Personal Freedom vs. Public Welfare

J

jgarden

BANNED
Banned
Idolater said:
In so many very important things, yes we are. Number one...

in GNP /GDP
in lowest cost of food
in civilian owned guns per capita
in longest continuing liberal democracy

That's off the top of my head.
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CORONAVIRUS - September 8, 2020
World27,681,306+200,348900,003+3,44719,733,3037,048,00060,3503,551115.5
1USA6,504,110+18,535193,867+3333,779,7282,530,51514,54119,62858588,532,648267,174331,367,517
2India4,367,436+89,85273,923+1,1073,396,027897,4868,9443,1595350,650,12836,6361,382,530,286
3Brazil4,162,073+14,279127,464+4633,355,564679,0458,31819,55559914,408,11667,694212,842,596
4Russia1,035,789+5,09917,993+122850,049167,7472,3007,09712338,758,184265,565145,946,376
5Peru691,575 29,976 522,251139,3481,48820,9219073,386,625102,45033,056,487
6Colombia671,848 21,615 529,279120,95486313,1784242,964,72258,15050,983,652
7South Africa640,441+1,07915,086+82567,72957,62653910,7732543,821,16264,27959,446,940
8Mexico637,509+3,48667,781+223446,715123,0132,8364,9355251,435,70311,114129,184,522
9Spain534,513+8,96429,594+78N/AN/A1,03411,4316339,987,326213,59546,758,226
10Argentina488,007 10,179+50366,590111,2382,69810,7792251,412,14931,19245,273,109

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/


With 4% of the world's population, this President has firmly established America as Number 1 when it comes to the numbers testing positive for COVID-19 and the related deaths!
 
C

chair

Well-known member
Idolater said:
..
in longest continuing liberal democracy
....
Click to expand...

It depends very much on how you define "longest continuing liberal democracy".
Oldest parliament?- Isle of Man, or the Native American 6 nations.
Longest running universal suffrage- New Zealand
When did Britain become democratic? Well, it depends....
 
Idolater

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
chair said:
It depends very much on how you define "longest continuing liberal democracy".
Oldest parliament?- Isle of Man, or the Native American 6 nations.
Longest running universal suffrage- New Zealand
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Rule of law, constitutionalism, separation of powers, and some legal guarantee of some human rights. Neither legislatures nor universal suffrage require either rule of law or respect for rights.
chair said:
When did Britain become democratic? Well, it depends....
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It didn't become unequivocally liberal until Gladstone (late 1800s).
 
C

chair

Well-known member
Idolater said:
Rule of law, constitutionalism, separation of powers, and some legal guarantee of some human rights. Neither legislatures nor universal suffrage require either rule of law or respect for rights.
It didn't become unequivocally liberal until Gladstone (late 1800s).
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Like I said, it depends on how you define it. If your goal is to make US #1- then define "liberal democracy" accordingly.

But it ain't so simple. For example- slavery was legal in part of the US until the end of the Civil War/ War Between the States. How does that fit in with "human rights"? When did the US become "unequivocally liberal" ? Slavery ended in Britain in 1834.
 
Idolater

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
chair said:
Like I said, it depends on how you define it. If your goal is to make US #1- then define "liberal democracy" accordingly.

But it ain't so simple. For example- slavery was legal in part of the US until the end of the Civil War/ War Between the States. How does that fit in with "human rights"? When did the US become "unequivocally liberal" ? Slavery ended in Britain in 1834.
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So you want to make it a race between England and the US? At least we're narrowing down the field of potentials. It's true that England was the intellectual "nursery" of liberal democracy, not just with some of the ideas originating with Hobbes and especially Locke but perhaps even more so with English common law judges, who could arguably be the first to recognize basic human rights in their jurisprudential rulings, going back to like the 13th or 14th century.

But I don't think that it's controversial to say that the hallmarks of liberal democracy are the separation of powers, the rule of law, the guarantee of at least some inalienable rights, and a constitution, and England couldn't be unequivocally said to have instituted the rule of law or constitutionalism until Gladstone. Obviously even calling it constitutional while accepted isn't unequivocal itself since England has no formal constitution even to this day.
 
C

chair

Well-known member
Idolater said:
So you want to make it a race between England and the US? At least we're narrowing down the field of potentials. It's true that England was the intellectual "nursery" of liberal democracy, not just with some of the ideas originating with Hobbes and especially Locke but perhaps even more so with English common law judges, who could arguably be the first to recognize basic human rights in their jurisprudential rulings, going back to like the 13th or 14th century.

But I don't think that it's controversial to say that the hallmarks of liberal democracy are the separation of powers, the rule of law, the guarantee of at least some inalienable rights, and a constitution, and England couldn't be unequivocally said to have instituted the rule of law or constitutionalism until Gladstone. Obviously even calling it constitutional while accepted isn't unequivocal itself since England has no formal constitution even to this day.
Click to expand...

Nope, I'm not interested in any race. Somebody else was gloating how the US is #1 in this and that, and I was just pointing out that things aren't so simple.

My concern about the US is the future- not the past.
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
chair said:
Nope, I'm not interested in any race. Somebody else was gloating how the US is #1 in this and that, and I was just pointing out that things aren't so simple.

My concern about the US is the future- not the past.
Click to expand...

In the future, President Trump's second term will ensure that America remains number 1
:)

As will his third and fourth term :)
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
ok doser said:
In the future, President Trump's second term will ensure that America remains number 1
:)

As will his third and fourth term :)
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"Third and fourth term"?

Even if that could happen, it would only ensure America as the number 1 laughing stock...

:freak:
 
J

jgarden

BANNED
Banned
Jefferson said:
For the Democrats, the line won't get drawn until after the election. They need people wearing masks as walking billboards advertising that everyone needs to live in fear and paranoia over this "pandemic."

