Or he just flat out chokes in the postseason.
NFL 2014
- Thread starter Nick M
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Or he just flat out chokes in the postseason.
Peyton Manning has NINE one-and-dones. Why did you only list six?
2005 (which you left out) was probably his biggest choke ever. Peyton and the Colts were heavy favorites against the Steelers, but Peyton played horribly, and the #1 seed Colts lost.
I also don't buy into this "if he only had better teams" nonsense. Who else do you want him throwing to during his heyday?
With Peyton I really do believe it's a combination of bad luck, timing, and a tendency to just try to be too smart for his own good. It happens. Diminishes nothing in terms of his greatness, but you can't tell me his nerves haven't gotten the better of him at least a couple times.
Marino, like Peyton Manning, had a tendency to choke in big games.
At the University of Pittsburgh, Marino was surrounded by amazing talent on a team that was the preseason #1 ranked team his junior and senior years. A team that had seven players chosen in the first round of the NFL Draft.
Yet, Dan Marino always played poorly in big games at Pitt, and they never finished #1 with Marino, despite having the most talented team in the country.
Pay attention. I included it, though it's under 06 because that's when it was actually played. I left off the last game because while I think he blew it, he blew it due to injury and that's another horse.
He has seven losses by a combined 26 points else, with the Jets game skewing the average.
Additional facts people like you won't likely consider but to objective analysis should stop the nonsense (kudos to NFL Archive writer Kacsmar):
176/362 (58.3 percent) – This includes over 30 dropped passes in what equates to half a regular season.
2,075 passing yards (6.87 YPA)
10 TD passes, one TD run
6 INT – Three deflected off his own receiver’s hands, two thrown vs. 2002 Jets when Colts trailed 34-0/41-0 in 4th quarter.
82.0 passer rating – This would rank 23rd all time in postseason history (min. 150 attempts).
Six games with rating of 82.0 or better (five over 88.3, which is roughly career rating).
Seven losses by a combined 26 points; one other loss by 41 points.
Led in final 5:00 of fourth quarter five times.
Led in final 0:40 of fourth quarter four times.
Three overtime losses.
Two games where Manning’s last possession resulted in a missed field goal by Mike Vanderjagt (2000 MIA, 2005 PIT).
2002 at Jets: Manning set Vanderjagt up for 41-yard FG, trailing 7-0. The next time he took the field, it was 17-0 Jets.
A memorable play where Nick Harper could have returned Jerome Bettis’ fumble for game-winning TD, but was tackled by Ben Roethlisberger.
Billy Volek came off the bench for Philip Rivers to lead Chargers on fourth-quarter comeback win (2007).
The worst average starting field position for any road team in the playoffs in the last 30 years (2008 San Diego).
I don't understand that argument either.
There are only 10 players in the history of the NFL with 1,000 or more receptions, and Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are two of those players.
Harrison is #3, and is second only to Jerry Rice for receptions by a wide receiver.
There goes myopic tet, scrambling to make a contrary point. I don't care what he did in college, though many a number one has been number two (either) by the final gun. As a pro I saw him take teams that were dreadful and win with them, take one of those to a SB. I'm not sure anyone else would have.
He posted remarkable numbers without the advantages modern signal callers have to amply pad their stats. I'd probably still take Montana, because I'd use the SF system, but man...hard to reasonably argue against Dan.
That's because you don't want to get into how well your team did without Brady and how poorly mine did without Manning. It hurts your guy.
See, that's moving goal posts. I didn't say he had bad wrs. I said he had bad teams. I've set out prior games where his defenses have completely let him down. The Colt's problem was always that it had stars at a few skill positions and lesser players around them, along with mostly okay coaching. Dungy was the only really good defensive coach and he made the most out of the talent to take pressure off of Peyton.
I think that plays in, but teams matter, which is why Barry Sanders never made it to the dance, along with a lot of extraordinary players at every position. A great qb can do what no other skill position player can in terms of impact, but as Elway and Marino can attest, they won't win much that matters without it.
I think I can. That is, I think every qb who steps on the field is nervous. It's what you do with it. That's just the reality of competition in any endeavor. I got butterflies before a bench trial, but I chose to think of it the way you do that rise on the roller coaster, instead of a rush toward a fire.
Stuff like this works both ways.
For example, in 2005 against the Steelers, Troy Polamalu intercepted a Manning pass, but tripped and fell, the ball bounced off his knee, and they ruled it an incomplete pass.
So, maybe the writer should include all the dropped interceptions too.
It's amazing how people keep making excuses for how Peyton chokes in the postseason.
In college, Marino was surrounded by the best talent in the country, but still choked in big games.
Yet, somehow you think that if Marino was surrounded by the best talent in the NFL, he wouldn't choke in big games.
That doesn't make much sense to me.
Or looking at it another way, it may burst the bubble of your pet "anomaly" and explain why Pats players don't excel on other teams: Because the system there works. But I digress.
Oh, I see; so aside from Peyton, his receivers, his coach, his tight ends, his running back, and a pretty decent kicker, that leaves...whoa, what a shock! That's everybody but Peyton and the offense.:chuckle:
But last I heard defenses don't throw picks. Ya know. Just saying.
Poor loyal Barry.
You think he hangs it up?
