No Longer A Christian
- Thread starter Granite
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Ecumenicist
New member
Sounds like you're finally a Christian to me. These are the
fruits of the Spirit you speak of, from Galatians 5:22.
Welcome.
Dave
Ecumenicist
New member
Things that Jesus never said:
"When you go into a town, be dogmatic and divisive, threatening,
hurting, and insulting as many people as you can."
djm
"When you go into a town, be dogmatic and divisive, threatening,
hurting, and insulting as many people as you can."
djm
Ecumenicist
New member
Egad, don't do that. Follow the One whom I follow, instead.
djm
Zakath
Resident Atheist
The idea that a man (or woman) would have no moral sense without their religion to force one upon them says that those folks have a high "external locus of control". They need someone or something outside themsleves to tell them what to do...
Other people don't necessarily need such external controls.
That's the big difference in the world - some people need religion and others can get along quite well without it...
Ecumenicist
New member
Scares the hell out of me, actually ...
djm
On Fire
New member
Let’s begin with a simple but profound truth:
God loves you – he is in love with you.
The scriptures say it over and over…
Romans 8:35-39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? … neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jeremiah 31:3 (NIV)
"I have loved you with an everlasting love;
I have drawn you with loving-kindness.
Ephes. 3:17-19 (NIV)
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge
It’s not just words – God’s love is proved through his actions… the death of Jesus.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
There really is something desirable within me that the King of the universe has moved heaven and earth to get.
Curtis and Elderedge, The Sacred Romance
You have been pursued, sought and are being wooed and enticed
God loves you.
Do you love him?
Your knee jerk response might be – well of course I do.
Do you love him this much…?
Mark 12:29-31 (NIV)
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
Here is my contention: (and you will discuss it in your groups this week…)
· we fixate on the mind/intellect
o I know it seems I am contradicting myself but there is a balance needed
· we fixate on the strength – duty and obedience
· We miss the heart and soul part
o our problem is that we think too much in terms of duty and too little in terms of passion
o What Jesus also means – to be in love with God – not just intellect, not just duty but also passion
Jesus is calling for us treat God as a person and let your relationship with him give you something live for…a guiding purpose.
When you wake up tomorrow know that the God of the universe is wooing you and offers you a soul stirring and life altering intimacy with Him.
A passion filled, love relationship with God is something to live for.
Now let me stop and acknowledge the inherent problems with this train of thought:
3 great problems of being in love with God:
· God has no skin – the invisible God
· Guys don’t get it. (Sacred Romance vs. Wild at Heart)
· We somehow just don’t believe it because of our life circumstances
To help us get over those hurdles…
So let me take you to a song written by a man in love with God
Psalm 42
Note 1st The intensity of his passion – this man loved God with his heart and his soul!
· Two images
o Thirst (after air there is nothing we require more)
o Restlessness almost agitation (“When can I go to meet with God�)
His soul, his very self, his deepest life was insatiable for a sense of the divine presence
Charles Spurgeon, The Treasury of David
I wonder what you are feeling right now …
· can you imagine a relationship with God that feels like this?
If this is going over your head or your heart let’s probe a little deeper into this song writer’s soul…
What awakens a passion for God?
Some of the emotions that lead us to God some are positive, some are negative.
A need for comfort
This man had all the classic signs of depression
“Tears, downcast, disturbed, mourning, oppressed, my bones are in agony�
He was depressed and he craved comfort – the comfort of someone’s presence – God’s presence.
He allowed that depression to drive him to God.
He found comfort in God – in particular Verse 8 – day and night presence.
As I thought about that verse others came to mind -
Zeph. 3:17
The Lord your God is with you,
he is mighty to save.
He will take great delight in you,
he will quiet you with his love,
he will rejoice over you with singing."
Isaiah 49:15-16
"Can a mother forget the baby at her breast
and have no compassion on the child she has borne?
Though she may forget,
I will not forget you!
See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands;
your walls are ever before me.
Psalm 56:8
You have taken account of my wanderings;
Put my tears in Your bottle.
Are they not in Your book?
The Anticipation of joy
He gets out his mental scrapbook – verse 4
He remembers fondly the good times – like a good picture does
It stimulates the anticipation of more to come
Every time you listen with great attentiveness to the voice that calls you the beloved, you will discover within yourself a desire to hear that voice longer and more deeply. It is like discovering a well in the desert. Once you have touched wet ground, you want to dig deeper.
Henri Nouwen, Life of the Beloved
There is more water there…keep digging.
Let’s get out our mental scrapbooks
· remember a time when God met you powerfully
o that moment you met him
o that special moment he met with you
o worship experience
o time as a child when he was so very real
Psalm 84:10 (NIV)
Better is one day in your courts
than a thousand elsewhere;
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
Loneliness
Vs. 9 alludes to the enemy but Psalm 43 (which really is an extension of Psalm 42 he goes into more detail)
Psalm 43
This man needed companionship and affirmation
· He felt deceived and oppressed by people – that loneliness drove him to God
What do you do with your loneliness? Your isolation and estrangement from certain people?
Most of us struggle mightily with our self images:
“You are my beloved� It certainly is not easy to hear that voice in a world filled with voices that shout: You are no good, you are ugly, you are worthless; you are despicable, you are nobody.