This fear will give the Democrats their excuse to demand mail-in voting which is a very easy way for them to cheat. They'll claim people could catch the virus in the voting booths.

They promote this virus like it's the second coming of the bubonic plague.
Click to expand...
Wear a mask: You could help save 66,000 lives in the US ...
www.livescience.com › wearing-masks-save-tens-thous...
Aug 7, 2020 - Wearing face masks could save another 66,000 Americans from ... As the U.S. continues to battle the first pandemic wave, many stores and ...

If every American started wearing a face mask today, this is ...
www.marketwatch.com › story › if-you-started-wearing-a...
Aug 10, 2020 - If every American started wearing a face mask today, this is how many lives could be saved · America's COVID-19 death toll in the U.S. could ....

.Masks could save the lives of 66,000 Americans by Dec. 1—if ...
medicalxpress.com › news › 2020-08-masks-americans...
Aug 10, 2020 - But nearly 66,000 of these deaths—about one in four—could have been prevented if all Americans would wear a mask in public, according to the ...

66,000 lives could be saved if more people wear masks in US ...
www.thenewstribune.com › news › article244782007
Aug 6, 2020 - ... reach nearly 300000 by December. However, if 95% of Americans wear a mask outside their homes, nearly 66000 people could be saved.

New IHME COVID-19 Forecasts See Nearly 300,000 Deaths ...
www.healthdata.org › news-release › new-ihme-covid-...
August 6, 2020. However, Consistent Mask-Wearing Could Save about 70,000 Lives ... And more than 66,000 lives would be saved. Masks and other protective ...

Masks could save the lives of 66,000 Americans by Dec. 1 - if ...
www.inquirer.com › health › coronavirus › mask-mand...
Aug 7, 2020 - But nearly 66,000 of these deaths — about one in four — could have been prevented if all Americans would wear a mask in public, according to ...

Save lives - wear a mask - Urbana Daily Citizen
www.urbanacitizen.com › opinion › columns › save-liv...
Aug 14, 2020 - That translates into 66,000 lives saved. We're starting to learn just how effective face masks can be, as this example shows: In Missouri, two ...

Wear a mask: You could help save 66000 lives ... - News Break
www.newsbreak.com › news › wear-a-mask-you-could...
The coronavirus pandemic has now claimed more than 715800 lives worldwide, including more than 160000 in the U.S. alone. Wearing face masks could save ...

Model Shows 300,000 American Deaths by December if More ...
www.usnews.com › News › Health News
Aug 7, 2020 - However, if 95 percent of people were to wear a face mask in public, some 66,000 lives could be saved, they added. "We're seeing a ...

New IHME COVID-19 Forecasts See Nearly 300,000 Deaths ...
www.prnewswire.com › news-releases › new-ihme-covi...
Aug 6, 2020 - And more than 66,000 lives would be saved. ... "It appears that people are wearing masks and socially distancing more frequently as infections ...

CDC: Masks With Valves or Vents Not Effective - AARP
www.aarp.org › health › cdc-says-avoid-valved-masks
Aug 14, 2020 - ... U.S. start wearing a face mask when leaving their homes, that number would drop significantly and more than 66,000 lives would be saved, ..

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Apparently the lives of 66,000 Americans are considered expendable by this President and his supporters - those volunteering to join this select group of potential victims resulting from those choosing not to wear masks should line up to the right!
 
Last edited:
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
jgarden said:
Wear a mask: You could help save 66,000 lives in the US ...
www.livescience.com › wearing-masks-save-tens-thous...
Aug 7, 2020 - Wearing face masks could save another 66,000 Americans from ... As the U.S. continues to battle the first pandemic wave, many stores and ...

If every American started wearing a face mask today, this is ...
www.marketwatch.com › story › if-you-started-wearing-a...
Aug 10, 2020 - If every American started wearing a face mask today, this is how many lives could be saved · America's COVID-19 death toll in the U.S. could ...

Masks Save Lives - COVID-19
www.maskssavelives.org
Universal mask-wearing is the most overlooked COVID-19 lifesaver ... @CDCgov's recommendation on wearing a cloth face covering may help protect the most ...

66,000 lives could be saved if more people wear masks in US ...
www.thenewstribune.com › news › article244782007
Nearly 66,000 lives may be saved if most in US wear masks, COVID-19 model predicts. By Brooke Wolford. August 06, 2020 04:04 PM , Updated August 06, ...
************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **************************************

Apparently the lives of 66,000 Americans are considered expendable by this President and his supporters - those volunteering to join this select group pf victims resulting from those choosing not to wear masks should line up to the right!
Click to expand...

tell ya what, you wear two masks, that way you'll be making up for me :)
 
J

jgarden

BANNED
Banned
quip said:
Well, no. It wouldn't.
That was witty though! :plain:

BTW: What does "ensuring hat America remain number 1" mean to you?
Click to expand...
I don't see him volunteering himself of his family members to be part of the 66,000 that will die as a result of the callous attitudes of some of their fellow Americans and their refusal to wear masks - apparently they feel no remorse when it comes to condemning some other unsuspecting victims who will pay that price, through no fault of their own!
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
chair

ok doser said:
Shaniqua has a different hobby.

She likes to get pregnant from men who are not her husband and have black children without fathers.

Statistics show that her children are more apt to be involved in crime and violent antisocial behaviors than others.

Should the government regulate Shaniqua's childbearing?

Should the government regulate all childbearing of black Americans?
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One of the reasons I raised this question is that, in the past, Shaniqua's behavior would have been regulated - by her family, by her church, by her community, and indirectly by a government that did not make it easy for her to have children without a father in the house.
 
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