OSAS

[freelight]

Think for yourself......

Think for yourself......

Why should we when you can't prove what you say

I'd be more careful to consider what was proposed, and if you can prove my proposition is false, then lay forth the evidence to prove it wrong. Use your own latent powers of intelligence and question all assumptions.

You don't know anything beyond your own 'being' or 'consciousness'. - all 'thinking' arising within your 'Self' is just so much relative, abstract, projections of information/relays of perception variously assumed; attempts of 'relating'. That's it.

 

[freelight]

Peter, James and John are the 'pillars'.......

Peter, James and John are the 'pillars'.......

Because more was revealed to Paul than to Peter. Paul wrote 70% of the New Testament

I'd question that assumption.

Out of the 13 letters ascribed to Paul, only 7 are generally assumed to be 'authentic' (actually written by Paul), while a few others are debatable and the rest are pretty well deemed to be pseudographical.

> Authorship of the Pauline Epistles

> The Epistles of Paul

You may also note that Peter was the one originally meant to proclaim the gospel to the Gentiles, giving the first sermon converting gentiles, while Paul only later came along, only a few times in the company of the pillars in Jerusalem (he had a hard time there dodging stones and being chased out of town by the Jews on at least a few occasions), claiming a following and good success with preaching, but he 'tailored' his gospel more and more differently from the original apostles in Jerusalem, preaching against the law of Moses and certain Jewish customs gaining a greater audience-acceptance among gentiles with "his" gospel, since many Jews would not accept 'antinomian' approach.

 

[musterion]

"It is because our life is hid with Christ in God that it is beyond the reach of Satan.

The Enemy cannot touch our life in its source, for the Father is its Source and he cannot touch Him.

He cannot touch our life in its channel, for the risen Lord Jesus is its channel, and he cannot touch Him.

He cannot touch our life in its power, for the Holy Spirit is its power, and he cannot touch the Spirit.

He cannot touch our life in its duration, for eternity is its duration, and he cannot touch eternity.

The child of God is eternally safe." - J.E.Conant

 

[freelight]

the SON of 'God'..........

the SON of 'God'..........

Why not preach what the Bible says in John.?

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Why not preach what the Father told Peter--

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Why not preach Peters message--

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

You think like most that you understand what Jesus was saying when He said He was the I Am, but you do not.

LA

Indeed,...all that is essential to the writer of John (at least the end portion) was that the reader believer Jesus is the SON of God, while one is free to 'interpret' other parts of that book as he pleases. We are all sons of God, so the argument is just a tussle in Christology, what one chooses to believe via personal preference (slice and dice the nature {or is that 2 natures, 2 wills? } of Jesus, however you wish) - the debates thru-out the centuries covered about every 'nuance' you can think of, but we more creative theologians could probably add some more to it. Come on folks, use your 'creative imagination'.

Correct on John 8:58 as Chandler and have in older threads explained that verse (our 2 threads on this particular verse are no longer extant), - there is no justification for translating that passage in capitol letters as "I AM" (referring to Ex. 3:14 in order to 'deify' Jesus), for a tenable translation of 'ego eimi' in that instance (IMO) is "I have been in existence', referring to his pre-existence in the Mind of God before creation, as well as it meaning he was the 'Messiah' that Abraham saw by faith (as the promised one), and looked forward to seeing his day. Jesus was not saying "ehyeh asher ehyeh" (I Am/I Will Be), since the greek words there do not equate or correlate to the Hebrew in Ex. 3:14. - debate continues over grammatical issues of the term "ego eimi" used in a particular context.

See: The truth of John 8:58

No matter what Trinitarian or Unitarian spin you put on it, or something inbetween or beyond,....Jesus forever maintains his relational position as the 'Son'. As long as you by the Spirit recognize, accept and appreciate that Jesus is the 'Son' of God, you have by that 'door' of insight, a knowledge or revelation of eternal life. Seeing that Jesus is generated from 'God', of 'God', revealing 'God'...is all that is essential in the context of the gospels, AND likewise in that 'wake' is the revelation of your own sonship with God, revealing 'God' as your Heavenly Father. The issue of 'sonship' is the primary revelation extending to the sons of men, that they are children of God, Jesus being the Firstborn prototype of a perfect 'Son', the 'head' of a new community, a new humanity indwelt by God (the divine image and likeness being perfected in Man).

 

[Bright Raven]

For those who do not believe in eternal security, how do you become unsealed by the Spirit?

 

[Angel4Truth]

For those who do not believe in eternal security, how do you become unsealed by the Spirit?

Excellent question that ive never seen one, who believes it can be broken, answer.

 

[Bright Raven]

Taken from Joseph Prince devotion.

