"OSAS" people are not answering this question.

elohiym

Well-known member
My only thing is if someone doesn't believe in Jesus redemption they are not saved.

Consider the scripture that states: "Whoever loves knows God." Also consider that people were saved before Jesus was conceived in the womb of Mary, e.g. Enoch walked with God.

If you believe in Jesus now, but are later convinced by some means that it's not true, then that person is not saved. It's those who continue in the faith. When I am saying these things I am thinking of the parable of the sower.

Consider the idea of eternal security, but not the false OSAS many here preach, can be found in that parable.

23 "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

That one doesn't stumble and is eternally secure. Why? See 1Jn 2:10.

Another thing that would bother me is the Hebrews passage talking about those who are in the faith, throw away their faith and the Apostle telling us that it's impossible to return because it would make a mockery of Jesus or something.

I believe the verses you are thinking of are Hebrews 10:26-29. Yes, good point.

The mere fact that someone has to 'return' to something shows that they were apart of it in the first place.

Another good point.

I am well aware of verses showing us a guarantee of salvation for belief- though that's just it. If you believe you are saved. What does it say if you don't believe?

Paul phrased it nicely in Romans 11:22. They will be cut off.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
thats kind of surprising that you didnot repent any of your sins. because all the following verses say repent and be baptized not believe and be baptized.
acts 2:38 Act_3:19, ...
To whom is Acts 2 addressed?
What were those of Acts 2 to repent of?
When will the sins of those in Acts 3 be blotted out? Why would you think that is the Body of Christ?
 

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
You claim Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are written TO you and don't keep the law. Why not?

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

"Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love fulfills the law." Romans 13:10

Do I love my neighbor? God is the judge of that. I don't think I do perfectly, so I forget what is behind and press on. (Phiilipians 3)
 

Shasta

Well-known member
Once a person has received salvation they can't loose it.

John 10:27-29New King James Version (NKJV)

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Baptists believe that a person must choose to believe in Christ in order to enter into a saving relationship with Him. Thereafter that status cannot be changed; not even if the person subsequently rejects the faith or falls back into a (continual) lifestyle of sin. Thus, person can choose Christ UP UNTIL THE POINT of salvation. The same option (apostasizing) is not available thereafter. Reformed Theology is more consistent in that it denies the freedom of human will both before, during and after the point where a person comes into right relationship with God. The doctrine of OSAS is the last remaining petal of Calvinism most types of Baptist still hold to. I will note in passing that this was NOT the view of the original Anabaptists who were persecuted by the Calvinists who were then in power.

OSAS holds "eternal life" to be a static state either for legal or ontological reasons. I believe the the scripture teaches that salvation is a dynamic, ongoing,relationship of faith, faith meaning actively putting our trust in, confidence of reliance upon Christ and the truth of the Gospel.

In the verse you have cited here, the Apostle John uses present tense verbs which in Greek carries the sense of ongoing, continual activity.

[QUOTE]The durative (linear or progressive) in the present stem: the action is represented as durative (in progress) and either as timeless (ἔστιν ὁ θεός) or as taking place in present time
http://www.ntgreek.net/present.htm[/QUOTE]

Here I have added some words to emphasize this idea.

My sheep are hearing My voice, and I am knowing them, and they are following Me. 28 And I am give (am giving) them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. (John 10:27-29)

1. The first thing Jesus says is that out of all those who were listening to His teaching certain ones were hearing (with understanding) and responding. Jesus said he was knowing them. There are several words for "know" in Greek. The one He uses here is ginosko which means to know by personal aquaintance or experience. Jesus was recognizing His sheep by their response to what He was saying.

2. The next thing Jesus said was that He was in the process of givinging eternal life to them.

3. They are follow (ing) me

4. The word following means

to join one as a disciple, become or be his disciple
from the way disciples of that time "followed" their masters (physically)
http://biblehub.com/greek/190.htm

In other words His sheep did not merely believe in Jesus they were following him as disciples, that is, they were obedient to His word.

5. The promise of eternal life, made to THESE followers was that they would never perish (in hell) This verse is a promise to someone who had been (1) drawn to Jesus, (2) who have responded to the preaching of the Gospel and (3) are following Him. This verse is not addressing the case of a lapsed or apostate believer.

To assume that a person solely on the basis of their initial response to the Gospel irrevocably unconditionally possesses eternal life is a presupposition read into the text. In fact the verse does not deal with the case of apostates or lapsed believers.

4. Although this issue is not addressed explicitly, it is implicitly.

neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

The word "snatch" is harpazei according to Thayer's Lexicon means to seize, carry off by force

This would be exemplified by a kidnapper, snatching a child out of his bed, restraining him and forcibly carrying him out of his parent's house. This cannot happen to believer who is following Christ but this example does not address the case of a child who runs away from home out of rebellion. When people depart from Christ it does not happen because they are overpowered and forced to do it but because they choose to do so. Once we enter the Father's house it is love and the inner working of the Spirit that keeps us there. The door is not bolted and locked. We choose to abide there because we need Him and love Him (John 6:68).
 

Right Divider

Body part
<cut>
OSAS holds "eternal life" to be a static state either for legal or ontological reasons. I believe the the scripture teaches that salvation is a dynamic, ongoing,relationship of faith, faith meaning actively putting our trust in, confidence of reliance upon Christ and the truth of the Gospel.
Eternal means FOREVER and EVER.

You seem to be the naive one.
Joh 5:24 KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
I guess that, according you, someone can continually PASS from DEATH UNTO LIFE and back UNTO DEATH ..... again and again and again......
 

Dan Emanuel

Active member

musterion

Well-known member
Didn't say it was.
And?
Maybe I misunderstood when you said:
Did you mean, in Revelation, it hasn't existed yet? Or are you saying that it has never existed?


DJ
1.0

No archaeological or scriptural evidence it existed at or before the time of John's vision.
 

Drew24

New member
@Shasta maybe I am misunderstanding you, but are you saying OSAS is a part of the Calvinistic Doctrine? I mean I can agree with you to a certain extent, but my understaning is that Calvinists believe that when you are saved you are saved , HOWEVER it differs from at least the Baptist Church I grew up in in that if you rebel against God you were likely never to have been saved in the first place. Can you expound upon that more? I just got saved a year ago, after 19 years of believing I was saved with no changes in my life. So I am new To studying the Bible and theology. Humbly I must say that from my understanding of OSAS is that once you are saved you never lose your salvation wether you live the rest of your life in sin or not. which from the Calvinistic point that once you are saved God begins to consecrate or sanctify you to him. So if you sin, the Holy Spirit convicts you to repentance. Therefore, in order sin and continue to live in sin with no repentance or conviction you were never saved to begin with.
 
Top