Life of the Beloved, Henri Nouwen
When we hear those voices we can curl into our ball, we can fight back with a vengeance or we can run to the arms of God.
To the beat up among us – hear the voice of God
“You are my beloved daughter�
“You are my beloved son�
…with you I am well pleased.
I am not going to pretend that through this one message you will suddenly find a new passion to pursue God – old habits die hard…but I do hope we stir your feelings and entice you to consider that…
Gods loves you more deeply than you can imagine
A passion filled, love relationship with God is something to live for.
God loves you – he is in love with you.
The scriptures say it over and over…
Romans 8:35-39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? … neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jeremiah 31:3 (NIV)
"I have loved you with an everlasting love;
I have drawn you with loving-kindness.
Ephes. 3:17-19 (NIV)
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge
It’s not just words – God’s love is proved through his actions… the death of Jesus.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
There really is something desirable within me that the King of the universe has moved heaven and earth to get.
Curtis and Elderedge, The Sacred Romance
You have been pursued, sought and are being wooed and enticed
God loves you.
Do you love him?
Your knee jerk response might be – well of course I do.
Do you love him this much…?
Mark 12:29-31 (NIV)
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
Here is my contention: (and you will discuss it in your groups this week…)
· we fixate on the mind/intellect
o I know it seems I am contradicting myself but there is a balance needed
· we fixate on the strength – duty and obedience
· We miss the heart and soul part
o our problem is that we think too much in terms of duty and too little in terms of passion
o What Jesus also means – to be in love with God – not just intellect, not just duty but also passion
Jesus is calling for us treat God as a person and let your relationship with him give you something live for…a guiding purpose.
When you wake up tomorrow know that the God of the universe is wooing you and offers you a soul stirring and life altering intimacy with Him.
A passion filled, love relationship with God is something to live for.
Now let me stop and acknowledge the inherent problems with this train of thought:
3 great problems of being in love with God:
· God has no skin – the invisible God
· Guys don’t get it. (Sacred Romance vs. Wild at Heart)
· We somehow just don’t believe it because of our life circumstances
To help us get over those hurdles…
So let me take you to a song written by a man in love with God
Psalm 42
Note 1st The intensity of his passion – this man loved God with his heart and his soul!
· Two images
o Thirst (after air there is nothing we require more)
o Restlessness almost agitation (“When can I go to meet with God�)
His soul, his very self, his deepest life was insatiable for a sense of the divine presence
Charles Spurgeon, The Treasury of David
I wonder what you are feeling right now …
· can you imagine a relationship with God that feels like this?
If this is going over your head or your heart let’s probe a little deeper into this song writer’s soul…
What awakens a passion for God?
Some of the emotions that lead us to God some are positive, some are negative.
A need for comfort
This man had all the classic signs of depression
“Tears, downcast, disturbed, mourning, oppressed, my bones are in agony�
He was depressed and he craved comfort – the comfort of someone’s presence – God’s presence.
He allowed that depression to drive him to God.
He found comfort in God – in particular Verse 8 – day and night presence.
As I thought about that verse others came to mind -
Zeph. 3:17
The Lord your God is with you,
he is mighty to save.
He will take great delight in you,
he will quiet you with his love,
he will rejoice over you with singing."
Isaiah 49:15-16
"Can a mother forget the baby at her breast
and have no compassion on the child she has borne?
Though she may forget,
I will not forget you!
See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands;
your walls are ever before me.
Psalm 56:8
You have taken account of my wanderings;
Put my tears in Your bottle.
Are they not in Your book?
The Anticipation of joy
He gets out his mental scrapbook – verse 4
He remembers fondly the good times – like a good picture does
It stimulates the anticipation of more to come
Every time you listen with great attentiveness to the voice that calls you the beloved, you will discover within yourself a desire to hear that voice longer and more deeply. It is like discovering a well in the desert. Once you have touched wet ground, you want to dig deeper.
Henri Nouwen, Life of the Beloved
There is more water there…keep digging.
Let’s get out our mental scrapbooks
· remember a time when God met you powerfully
o that moment you met him
o that special moment he met with you
o worship experience
o time as a child when he was so very real
Psalm 84:10 (NIV)
Better is one day in your courts
than a thousand elsewhere;
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
Loneliness
Vs. 9 alludes to the enemy but Psalm 43 (which really is an extension of Psalm 42 he goes into more detail)
Psalm 43
This man needed companionship and affirmation
· He felt deceived and oppressed by people – that loneliness drove him to God
What do you do with your loneliness? Your isolation and estrangement from certain people?
Most of us struggle mightily with our self images:
“You are my beloved� It certainly is not easy to hear that voice in a world filled with voices that shout: You are no good, you are ugly, you are worthless; you are despicable, you are nobody.
Life of the Beloved, Henri Nouwen
When we hear those voices we can curl into our ball, we can fight back with a vengeance or we can run to the arms of God.
To the beat up among us – hear the voice of God
“You are my beloved daughter�
“You are my beloved son�
…with you I am well pleased.
I am not going to pretend that through this one message you will suddenly find a new passion to pursue God – old habits die hard…but I do hope we stir your feelings and entice you to consider that…
Gods loves you more deeply than you can imagine
A passion filled, love relationship with God is something to live for.
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