NFL 2015

[Town Heretic]

This is just getting ridiculous. You...you do know that, right?:noid:

Getting? We passed that at the Chickasabogue exit. :chuckle:

I remember you saying it more than once. Don't know what else to tell ya.

I think you're misremembering, but it's possible, if they hit thirty before or around the mid mark, teams typically don't fare as well by the end. So it would be a reasonable statement, regardless. Like saying a team that turns the ball over more will tend to lose. They might not, but they mostly will.

It's your old thread. Dig it up yourself (if you can; the search functionality here leaves something to be desired).

Why? I'm not accusing me of anything. If I make a point that needs sustaining I'll be happy to, as I did with noting my praise for your guy as a qb. Seems fair.

I'm a big fan, yes, but I don't think I'm the one over-emotionalizing here.

I think you have an investment in knocking him down a peg, as per your "aw-shucks" and pedagree comments and the whole comparison bit I noted earlier.

I made the mistake of pointing out Peyton's not himself and that observers who are paid to write this stuff for a living have noted recently that his decline is obvious, noticeable, and would put anyone else in his position on a very warm seat.

Rather, you picked one anonymous Yahoo Sports copy putting out a thing that begged rebuttal and got it. If he was a rookie we'd be grumbling, but it's Peyton Manning. We know how good he is so most people understand that whatever is going wrong likely isn't a sudden collapse, especially if you've been watching his games, seen him make deep throws and throws across field, outs, etc.

The arm is still able enough. The head is indisputable. So what's happening? He isn't in sync with his wrs consistently. And that's less surprising when you consider that he's running a new system.

You're consistently incapable or unwilling of ever putting much blame on #18's shoulders.

No, I've even cataloged some of his awful games in the playoffs. What I've been unwilling to do is tolerate the jackasery that follows from those who have an ax to grind or an interest in exaggerating the problem.

That's an endearing trait for a fan--to a point. But sooner or later the writing's on the wall.

Time gets everyone. But there's no reason to think that's the case yet, even if you really want or benefit by it.

Stay classy.:yawn:

The truth is the truth.

 

[tetelestai]

Didn't learn anything from the last time then.

There's nothing to learn.

Johnny Manziel was drinking, driving over 90mph, passing on the berm, and his girlfriend told police he hit her a couple of times.

Bill Cowher, Stephen A. Smith, Jim Rome, and a host of other media personalities are in agreement with me.

"It's upsetting. It's upsetting for all of us. I don't know how much more I can say on it." - Mike Pettine, Cleveland Browns Head Coach.

 

[tetelestai]

Two, I am close to through to ever discussing Peyton frigging Manning with you again.

It doesn't really matter. Peyton will do another "one-and-done" in the playoffs this year.

I don't care if the Broncos go 16-0, Peyton Manning will still choke in the first playoff game like he has done nine other times, and like he has done twice in his last three years with the Broncos.

 

[Town Heretic]

There's nothing to learn.

Sure there was and I just set it out. Very different from your cherry picked distortion.

Johnny Manziel was drinking, driving over 90mph, passing on the berm, and his girlfriend told police he hit her a couple of times.

Except he'd actually had two drinks, some time apart, wasn't impaired, and before he had an argument with his obviously drunk and hostile girl. The one who was threatened with drunk and disorderly for her attitude and actions on the scene.

No one knows how fast he was driving because he wasn't pulled over for speeding or cited.

Bill Cowher, Stephen A. Smith, Jim Rome, and a host of other media personalities are in agreement with me.

Then they need to read the actual police report too.

"It's upsetting. It's upsetting for all of us. I don't know how much more I can say on it." Mike Pettine, Cleveland Browns Head Coach.

He should be upset. At the very least his qb was involved in an incident that doesn't reflect well on a) the team and b) his commitment to reshaping public perception. I can't say he's failed his rehab because I don't know what that rehab was for, but if it involved intoxicants I don't know of any program where switching from one to another or moderation with alcohol is in keeping.

See, I don't have a problem with reasonable criticism. But the drunk abuser wasn't that. Neither was your 90 mph and drinking attempt to lend an impression to the narrative that isn't supported by the facts we actually have on hand from the police report.

Now say something else stupid and assumptive.

It doesn't really matter. Peyton will do another "one-and-done" in the playoffs this year.

I don't care if the Broncos go 16-0, Peyton Manning will still choke in the first playoff game like he has done nine other times, and like he has done twice in his last three years with the Broncos.

That'll do it. :thumb:

 

[tetelestai]

Except he'd actually had two drinks, some time apart, wasn't impaired,

You are old enough to know that intoxicated people always say "I only had two drinks".

