New Zealand gunmen kill 49 people at two mosques

[JudgeRightly]

Yep. They at least would have had a chance, which is really all we gun-rights 'nuts' are saying. We have an inalienable right to have a chance if we are ever targeted by a murderer. Where 'murderer' also denotes 'attempted murderer,' because hopefully, we can stop them.
If the death penalty can be avoided, I think it should be.

It can't always be avoided, and that should always be because of the murderer, and not because of innocent people, imo.

The death penalty should be avoided?

If we had the death penalty for convicted murderers, and those who attempted to murder someone, murder rampages like this wouldn't be so common.

 

[Idolater]

This is true, but statistics regarding how many guns are in circulation and who owns them aren't overly useful.

It's useful when analyzing how the number of guns in civilian hands relates to the murders committed in those places.

Having the US at 120 per 100 citizens really makes the analysis easy. There are nations where the number is closer to 1.2 per 100, maybe even less. So over the whole world's range, of between say 0 and 120 civilian owned guns per 100 civilians, do you know what the impact is on a nation's murder rate?

You guessed it: Zero correlation. The only possibility is that it's correlated very loosely, and the trend is negative, not positive, thanks largely in part to the US's 120 way out on the rightmost part of the chart, and the murder rate in the US being on the low side for all the world's nations.

So at worst, there is zero correlation between murders committed, and civilian owned guns. At best, the data actually implies that the more civilian owned guns, the lower the murder rate.

 

[Idolater]

That was sort of my point.

It really doesn't matter how many guns there are, so long as those who use them to harm others are punished appropriately.

Yes, by all the innocent people who are armed, stopping them right quick. Fatally if necessary.

 

[Idolater]

Overwhelmingly, those are inner city blacks
shooting other inner city blacks

to the leftist, it's a win-win - blacks, who they hate, killing each other and stats that can be manipulated to give a rationale for taking guns away from law-abiding citizens

The odds of any other race of being murdered is something like five times longer than for a black man in the US. iow, it's something like five times more likely that you'll be murdered if you're a black man, than if you're any other race, in the US.

 

[Idolater]

What would you suggest a person should use to arm themselves in the face of Almighty vengeance? They weren't victims they were the targets of wrath.

What are you talking about. And I thought I was on ignore.

 

[Idolater]

The death penalty should be avoided?

If we had the death penalty for convicted murderers, and those who attempted to murder someone, murder rampages like this wouldn't be so common.

There's no correlation between having the death penalty or not having the death penalty on a nation's murder rate.

No correlation means that it does nothing one way or another.

So I'm fine with avoiding the death penalty when possible.

 

[Idolater]

And damn laws that infringe in how easy it is for innocent people to procure and keep and carry superlative military grade weaponry, such as standard issue rifles and carbines. Where 'standard issue' is literally the standard service rifles and carbines that every military the world round provides to their warriors; i.e. specifically selective fire. Not 'semi-automatic.' No responsible military outfits their warriors with 'semi-automatic' weaponry (besides handguns), because they would be outgunned all other things being equal. So talk about 'semi-automatic' weapons being 'military' is Fake News. 'Semi-automatic' weapons (besides handguns) are Not Military. They are all civilian weapons.

Re: "Last edited by JudgeRightly; Today at 11:40 AM. Reason: Edited out blasphemy."

I didn't blaspheme. Cool your jets. I was quite serious in what I originally wrote. I call down a curse from God upon those laws.

 

[ok doser]

The odds of any other race of being murdered is something like five times longer than for a black man in the US. iow, it's something like five times more likely that you'll be murdered if you're a black man, than if you're any other race, in the US.

and this is what the left prefers to ignore, because their only interest in the black community is as a base of power, a source of votes

 

[Stripe]

https://youtu.be/pELwCqz2JfE

 

[Idolater]

Re: "Last edited by JudgeRightly; Today at 11:40 AM. Reason: Edited out blasphemy."

I didn't blaspheme. Cool your jets. I was quite serious in what I originally wrote. I call down a curse from God upon those laws.

I got an infraction for this post, fyi.

Is it, JR, blasphemy, if I wrote, "God curse those evil laws," instead of what I did write?

 

[ok doser]

https://youtu.be/pELwCqz2JfE

bill whittle is great

if only the retards on the left who push for more stringent gun control would listen to this - i know they won't, because, well, they're retards :idunno:


the deadliest places in the united states are those cities that already have stringent gun control laws, like detroit, philly, chicago

 

[ok doser]

https://us.cnn.com/2019/03/20/asia/new-zealand-christchurch-gun-ban-intl/index.html

Stupid.

CNN)All military-style semi-automatic weapons, assault rifles and high-capacity magazines will be banned in New Zealand following the mass shootings at two Christchurch mosques that killed 50 people, New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced on Thursday.

"On 15 March our history changed forever. Now our laws will too. We are announcing action today on behalf of all New Zealanders to strengthen our gun laws and make our country a safer place," Ardern said at a press conference in the capital Wellington.
The announcement came after the country's cabinet agreed to overhaul the law and ban military-style semi-automatics and assault rifles 72 hours after the Christchurch attacks.

"Every semi-automatic weapon used in the terror attack on Friday will be banned," Ardern continued, adding that she hoped the law would be in place by April 11. "This legislation will be drafted and introduced in urgency."

https://us.cnn.com/2019/03/20/asia/new-zealand-christchurch-gun-ban-intl/index.html

i wonder if they'll ban credit card readers as well?

 

[Idolater]

i wonder if they'll ban credit card readers as well?

If it saves just one life, it will all be worth it.

