This is an assumption and circular reasoning (assuming what you are trying to prove). The strength of the Open view is it takes God's revelation literally (verses that show God changing or an open future and predestination passages= some of the future is open and some of the future is settled), while the closed view only takes strong immutability and predestination passages literally and the others figuratively.
Open Theism Stirs Controversy on College Campuses
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This is an assumption and circular reasoning (assuming what you are trying to prove). The strength of the Open view is it takes God's revelation literally (verses that show God changing or an open future and predestination passages= some of the future is open and some of the future is settled), while the closed view only takes strong immutability and predestination passages literally and the others figuratively.
Ahhh, not so fast. In this context, it is a figure of speech only indirectly. Yes, the phrase comes from a figure of speech - we referenece the heart as that inner "je ne se qua" (you Frenchys out there get the correct spelling on that please!) of our emotions, but the context here is not referring to the beating heart, but to the actual figure of speech. Kind of a double-indirection, where the original reference is a figure, but the reference to the figure is literal.
Now, if the passage was "...and God's heart pumped blood..." THAT would be, directly, a figure of speech in the same context that we are speaking of here.
God_Is_Truth
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even this one?
John 4
24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
what's figurative about that? is it not a description?
God is love, God is truth, God is holy? Some desriptions are literal revelation of His nature, character, and ways. God is faithful, etc.
He will cover you with His wings. This is figurative.
SOME, not ALL descriptions are figurative. This is accepted hermeneutics and self-evident.
Is "spirit" an adequate description of God? No. The descriptions of God in scripture give us glimpses into His nature and character in terms that fall woefully short of reality. "God is spirit" calls to the human mind certain otherwise inconceivable attributes about God: He is invisible, He is not matter, He is not created, He is not limited. But all these terms are limited by the scope of human language and thought.
God_Is_Truth
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i agree that it is not a complete description of God, however, the question is whether or not it's a literal description. "spirit" does indeed imply the things you gave, and so i ask, are those things literal as well? or are they figurative? if so, what of? the word spirit itself is not figurative for "invisible, not created etc." but rather includes those in the term itself.
Accommodation? (language)
Anthropomorphisms/anthropopathisms?
God is transcendent, but He is also immanent.
God is uncreated Creator; we are creature.
Communication about God and man is not identical, nor is it radically different...e.g. God is personal and moral. Man is in the personal and moral image of God. God and man both have will, intellect, and emotions (impassibility and strong immutability are Greekish vs biblical concepts).
We are unlike God in His unique metaphysical qualities: eternity, triune, uncreated, Creator, omnipotent/scient/present.
erethnereh
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First, what's the difference, though, between molinism and open theology?
Second what's knowledge? Does knowledge consist of everything God knows or of something else. If something else, then it appears at the beginning God had no knowledge. But if knowledge is simply everything that God knows, then if God doesn't know the entire future, then the future isn't proper knowledge.
Second what's knowledge? Does knowledge consist of everything God knows or of something else. If something else, then it appears at the beginning God had no knowledge. But if knowledge is simply everything that God knows, then if God doesn't know the entire future, then the future isn't proper knowledge.
Well, we are human, so sometimes it does.:chuckle:
Why do you remember, why do you regret, when God has forgotten?! If God can not look upon sin, then what makes you think He can look upon your rememberance of them, anyway?
Not a 'relaxation,' but a removal. There is no penalty.
Oy.:doh:
No one even begins to think that this verse refers to a flesh and blood heart, Christine. I am not referencing my flesh and blood heart when I say, "I love God from the bottom of my heart." Are you?
:duh:
And we, most of the Open Theists on this board, also see God as such. He is not surprised we sin, but He may be surprised at what specific sin took place, or how deeply we sinned. This is why the blood of Jesus is effectual for all sin, for all time. Because God, though He did not know the specific times, places, and actions of our sins, knew we would sin. So He has forgiven us of all sin.
How about, "God is infinite"? Is that figurative? Or, "God is immortal"?
True the only point I was conceding was that God Doesn't really have a heart muscle.
Christine let's say for example the same sort of statement was made of Noah. Noah was sorry he had ever built the ark and it grieved him in his heart. When we read this we understand that Noahs actual heart muscle is not what we are talking about. Rather we would realize that Noah was grieved right down to the core of his inner being. This would in no way lead us to believe that he was not sorry he had built the ark. Would it?
So when Gen 6:6 says ...and it grieved him at his heart we get a very clear picture of how God literally felt about it!
How do you know these are only human attributes. We are after all made in the image of God! You have only managed to show that a God that can repent or be sorry does not fit Christine's view of God!
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Relax=remove in my mind.
We do not have to wallow in guilt, but rejoice in forgiveness. Satan tries to get us to remember. The reality is that we CAN remember if we want. God knows my every thought. Logically and by definition, an omniscient being would know my thoughts of my previous sin. I do not know more than the omniscient God. My point is that forgiveness does not mean amnesia biblically. It means that God choses to not bring up our sins or hold them against us due to redemption. He casts them as far as the east is from the west. This is figurative in that sins are not literal, physical items that can be thrown in the sea. Sins are choices that have affects, but they are not atomic/molecular/substance.
God_Is_Truth
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Christine
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From man's point of view, it may have looked like God repented of making man, or "repented" of saying he'd destroy Nineveh. Men describe the sun as "rising" and "setting" even though it's the earth, not the sun, that moves. So, was God's describing the events as how they appeared to the observer. Yet we're told in 1 Samuel 15:29, "And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. When God "repents" He is doing what He's promised all along, not punishing sinners that are repentant. Did God change His mind? Of course not! Man "repented" or changed, not God.
Only numbers in prophecy have meaning? What about other numbers like "seven" or "three?" Many would say they have significance as well, and if they have significance, why couldn't the number "forty?"
You think God could have interferred with man on earth to bring something about? Interesting, I've had other OV'ers tell me that in this present age God does not interfer with man.
All that appeared to be God's original plan, but God knew all along that Israel would want a king. God wasn't surprised when they wanted one, it's human nature to want to be like those around you. Israel wanted to be like the surrounding nations.
Time isn't real?
Just because God kept the Body secret until Paul's conversion doesn't mean it was "Plan B."
Everyone in the whole world?
If God knew and had the Body planned before he'd laid the "foundation of the earth," doesn't that mean He knew Adam and Eve were going to sin?
God does not change His mind, it just seems like that to man. What really happens is man repents/changes mind, making it so God does not have to bring forth judgement.
The part I put in bold is surprising coming from an OV'er. I thought the OV view of God was trying to draw all men to Him, not blinding some.