The police (most likely Brown's fans) said they could smell alcohol, but that Manziel didn't appear intoxicated.

and before he had an argument with his obviously drunk and hostile girl.

You want us to believe that Manziel went out drinking with his girlfriend and she had way more to drink than he did?

The one who was threatened with drunk and disorderly for her attitude and actions on the scene.

She dates Johnny Football, what do you expect?

No one knows how fast he was driving because he wasn't pulled over for speeding or cited.

It happened on an Interstate with a speed limit of 70mph. The eyewitness said Manziel was doing "about 90 mph". Assuming the eyewitness was doing 70mph, for Manziel to pass the eyewitness at the rate he did, I believe the eyewitness.

Then they need to read the actual police report too.

They did, did you?

That'll do it. :thumb:

We'll see in January.

 

[Nick M]

She dates Johnny Football, what do you expect?

Somebody that looks and acts like they are trying out for MTVs Jersey Shore.

 

[Town Heretic]

You are old enough to know that intoxicated people always say "I only had two drinks".

You're old enough to read a police report and see the officer's comments about his sobriety in support of Johnny's claim.

The police (most likely Brown's fans) said they could smell alcohol, but that Manziel didn't appear intoxicated.

So you're also willing to defame the officer without warrant. Thanks. But if he had any doubt he'd have field tested him. That's what they do. If he'd been the sort to want to sweep anything under the rug you'd never have gotten the report out of it that we did.

You want us to believe that Manziel went out drinking with his girlfriend and she had way more to drink than he did?

I want you to honestly reflect the police report. She said she'd had more. And you just said people trim their self reporting.

Then there's what the police officer on the scene said about her behavior. She was intoxicated. Johnny wasn't. That's all we can assert from the record.

It happened on an Interstate with a speed limit of 70mph. The eyewitness said Manziel was doing "about 90 mph".

An eyewitness who doesn't have the equipment and training and who, unless she was blazing down the highway, only knew that he passed her going faster than she was going. How fast was that? We don't know.

But I was more interested in your attempt, combining drinking and the unsupported allegation of a high rate of speed to produce a picture that just isn't there.

They did, did you?

Then they didn't agree with you on your points because it would open them to suit, the actual police report painting a very different picture, as I noted in drawing from it in my initial response to your irresponsible drunk abuser allegation.

Now if you're going to mention them again I'd appreciate direct quotes. You're doing so badly with the police report I'd like verification of your assertions regarding their being on board with it.

We'll see in January.

No, I've already set out the gross mischaracterization of your claim as it relates to a historical perspective.

As for January, I don't know that he'll be in the playoffs. I hope so, but they're going to have to improve that offense to advance. I'm worried that Peyton won't hold up under the hammering he's taking, so either that line has to play better or they have to put him in the shotgun or I'm concerned for his safety, playoffs a secondary consideration.

And while I'd be happy for him if he could ride into the sunset a-la Elway, my rooting interest is in Indianapolis, thank you.

 

[tetelestai]

You're old enough to read a police report

We're going to have to agree to disagree for now, but eventually we'll find out who was right.

And while I'd be happy for him if he could ride into the sunset a-la Elway, my rooting interest is in Indianapolis, thank you.

Other than Elway, and maybe Bettis, it doesn't happen often.

 

[Town Heretic]

We're going to have to agree to disagree for now,

No we don't. I invite anyone to go back to the link and read the police report. I'm completely right on the facts as presented. And that's all I've rested on in taking you to task for distorting them and for going further and impugning the officer, even offhandedly, because his narrative didn't support yours.

Whatever else happens is another animal, assuming anything does. Maybe tomorrow she'll make additional claims or retract the inconsistent and unsupported testimony she offered at the scene. Who knows?

but eventually we'll find out who was right.

I wasn't speculating. So at best (for you) something will come out that bolsters your suspicions in a way the narrative we have on hand doesn't. Wouldn't alter my point if it did.

Else, I hope Manziel gets his life together. I don't see him drinking at all as a good sign that he has, regardless of his sobriety at the time of the incident.

Re: sunsets

Other than Elway, and maybe Bettis, it doesn't happen often.

No, it doesn't. But then, who thought Elway would go out that way? Long odds. Anyway, I've got enough trouble with my Colts, who don't look to have solved the same problems that haunted them with Peyton.

 

[tetelestai]

No we don't. I invite anyone to go back to the link and read the police report. I'm completely right on the facts as presented.

Circumstantial Evidence.

Else, I hope Manziel gets his life together.

So do I, despite how foolish it makes the Browns look if he doesn't. I would never hope someone fails due to a struggle with alcohol and/or drugs.