Regarding the article:

1. Imagine this quote, pulled from the article, only written in German, and in the 1930s, with the addition of one word:

"It is absolutely vital that we manage the safe and organized transport of all [Jews'] firearms into police custody."

Did you catch which word I inserted? That's right I went there. Laws that meddle in gun markets (which is where innocent people get their guns) target Jews, and blacks, and women, and LGBT people, along with everybody else. They are hateful, racist, mysogynist laws. Nazi laws.

Which is why I called down a curse of God upon them (and then got an infraction for it).

2.

In the wake of the [Australian gun confiscation], mass shootings in Australia dropped to zero, gun suicides declined by an average of 4.8% per year, and gun-related homicides declined by an average of 5.5% per year.^*

Philip Alpers, founding director of GunPolicy.org and a University of Sydney academic, said the buyback "has a good chance of delivering the same life-saving public health benefit^* as that which followed the 1996 Australian [confiscation]."

^* -Article's author, and this Philip Alpers both, fail to mention: Over the same time period, while civilian gun ownership dropped in Australia due to their confiscation, civilian gun ownership in the US rose substantially, and in the US, we experienced a similar drop in "gun-related homicides" as Australia did.

So over the same time period, if you lowered civilian gun ownership, or if you raised it, your gun-related murder rate dropped, either way.

'Article failed to mention that.

'Can't think why.

 

[Idolater]

I got an infraction for this post, fyi.

Is it, JR, blasphemy, if I wrote, "God curse those evil laws," instead of what I did write?

I called down a curse on wicked gun control laws, that result in the murder and rape of innocent people the world round every day of every year. Someone right now as I type is being murdered or raped because they're not armed, because governments all over the earth are illicitly and wickedly meddling in gun markets, infringing the inalienable human rights to life, to not be raped, to self defense, and to own and to carry superlative weaponry.

 

[Town Heretic]

Demonstrably untrue, of course. What you mean is shooting deaths are greater.

Which is understood if unless you pull a sentence out of context.

Here's the context again:

What I noted (and what we know) is that we have more guns by far than any other Western industrial democracy and yet we're far less safe than any other Western industrial democracy. We know that our cousins, with stronger laws and restrictions, have far fewer gun related fatalities.

And when you ban cars, people don't die on the roads.

True, but no one is suggesting a ban on all guns. And when you significantly strengthen gun laws fewer people die by guns without eliminating the right.

Hey! Words!

Yes. Rational arguments are formed from them...and your posts are largely comprised of them as well.

 

[Stripe]

Which is understood if unless you pull a sentence out of context.

Nope. Your words, remember? You equated guns with less safety, but the US has more guns and a not-so-different murder rate.

This makes your assertion challengeable, and its failure is found in that you take a statistic for "gun-related violence" in a society that has police-involved shootings and problems with suicide by gun, and compare that to societies that have very few weapons. The murder rates are fairly even, which takes away from your argument against guns.

Here's the context again.

See?

No one is suggesting a ban on all guns.

That's nice. Did you notice that my assertion was a conditional?

When you significantly strengthen gun laws fewer people die by guns.

When you significantly strengthen car laws, fewer people die in cars.

Rational arguments are formed from them.

We'll be the judge of that.

 

[Ktoyou]

Nope. Your words, remember? You equated guns with less safety, but the US has more guns and a not-so-different murder rate.

This makes your assertion challengeable, and its failure is found in that you take a statistic for "gun-related violence" in a society that has police-involved shootings and problems with suicide by gun, and compare that to societies that have very few weapons. The murder rates are fairly even, which takes away from your argument against guns.

See?

That's nice. Did you notice that my assertion was a conditional?

When you significantly strengthen car laws, fewer people die in cars.



We'll be the judge of that.

Yes! I agree! The suicide use has nothing to do with crime and violent acts. It is just part of American culture, which champions the individual, even the freedom to not be. It is very existential!

murder-killing should be only when you don't like it, or want it

 

[Town Heretic]

Nope.

You're wrong, which is why I supplied the whole of the context around it.

You equated guns with less safety, but the US has more guns and a not-so-different murder rate.

Rather, I noted some guns inherently increase the likelihood of mass murder.

This makes your assertion challengeable, and its failure is found in that you take a statistic for "gun-related violence" in a society that has police-involved shootings and problems with suicide by gun, and compare that to societies that have very few weapons. The murder rates are fairly even, which takes away from your argument against guns.

What I've noted is that mass murder by guns is dramatically impacted by laws relating to assault weapons, for one thing. And that countries where those stronger laws and requirements exist do a better job of protecting their public from gun violence. You may feel that people will simply choose spatulas to accomplish the same end, but there's no real way to sustain that. And we know people won't kill dozens of people with a lesser implement in moments.

As to rates, looking at data from within the past few years for some of our Western Industrial democratic cousins.

Murders per 100k

Norway .51
Netherlands .55
Spain .63
Italy .67
Greece .75
Denmark .98
Sweden 1
Germany 1.1
U.K. 1.2
France 1.3
Finland 1.4
Canada 1.6
U.S. 5.3

When you significantly strengthen car laws, fewer people die in cars.

Of course they do. And stronger gun laws will lead to a reduction in gun violence and mass murder, because there really aren't many ways to accomplish mass murder that require little to no expertise and which can be transported

 

[Ktoyou]

Some say that some guns are born bad. You ever heard anyone say this?

 

[Town Heretic]

Some say that some guns are born bad. You ever heard anyone say this?

Hadn't, but I agree after a fashion. Some guns are designed to no good or justifiable purpose. I have the same contempt for them that my grandfather did watching idiots going "hunting" with shotguns they fired like quick draw artists.