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I didn't watch his college and given your way of seeing some of what we've looked at I can't credit you on the point, but I did see him in the pros and so yeah, I can say that with a great deal of comfort.
Doesn't surprise me at all.
I think the system and coaching works wonderfully. It doesn't impact the anomaly because it occurs even within the metric of that closed system.
Man, that would be damning if it remotely resembled what I did say.
Thank goodness it didn't. An inconsistent kicker who cost them some important games (included in a look the numbers in my last) no real running game to speak of for most of his career. So an essentially one dimensional offense with a defense that consisted of a similar three or four stars surrounded by a want of depth and support.And his picks (everyone throws them, just saying) were rarely the thing that sent his teams home, which is why his post season numbers look better than Brady's even with that injury disaster game factored in.
The off year establishes the difference between Brady's team and Peyton's. And, again, Brady inherited not only a much better coach but a much better team right from the start. It doesn't diminish Tom, but it contextualizes the oft errant mythology surrounding the two, one the numbers won't support.
Can you imagine him on that Cowboys team Emmitt had? Man...
I think that averages are built against average and I do think he has a tendency to try too hard, a habit built on the weaknesses of those earlier teams. And that can and has hurt him on occasion. I don't think he chokes, I think sometimes he takes on more than he can. It's a quiet Favre streak that's masked by the cerebral nature of his play, but it's something a better coach would have rooted. Ah, well...
Assuming there is an "anomaly," and there's more and more out there that addresses the original clickbait headline.
A squad that still managed to get into the postseason year in year out and racked up double digital wins like clockwork. If they kept stumbling in at 9-7 or earning a berth due to tiebreakers, it'd be one thing. They dominated in the regular season year in year out. At this point I might start wondering if eight games in a dome and a soft division had something to do with it.
Rarely, true...though he always managed to find one hell of a time to throw one or two.:chuckle:
With you on the myth.:cheers:
:noway:
As opposed to choking, he bites off more than he can chew. Okay. I can live with that.:chuckle:
Not without Peyton. Without Peyton they won how many? Two. They won two games after going double digit wins since 2003.
As long as Peyton was at the helm, which is my point. Without him they looked like a team that had to jettison coaches and players and rebuild what was mostly a weak team held together by a once in a blue moon quarterback, which is what then happened.
I think playing half your games without the influence of awful weather and then running into it in the playoffs couldn't help, but Peyton wasn't really a bad poor weather qb. You have to dip into the extremes of cold to impact him and then, as with most, sure.
And I think those were almost always on the heels of a defensive or special teams lapse and played to that internal sense that he'd have to do it in spite of, which was truer than most realized until the injury year and the exposure that followed.
It's a shame people can't settle for greatness and just appreciate it for what it is.
I think the same was true for Elway until he found the right team late and a coach who could force him into a system. I don't know if there's time for it or if Kubiak is the man to do it or if Peyton's wheels are starting to come off an it's like Marino's leg, but I hope Manning heals up and gives it a shot.
Good luck in the game, by the way. :e4e:
This is getting ridiculous.
Let's look at the running game Peyton Manning had:
Marshall Faulk
1998 - 1,319 yards
Edgerrin James:
1999 - 1,553 yards
2000 - 1,709 yards
Dominic Rhodes
2001 - 1,104 yards
Edgerrin James:
2003 - 1,259 yards
2004 - 1,548 yards
2005 - 1,506 yards
Joseph Addai
2006 - 1,081 yards
2007 - 1,072 yards
Knowshon Moreno
2013 - 1,038 yards
As we see above, in Peyton Manning's 16 years, he has has a 1,000+ yard running back 10 times.
Edgerrin James is 11th all time in the history of the NFL for rushing yards with 12,246 yards.
IOW, Peyton Manning played 7 years alongside the running back with the 11th most yards gained in NFL history (Edgerrin James), 1 year with the running back with the 10th most yards in NFL history (Marshall Faulk), and Peyton had 2 of only 10 receivers in NFL history with at least 1,000 receptions (Marvin Harrison & Reggie Wayne)
Yet, TH thinks Peyton Manning was burdened with a one dimensional offense that had no running game.
Yet, TH thinks Peyton Manning was burdened with a one dimensional offense that had no running game.
shagster01
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There were 13 1,000 yard rushers this year alone and it's not the running league it used to be. Not so sure hitting 1,000 yards proves much other than that you have a running back that is in the top half as far as individual production.
Peyton Manning had the 11th ranked running back of all time for 7 years, and the 10 ranked back of all time for 1 year at Indy, and TH claims Peyton had no real running game for most of his career.
Not to mention having Rhodes & Addai also.
It's a ridiculous claim.
Oh I think you got there a long time ago.
Rather, let's look at the effectiveness of the rushing game instead of pretending that having a couple of backs, one great (for a year) and another really good for a couple more makes a difference.
Rank by yards gained/average per gain comparison:
1998: 26th/17th
1999:19th/12th
2000: 16th/5th
2001: 7th/4th
2002: 26th/29th
2003: 19th/26th
2004: 15th/11th
2005: 16th/24th
2006: 18th/16th
2007: 18th/22nd
2008: 31st/32nd
2009: 32nd/30th
2010: 29th/25th
So yeah, for most of his Colts career Peyton didn't have an effective rushing attack, cracking the top ten in either category a whopping twice and mostly playing sub league average. The last five or six especially forgettable.
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