justified from their sins other than the Gospel works of Christ for us which were accomplished in history for us. There is nothing clear in the NT about who is going to meet Christ apart from death when He returns or how that all works. Nor is there very much material about it by comparison. Just accept the fact that God will take care of those who are justified, even if they suffer horrible things in this life, and they might.

 

[Nick M]

OK, now we are getting into the area that this was never supposed to go. You guys are doing an alternate theory of justification from sins.

It is not an alternate theory. He went to the cross to pay the price of justice that God demands for sin. And it isn't like lethal injection. It was a torturous, painful, and slow death. After they tortured him by scouring him.

Want to know whose idea it was? Try reading the prophets.

 

[Interplanner]

It is not an alternate theory. He went to the cross to pay the price of justice that God demands for sin. And it isn't like lethal injection. It was a torturous, painful, and slow death. After they tortured him by scouring him.

Want to know whose idea it was? Try reading the prophets.

I'm referring to reducing the whole question of the Christian faith down to 'being ready for the rapture.' That is not the question, and the answer is not 'just wishing you could escape from it all.' Life is going to go on for the fanatical futurist, as Lindsay found out in the 1988 disappointment (1948 + 40). It is fraud to represent the Christian message as that.

The escape mentality gave birth to the idea that there is no hardship to be prepared for, and that God just wants you to have prosperity, and the avoidance of historical study, and many other short cuts to a very diluted Christian message in general.

 

[Nick M]

I'm referring to reducing the whole question of the Christian faith down to 'being ready for the rapture.'

Who? Where?

 

[Interplanner]

Who? Where?

Ever since Lindsay. Within in a few years, many Christians were 'experts' on the rapture and completely unable to explain Romans intelligently. The Romans Road cheatsheets only made it worse. The true teaching of justification is a muscular enterprise that is subversive to modern secular culture.

 

[Danoh]

Ever since Lindsay. Within in a few years, many Christians were 'experts' on the rapture and completely unable to explain Romans intelligently. The Romans Road cheatsheets only made it worse. The true teaching of justification is a muscular enterprise that is subversive to modern secular culture.

Lol - it is ever the same with you supposedly former Dispies - you blame the likes of a sensationalist like a Hal Lindsay for the ptsd you yourselves set your selves up for in your own ignorance, for your worship of such individuals.

Here you are once more; basically asserting Dispensationalism failed you.

Actually asserting you are the issue, while blind to the fact that that is what you are actually asserting.

No wonder your kind think the sole purpose of God's existence is to save mankind.

Your problem is what your problem always was.

You haven't a clue because you never really did learn to work a thing out in Scripture through the Scripture.

Years of over relying on your countless books supposedly based on Scripture; the same type of reasonings of men you then read into the Scriptures; have not only blinded you to any other approach; but blinded you to the fact of your blindness.

Fact is; your approach is no different than that off all those books buyers out there who, believing said books based writers "have an anointing" sit there; their Bibles in one hand, their endless books "about" in their other, reading their endless books "about" INTO the Scriptures.

You worship men in their and your same exact - reasoning ABOUT a thing -tradition.

You remind me of a Geico commercial "if you're a parrot, you repeat things - it's what you do..." :chuckle:

 

[serpentdove]

OK, now we are getting into the area that this was never supposed to go. You guys are doing an alternate theory of justification from sins.

We are justified from our sins by Christ. That is the question. How can a sinful person be acceptable to God? through the sacrifice of Christ...

These greasy gracers

don't discuss: God's holiness, man's need for repentance, surrendering to God's will, etc.

A chicken says to the pig, let's give the master an egg and bacon sandwich this morning. The pig says, "That's easy for you to say. You're just giving him an egg." :shocked: Schwarzentraub.

Ask these

hypergracers

what their

faith has cost them.

Related:

Lordship

 

[Interplanner]

Danoh wrote:
learn to work a thing out in Scripture through the Scripture.


That is precisely why I'm not D'ist. And why you have not worked out Gal 3:17 yet.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Danoh wrote:
learn to work a thing out in Scripture through the Scripture.


That is precisely why I'm not D'ist. And why you have not worked out Gal 3:17 yet.

What's to work out?

The promise to Abraham preceded the Law, and the Law cannot disannul the promise. Simple.

 

[Interplanner]

What's to work out?

The promise to Abraham preceded the Law, and the Law cannot disannul the promise. Simple.

What is to work out:
If it was that simple, why did Paul mention it? Was he saying something about his upraising in Judaism? If so, who did the switching and replacing? Why did they do that at that time (the intertestament and NT background periods) and what were the results?

