"OSAS" people are not answering this question.

[turbosixx]

Outside the faith. I knew you would step in when you can't help yourself. As for the comment itself, how does one unseal the Holy Spirit? Lay it out for us.

Willfully sinning.

Heb. 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Outside the faith. I knew you would step in when you can't help yourself. As for the comment itself, how does one unseal the Holy Spirit? Lay it out for us.

"For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life." Galatians 6:8
Paul explains it.

 

[Right Divider]

So Paul's point in mentioning the cloud and the sea, twice, was to point out they didn't get wet? Really?

Did I say that was his point? Classic deceptive tactics on your part. Don't try to put words in other people's mouths. That's a form of lying.

It says one baptism, how do you know this is Spirit baptism?

Do you assume that the ONE baptism is ONLY WATER BAPTISM?

That makes NO sense at all. Paul explains that our unity comes for our common ONE SPIRIT baptism.

1Co 12:12-13 KJV For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. (13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
​

It just could not be more clear than this.

Is this Paul water baptizing or is the Spirit baptizing here? What do you default to if it doesn't say specifically?

Acts 18:8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

It is irrelevant.

Agreed.

Good, now you're getting somewhere.

Why do you think the plan is just for Israel? The gospel is for all.

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

You confuse SO many things that it's practically impossible to communication with you.

You CANNOT separate Mark 16:15-16 from Mark 16:17-18 (though so many do).

Mar 16:15-20 KJV And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (19) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. (20) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
​

You are NOT part of this group, no matter how much you long to be.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

When I quote Jesus' teachings and am told "that was for the Jews" (i.e., it's the "Jewish Gospel") what am I to conclude except that MAD holds that the Four Gospels (and all non-Pauline writings) are not for "doctrine" and "instruction in righteousness." This makes them irrelevant and obsolete. Very often we are told that they actually run contrary to the Pauline "Gospel of Grace."

I agree that what I said is not how a diplomatic proponent of MAD would describe their view but I do believe what I said is the bottom line. Non-Pauline writings are "for another people in another time in another dispensation." The Word is thus sliced and diced causing dispensations to multiply like rabbits until you cannot read and accept the words without layers of analysis.

This shows how out-of-tune MAD is from Historic Christianity which ALWAYS considered ALL the NT writings equally inspired and authoritative. For me to express MAD's doctrines in an extreme way is simply for me to describe MAD for the extreme view that it is.

If I have Inadvertently misrepresented MAD's view (which is really a conglomerate of different views) then I am sure you, or someone from that camp can correct what I have said. Before I accept that my remarks are inaccurate you will have to show me in what way they are. A simple denial is not enough.

Well said.

LA

 

[glorydaz]

Could you please show me the passages you are basing this on. If you could, use ones you know without a doubt are talking about HS baptism. There are a lot of verses that mention baptism and without any further evidence it's automaticly assumed to be HS baptism. If there is one baptism then that would be a safe assumption, but does the bible talk about more than one baptism. Which one is this?

Acts 18:8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.

Right Divider gave you one.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

Here's another....baptized INTO Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:3-4
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.​

Here we see there is a different baptism than with water.

Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.​

Here's another one, and our Lord sure isn't talking about water baptism here...or baptism by the Spirit, either.

Matt. 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Matt. 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.​

 

[turbosixx]

Did I say that was his point? Classic deceptive tactics on your part. Don't try to put words in other people's mouths. That's a form of lying.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth.

Do you assume that the ONE baptism is ONLY WATER BAPTISM?

You use the verse that says there is one baptism. If there is only one baptism, time and time again when a verse says "were baptized" or "by baptism" shoudn't it be the one baptism you claim? But that is not the case is it?

That makes NO sense at all. Paul explains that our unity comes for our common ONE SPIRIT baptism.

1Co 12:12-13 KJV For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. (13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
​

It just could not be more clear than this.

I agree it's the Spirit that adds us and in Christ we have unity. Think about it this way. In 2 Kings 5, Naaman had his leprosy cleansed. In order to have it cleansed he had to dip in water. Did the water cleanse his leprosy, no it was God's Spirit. Same thing when we are made disciples as Jesus instructed in Matt. 28. When we are water baptized the Spirit adds us.

