Well, you should go read some of his posts. That would give you more information than I could.
Open Theism Stirs Controversy on College Campuses
- Thread starter Christine
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There will always be reality.
Reality inhabits no space, it is an idea
Reality cannot be measured, it is an idea, so it has not quantity or magnitude.
What is meant by "reality subject to external determination"?
So everything exists within Him and at the same time God is separate from everything (including reality). Like God is a box and a ball is reality (and everything else) in the box.
That is understandable, but your comment that finite reality is contained within Him may not prove out. I'm not so sure we can say reality is finite or that God is not real (or that God is perhaps real and non-real at the same time).
So, you are saying that for God to choose to not be somewhere would be the same as making a rock so big that He cannot lift it. That can only be the case if you have one of the many understandings about the nature of God (and, of course, only one of them is right). Why do you find it logically necessary to have the understanding that you do?
Of course no other being compares to God. But it doesn't logically follow then that God cannot place limits on Himself.
I know that there are more irrational numbers than rational numbers. So I got in touch with a university mathematician to ask them about "infinite". As it turns out, there is more then one kind of infinite. Rational numbers - what one could easily assume I was talking about… even whole numbers if you like – are infinite. So is there a reason for your caustic reply and rude dismissal? Or are you assuming something and not telling us?
[edit]
As it turns out, there is more then one kind of infinite, rational numbers - what one could easily assume I was talking about… even whole numbers if you like – are infinite.
-corrected punctuation to-
As it turns out, there is more then one kind of infinite. Rational numbers - what one could easily assume I was talking about… even whole numbers if you like – are infinite.
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Then why do you try to understand it according to mathematical constructs?
If something is infinite, it is not subject to external determination. There is nothing "external" to the infinite.
Hilston wrote:
Holy means "separated." God is separate from everything and is uniquely holy because nothing except God is perfect, all-just, all-wise, all-knowing, all-sustaining, etc. But also, since God is infinite, all of finite reality is contained within Him.
It is not limited to physical proximity. All ideas, all abstract laws, etc. are contained within (or bound by) God Himself.
Then your God isn't infinite.
You're overthinking this. God is uncreated reality. The universe is created reality.
Yes.
Because I believe God is infinite. If He is infinite, then He cannot choose to not be somewhere.
Can God choose to not be God?
See the following link. Why mathematicians need to study the Bible
Jim it seems to me that would only apply to things that had physical volume, like grains of sand.
Anything else could and probably would have things external to it. Such as number sets, spiritual beings etc.
:think:
Hmmmm... I guess I disagree.
How about time? Is there an infinite amount of time going backwards into the past? (Time as in a sequence of events not the measurement of time that would be affected by the physical universe).
I would strongly disagree with that.
If there has not been a infinite amount of time (sequnce of events) into the past then how could God have existed an infinite amount of time into the past? Your assertion seems to be self refuting.
Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying.
If things didn't always happen sequentially how could God get from point A to Point B? Or get from non sequential events to sequential events? That is illogical.
Why do you think that God didn't have one thought after another thought and do one thing after another thing even before creation?
I do not believe that God created time (things happening as a sequence).
I believe that God is living..... and therefore experiences one thing after another and so on and therefore we experience that as well and we call that sequence of events "time".
Again... this is somewhat different than the measurement of time which be affected by the physical universe etc.
I'm not sure what you mean by "things happen". Before creation, there were no "things." And there were no "happenings". Both things and happenings are created phenomena.
Again, maybe we need to define what you mean by "event." Prior to creation, there were no "events."
Because God doesn't think the way we do. He is not a slave to sequential events, but rather is completely free. God is infinite. There are no limits or constraints upon Him.
I know. It's not a logical concept. When God created things and decreed sequential events, time was created.
Your logic doesn't follow. The "therefore" is non sequitur. The life of God pre-creation is not known to us. But we can logically infer the ramifications of the pre-creation existence of an infinite being. The very idea of a "thought process" with regard to God is an anthropopathism. God doesn't experience thought processes the way men do. That would be logically contradictory to His infinitude (I think that's a word
). Your stipulation that God must be like man in order to be living is backward and humanistic.
Do you think God planned creation?
LOLOriginally posted by Hilston
Yes. Do you think he used a number 2 pencil?
If God planned creation I would consider that an "event" wouldn't you?
No. God is not constrained by sequential constructs. He is not limited by a "process" or "procedure" of thought. He is totally, completely, thoroughly and absolutely free. That's why it's a mistake to assume that God thinks the way we do. Everything about our thought processes are constrained and enslaved to innumerable factors, effects and influences. This isn't true of God's mind. I think it is ineffable.Originally posted by Knight
LOL
If God planned creation I would consider that an "event" wouldn't you?
So when God was planning creation if that wasn't an "event" what was it?
Give it a name... any name.
Glick! I like that!
So... is this "glick" (planning creation) the only "glick" that God ever "glicked"? (prior to creation that is)
Yea... I think I would agree with that.
Now.... assuming God "glicks" often and that planning creation was a "glick" I bet we could agree that this planning creation glick" was comprised of many smaller "glicks" i.e., planning different parts of creation and so on.
- Planning out the universe... "glick"!
- Planning out nature... "glick"!
- Planning out animals and plants... "glick"!
- Planning out humans... "glick"!
- etc.
Fair enough?