I don't see him drinking at all as a good sign

I think the worst thing that could have happened to Johnny, was not being the starting QB. If he was the starter, I really think he would have stayed out of trouble.

Not being the starter, is like having too much time on your hands, and eventually it leads to trouble.

Anyway, I've got enough trouble with my Colts

No worries, their division is awful, so they will be the #4 seed considering the other three division leaders are all undefeated right now, and they will have at least one playoff game at home.

 

[Town Heretic]

Circumstantial Evidence.

All we have at hand, but circumstantial? No, the report, which contains circumstantial evidence also contains direct evidence. The officer's notes on his sobriety are direct evidence on the point, by way of.

So do I, despite how foolish it makes the Browns look if he doesn't. I would never hope someone fails due to a struggle with alcohol and/or drugs.

Glad to hear it. :thumb:

I think the worst thing that could have happened to Johnny, was not being the starting QB. If he was the starter, I really think he would have stayed out of trouble.

You mean before the rehab? Because he mostly has since, at least as far as we know. I wonder though if being the starter would have meant the difference. You want rumors, there were rumors in conference that his coach was happy to see the taillights on him. Great competitor but there was something juvenile in his conduct long before it became a serious impediment to his future as an NFL player, assuming he has one or even necessarily would have.

No worries, their division is awful, so they will be the #4 seed considering the other three division leaders are all undefeated right now, and they will have at least one playoff game at home.

My main concern is that as with Peyton, we have a qb who is good enough to get us into the playoffs, but can't carry the team to the SB without help that will take a long time coming because we don't get high draft picks on account...the old Marino factor. I still think that's why Dan's only trip happened early in the day.

 

[tetelestai]

because we don't get high draft picks on account...the old Marino factor.

It can be done without high draft picks, the Steelers have been very good at it.

Since 1972, the Steelers have had FOUR draft picks in the top 10, with nothing higher than #7, and only one (an #8) in the last 25 years.

During that same span the Browns have had 17 draft picks in the top 10, including two overall #1 picks, five #3 picks, and one #2 pick.

 

[Town Heretic]

It can be done without high draft picks, the Steelers have been very good at it.

Great machine. We don't have that tradition and the last house clearing isn't exactly setting up a noticeable difference. :idunno: I really think stability over time and a sure sense of identity is worth a great deal. It's what New England has established in their run and what the Steelers have had for quite a while. Dallas could have if the owner hadn't fired his best chance to continue that legacy. Ah, well. You have to start somewhere and it could almost always be worse.

 

[tetelestai]

It's what New England has established in their run and what the Steelers have had for quite a while.

The Patriots have done well in the draft for not having high draft picks, they have had one top 10 pick since 2000, and no first round picks in 2000, 2009, and 2013 (plus no first round pick in 2016)

However, they have signed a lot of big name free agents, something the Steelers NEVER do.

Randy Moss, Corey Dillon, Junior Seau, Rodney Harrison, Mike Vrabel, Rob Ninkovich, Derrell Revis, Danny Amendola, etc.

You might find this interesting.... The Patriots were tied with one other team for the most free agent signings for 2015 (18 each).....that other team is the Colts.

 

[JPPT1974]

Well Landry Jones to start for the Steelers. Michael Vick still hurting!

 

[Granite]

Johnny can't keep himself out of trouble, one way or another. The kid needs help or pretty soon his pro career's over before it begins.

 

[tetelestai]

Well Landry Jones to start for the Steelers. Michael Vick still hurting!

Yep.

One more game, and then Big Ben will be back.

When Ben went out, the hope was for the Steelers to go at least 2-2 in what appeared to be a tough schedule (Balt, @ SD, Ariz, @KC). Going 3-1 was improbable back then, but now a possibility.

If the Steelers can somehow win at KC, they would be 5-2 with a three game homestand coming up, and Ben back.

That would put them in good shape, and even give them a chance to catch the Bengals.

 

[tetelestai]

Good news for Granite:

The Patriots have scored 183 points and are 5-0. In 2007 the Patriots had 182 points when they were 5-0.

Bad news for TH:

Peyton Manning has 10 interceptions. That's the most he has had through six games since his rookie year.

 

[Granite]

Good news for Granite:

The Patriots have scored 183 points and are 5-0. In 2007 the Patriots had 182 points when they were 5-0.

Bad news for TH:

Peyton Manning has 10 interceptions. That's the most he has had through six games since his rookie year.

I'll be very interested to see how they can attack the Jet defense on Sunday. The NYJ are far more low-key now without Rex stirring the pot so the trash talking we've been used to just isn't happening.

 

[tetelestai]

My ranking of the five undefeated teams:

1) Patriots
2) Packers
3) Bengals
4) Panthers
5) Broncos