It is irrelevant.

It's only irrelevant because it doesn't help your position. If there is only one baptism, shouldn't this be HS? Acts 18:8

You confuse SO many things that it's practically impossible to communication with you.

If I'm adding or ignoring scripture, please point it out.

You CANNOT separate Mark 16:15-16 from Mark 16:17-18 (though so many do).

Mar 16:15-20 KJV And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (19) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. (20) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.​

What was the purpose of the miracles? V. 20, confirming the word. It's been confirmed and written for our instruction.

​

You are NOT part of this group, no matter how much you long to be.

If you are talking the BOC, not your call to make.

 

[turbosixx]

Right Divider gave you one.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

Here's another....baptized INTO Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:3-4
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.​

Here we see there is a different baptism than with water.

Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.​

Here's another one, and our Lord sure isn't talking about water baptism here...or baptism by the Spirit, either.

Matt. 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Matt. 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.​

Is this water or HS baptism?

Acts 18:8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

 

[glorydaz]

"For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life." Galatians 6:8
Paul explains it.

It's impossible to sow to the flesh if you aren't in the flesh. We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit of God is in us. That's a fact....whether you reckon it to be so or not.

It's why there is no condemnation for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS. Being crucified with Christ means we are dead....and our life is hid with Christ in God. These are facts that no one will accept with their natural understanding. But they are facts, nonetheless.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.​

Are we walking by faith or sight?

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.​

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Nor has it happened yet. And the reason it hasn't is not because He lied, was wrong or was mistaken. It is because Israel, nationally, refused several opportunities to repent and bow before her Messiah, at which point she would have become the priest-nation she was intended to be, led by the Twelve to THEN take that gospel to all nations.

Keep missing that key point and you'll keep missing everything else.

Israel accepted the Messiah.

If you are looking for the acceptance of the Messiah by the rulers of this age then you do err.

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, remember?

The New Covenant priest nation of Israel did go to all of the nations--

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


Act 5:11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.
Act 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
Act 5:13 And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them.
Act 5:14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
Act 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Act 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

It's impossible to sow to the flesh if you aren't in the flesh. We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit of God is in us. That's a fact....whether you reckon it to be so or not.

It's why there is no condemnation for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS. Being crucified with Christ means we are dead....and our life is hid with Christ in God. These are facts that no one will accept with their natural understanding. But they are facts, nonetheless.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.​

Are we walking by faith or sight?

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.​

Next time you sin you need to ask, how come?

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;


LA

 

[Right Divider]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth.

It sure looked that way.

You use the verse that says there is one baptism. If there is only one baptism, time and time again when a verse says "were baptized" or "by baptism" shoudn't it be the one baptism you claim? But that is not the case is it?

You just cherry-pick verses without any regard to the context of the writing or the order of time. This is your problem.

I agree it's the Spirit that adds us and in Christ we have unity. Think about it this way. In 2 Kings 5, Naaman had his leprosy cleansed. In order to have it cleansed he had to dip in water. Did the water cleanse his leprosy, no it was God's Spirit. Same thing when we are made disciples as Jesus instructed in Matt. 28. When we are water baptized the Spirit adds us.

Once again, you're stuck in the past.

It's only irrelevant because it doesn't help your position. If there is only one baptism, shouldn't this be HS? Acts 18:8

It sounds like YOU think that Paul was wrong about the ONE baptism. Don't forget that Ephesian was written AFTER Acts 18.

If I'm adding or ignoring scripture, please point it out.

I am.

What was the purpose of the miracles? V. 20, confirming the word. It's been confirmed and written for our instruction.

Instruction and execution are two different things. Otherwise, you'd be clearing out hospitals all of the world.

If you are talking the BOC, not your call to make.

That group was not in the body of Christ.

They were a nation of priests, just like Peter quoted from Exodus.

 

[glorydaz]

Is this water or HS baptism?

Acts 18:8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

They were "being baptized"....I would say that is speaking of water baptism. Many were water baptized....they still are, but that is not the same as being baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ. As we see here...water was not to be forbidden to even the gentiles. We see also, "in the name of the Lord"...not by the Spirit into the body. That baptism is never performed by men.