Once you are saved, you are saved forever. The righteousness that you have in Christ is an everlasting one—you cannot become unrighteous again. Once you are born again as a child of God, it is impossible for you to become “unborn.” Once you are a saint washed by the blood of Jesus, in God’s eyes, you cannot revert to your old, unsaved sinner state. Even if you fall into sin, you are still the righteousness of God in Christ because your justification is not by works, but by faith in Jesus Christ

 

[turbosixx]

Even if you fall into sin, you are still the righteousness of God in Christ because your justification is not by works, but by faith in Jesus Christ

If being a Christian and not sin is what determines salvation, why would Paul give a list of sinners, to Christians, who will not inherit the kingdom of God?

I Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

What are these sinners being judged on?

 

[Bright Raven]

If being a Christian and not sin is what determines salvation, why would Paul give a list of sinners, to Christians, who will not inherit the kingdom of God?

I Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

What are these sinners being judged on?

Were these ever saved in the first place?

 

[turbosixx]

Were these ever saved in the first place?

That is for God to decide. When it comes down to who will not be saved, what I see in scripture is behavior not what one believes. For example, what is Jesus using for a measuring stick? Belief or actions?

Matt. 7: 21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'

 

[Bright Raven]

That is for God to decide. When it comes down to who will not be saved, what I see in scripture is behavior not what one believes. For example, what is Jesus using for a measuring stick? Belief or actions?

Matt. 7: 21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'

If they were not saved it does not apply.

 

[disturbo]

Taken from Joseph Prince devotion.

Once you are saved, you are saved forever. The righteousness that you have in Christ is an everlasting one—you cannot become unrighteous again. Once you are born again as a child of God, it is impossible for you to become “unborn.” Once you are a saint washed by the blood of Jesus, in God’s eyes, you cannot revert to your old, unsaved sinner state. Even if you fall into sin, you are still the righteousness of God in Christ because your justification is not by works, but by faith in Jesus Christ

Is that why the dog returns to his own vomit?

 

[patrick jane]

Is that why the dog returns to his own vomit?

Sometimes they don't leave, so there's nothing to return to. They just lap it right up.

 

[patrick jane]

I don't hear anybody running around saying they have been saved 5 times, or more than once. :rapture:

 

[turbosixx]

If they were not saved it does not apply.

I fail to see why it doesn’t apply, please explain.

If I understand the OSAS camp, the criteria for salvation is one a believer. Yes, only Christians will be saved, but looking at this verse and others it comes down how do we live our life as a follower of Christ. Do we subject ourselves to his authority and commands or do we live as we choose.

It’s clear they were not saved in the end. What is Jesus’ charge against them? You didn’t believe in me or you’re not a believer? No, he tells us the reason they did not enter in, “you who practice lawlessness.'”

Looking at the previous verse we see some who were saved and what is the reason given that they entered in? but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

This is in agreement with this passage in John that tells us how we can know we are in him.
1 Jn. 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

 

[turbosixx]

I don't hear anybody running around saying they have been saved 5 times, or more than once. :rapture:

It doesn't matter what people say, what matters is what the bible says.

James 5:19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

 

[oatmeal]

Your interpretation is out of context because Jesus says "if you love Me, keep my commands".

There are tons and tons of Jesus word to be faithful to Him until the end.

If we don't love Him by respecting His word and obey them until the end, we will not be saved, period.

So it is not OSAS.

Jesus is the Lord, not your man-made doctrines.

Do you have to love before you get saved?

Or is the reason you choose to love is because you were saved?

I John 4:7,10

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

We were not saved and given the gift of eternal, eternal, eternal life because we loved God but because God loved us.

We simply chose to receive His gift of salvation/eternal life.

Those of us who have received the gift of eternal life are supposed to know that have it, that we might move onto greater things by living accordingly.

I John 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Galatians 4:6

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

If we do not know who our Daddy is.... how can our hearts cry to Him, saying Abba, Father

 

[disturbo]

Sometimes they don't leave, so there's nothing to return to. They just lap it right up.

That's probably the likely case. In other words. They were not saved in the first place.

 

[turbosixx]

Sometimes they don't leave, so there's nothing to return to. They just lap it right up.

That's probably the likely case. In other words. They were not saved in the first place.

With all due respect, this is reading into and/or ignoring the scripture. The passage clearly says "A dog returns to its own vomit,"

and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

 

[disturbo]

With all due respect, this is reading into and/or ignoring the scripture. The passage clearly says "A dog returns to its own vomit,"

and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

If a person claims to have a salvation episode, and nothing much ever changes, or even if that person sincerely accepts Christ, and then goes back into the very same things he 'came out of', then the likelyhood is that first 'conversion' was just a flash in the pan...just like Jesus says here...

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.