The whole reason it is a question in Galatians is because Judaism thinks it's 'track' in the law is the shape and reason and arena of God's saving actions.

Paul is saying the mission and Gospel of God to all nations (the Gospel automatically generating a mission to them) is how God was at work before the Law was around. Likewise Rom 4's "It was not through the Law that God promised the world to come to Abraham..."

If those of you in D'ism and MAD are closer to Judaism than to Paul, that's your problem to fix.

The Law-saturated way of handling the Bible made Judaism think that God could not fulfill his Promise without the Law. They still did in Acts 26, 'serving night and day at the temple' to realize a hope that was already fulfilled in Christ. And so Judaism came to a fork in the road where they either joined the Christian/Messianic mission and spread through the whole earth or stayed in Israel in fought for their land, because that was where the temple was located and it was the center of God's work.

 

[Interplanner]

What's to work out?

The promise to Abraham preceded the Law, and the Law cannot disannul the promise. Simple.

What is to work out:
If it was that simple, why did Paul mention it? Was he saying something about his upraising in Judaism? If so, who did the switching and replacing? Why did they do that at that time (the intertestament and NT background periods) and what were the results?

The whole reason it is a question in Galatians is because Judaism thinks it's 'track' in the law is the shape and reason and arena of God's saving actions.

Paul is saying the mission and Gospel of God to all nations (the Gospel automatically generating a mission to them) is how God was at work before the Law was around. Likewise Rom 4's "It was not through the Law that God promised the world to come to Abraham..."

If those of you in D'ism and MAD are closer to Judaism than to Paul, that's your problem to fix.

The Law-saturated way of handling the Bible made Judaism think that God could not fulfill his Promise without the Law. They still did in Acts 26, 'serving night and day at the temple' to realize a hope that was already fulfilled in Christ. The Law-saturation is the veil Paul speaks of in 2 Cor 3-5.

Welcome to NT background 101.

And so Judaism came to a fork in the road where they either joined the Christian/Messianic mission and spread through the whole earth or stayed in Israel in fought for their land, because that was where the temple was located and it was the center of God's work.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

What is to work out:
If it was that simple, why did Paul mention it?

Because someone had bewitched the Galatians.
All of your answers are in scripture.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

If those of you in D'ism and MAD are closer to Judaism than to Paul, that's your problem to fix.

Clueless claim.

 

[Interplanner]

Clueless claim.

There are several writers who say the same thing; that all futurism amounts to is the same eschatology of Judaism, delayed. Actually that is what 2P2P is all about. They think that there is unfinished business that has to be done ('God owes such and such to Israel.').

Many unbelieving Jews think the same way, and it is a matter of fact that the atheists and socialists among them in the mid-20th century simply decided to go make 'Israel' happen entirely on their own and in their total atheistic and socialist mindset. Because 'God' was not going to or had renigged on promises.

Enjoy your company.

Rather than clueless, it is the only way to understand the modern situation.

The "Christian" network Trinity frequently plays the movie EXODUS which is about Jewish terrorists accomplishing that. There is no greater contradiction or misunderstanding in modern times, that I'm aware of. For a more in depth movie about the same thing, see FOR A WOMAN, about post WW2 revenge killers who put together a plan to form modern Israel.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

There are several writers who say the same thing; that all futurism amounts to is the same eschatology of Judaism, delayed. Actually that is what 2P2P is all about. They think that there is unfinished business that has to be done ('God owes such and such to Israel.').

Many unbelieving Jews think the same way, and it is a matter of fact that the atheists and socialists among them in the mid-20th century simply decided to go make 'Israel' happen entirely on their own and in their total atheistic and socialist mindset. Because 'God' was not going to or had renigged on promises.

Enjoy your company.

Rather than clueless, it is the only way to understand the modern situation.

The "Christian" network Trinity frequently plays the movie EXODUS which is about Jewish terrorists accomplishing that. There is no greater contradiction or misunderstanding in modern times, that I'm aware of. For a more in depth movie about the same thing, see FOR A WOMAN, about post WW2 revenge killers who put together a plan to form modern Israel.

:chuckle:

Believe the prophets.

 

[Interplanner]

Because someone had bewitched the Galatians.
All of your answers are in scripture.

that's right: they made God's saving activity base itself on the Law and Israel instead of the Gospel and the mission to the world.

That's not being questioned. What is being questioned is what people think the structure of the Bible has when the Law was temporarily added after the world wide mission promise of the Gospel. Those in Judaism have one shape, those in the Gospel have another.