Acts 10:45-48 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.​

 

[turbosixx]

It sounds like YOU think that Paul was wrong about the ONE baptism. Don't forget that Ephesian was written AFTER Acts 18.

There is one baptism and it's water. If there is ONLY one, why do we see water baptism everywhere? The Spirit that adds us at water baptism is listed in the previous verse.

4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

These people were told to be baptized and then they would receive the Holy Spirit. Then it says those who were baptized were added and then it says the Lord did the adding. By one Spirit when they were baptized they were added.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.


The only time concern is before and after the cross. Jesus sent out the 12 to save everyone. 3,000 were saved on Pentecost.

 

[glorydaz]

Next time you sin you need to ask, how come?

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;


LA

There is no "next time you sin"......I am not under the law.

I know you people who are obsessed with sin don't understand that. What exactly do you think our Lord accomplished on the cross, anyway?????

Mortify (ye through the Spirit). Romans 8:13KJV That is the work of the Spirit in me. That is our being conformed into the image of the Son. We are His workmanship created IN CHRIST JESUS.....I won't take credit for what the Spirit of God is doing in me.

 

[glorydaz]

There is one baptism and it's water. If there is ONLY one, why do we see water baptism everywhere? The Spirit that adds us at water baptism is listed in the previous verse.

4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

These people were told to be baptized and then they would receive the Holy Spirit. Then it says those who were baptized were added and then it says the Lord did the adding. By one Spirit when they were baptized they were added.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.


The only time concern is before and after the cross. Jesus sent out the 12 to save everyone. 3,000 were saved on Pentecost.

Cool. So you think when Jimmy Swaggart baptizes someone they are indwelt by the Spirit of God....baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ? God is simply at man's beck and call, isn't He? :think:

 

[turbosixx]

They were "being baptized"....I would say that is speaking of water baptism. Many were water baptized....they still are, but that is not the same as being baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ. As we see here...water was not to be forbidden to even the gentiles. We see also, "in the name of the Lord"...not by the Spirit into the body. That baptism is never performed by men.

Acts 10:45-48 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.​

Do you see my point. If there is ONLY ONE baptism why do we see two? I would suggest that HS baptism is being falsely applied when it just says baptism because of the ONE baptism verse.

Search baptism and see which ones actually say HS. After the cross, HS baptism only happed twice and they were both special situations.

 

[glorydaz]

Do you see my point. If there is ONLY ONE baptism why do we see two? I would suggest that HS baptism is being falsely applied when it just says baptism because of the ONE baptism verse.

Search baptism and see which ones actually say HS. After the cross, HS baptism only happed twice and they were both special situations.

No, you're wrong, and actually we see more than two, but there is only one that places us in the body of Christ. That is by the Holy Spirit when we believe Paul's Gospel. Think about it. Anyone can be dunked under water....even an atheist. Does that mean the guy is saved....indwelt by the Spirit? Of course not. The Comforter didn't even come until Jesus had risen from the dead. The Holy Spirit came upon people, even in the OT, but it was only when Jesus returned to heaven that the Spirit came to dwell in all who believe in their hearts (dbr). Not all who get dunked under water. God sees into the heart and it's HIM, His Spirit that comes to dwell in those who believe in their heart. No man can dunk someone and have God jump in there at man's beck and call. NO WAY. Surely you know this? :idunno:

 

[turbosixx]

Cool. So you think when Jimmy Swaggart baptizes someone they are indwelt by the Spirit of God....baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ? God is simply at man's beck and call, isn't He? :think:

Not at all. God doses the adding and he knows who are his and who is not. I only know what I read. Jesus said make disciples by baptizing them in his name and that is what I believe.

 

[glorydaz]

Not at all. God doses the adding and he knows who are his and who is not. I only know what I read. Jesus said make disciples by baptizing them in his name and that is what I believe.

Fine

 

[turbosixx]

No, you're wrong, and actually we see more than two, but there is only one that places us in the body of Christ.

Please show me where the BIBLE says baptized with the HS other than the two special situations where the bible says in black and white "baptized with the Holy Spirit."