New Zealand gunmen kill 49 people at two mosques

[jgarden]

Soviets? Afghanistan?

Americans? Viet Nam?

Afghanistan and Vietnam were both 3rd world, largely rural nations - both had a long history of conflict, largely in the form of "guerrilla" wars against an outside invader - where the natural terrain (mountainous, jungles) was used to their advantage!

Both nations were also engaged in "proxy wars," whereby major foreign powers were supplying 1 side with weapons, training and intelligence in an attempt to dramatically improve their combat performance!

Neither Afghanistan nor Vietnam are in any way analogous to the scenario that was being described, where groups of lightly armed American civilans would be pitted against the might of the US military!

 

[jgarden]

99% of which are black on black

Which has a negligible black population

indeed it did

The overwhelming majority of mass shootings in America are perpetrated by angry and/or mentally disturbed, alienated "white" males!

"Blacks" tend to be caught in a cycle of poverty and have few of the advantages available to many of their "white" counterparts - there is no reason to believe well-educated, employed, middle class "blacks" are any more prone to gun violence than the general population!

 

[jgarden]

The facts will be coming out soon and I am sure you will be first in line to defend the attacks on the civil rights by those within the Obama administration. Can you spell F-I-S-A?

We also had years of Trump perpetuating the "birther" myth, assuring the American public that he was continually on the brink of releasing incriminating information that would prove once and for all that President Obama was not born in the US!

How well did the military/industrial complex do during the French revolution?

The conditions that existed in the 1790's are not about to repeat themselves in the 21stC - at least not anytime soon!

Contrary to popular beliefs, most revolts and revolutions are not spontaneous, but triggered by those educated radicals capable of articulating to the "unwashed" masses a different vision of society!

 

[ok doser]

`
Detroit Michigan averages at least 1 gun related homicide a day ...

99% of which are black on black ...

The overwhelming majority of mass shootings in America are perpetrated by angry and/or mentally disturbed, alienated "white" males!

not in detroit

 

[Jacob]

Senseless evil.

http://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/multi...oting-attack-zealand-mosque/story?id=61699679


At least 49 people were killed and dozens more injured in mass shootings at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, Friday.

The shootings, carried out by at least one gunman, were categorized as a terrorist attack.

senseless

 

[Idolater]

senseless

In the US, the top ten mass shootings all time were all murder suicides. These people all had already decided to kill themselves, and then murderously decided furthermore to murder some people right before committing suicide.

They're part of the reason why gun control makes no sense, and why therefore gun control's opposite, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, must be correct. You can't bring the horse back inside by closing the barn door after it runs off.

If your close family is ever imperiled because of one of these murderous suicides a service rifle or carbine is the single best thing that you could have, with lots of loaded super maximum high capacity ammunition magazines. At least you give your kin a puncher's chance.

You are a factor in how the thing turns out. Unarmed, how it turns out is up to the murderous suicide. How do they want it to turn out? That's how it's going to turn out, when nobody else is armed.

And there's a reason every military commander on the earth agrees that service rifles and carbines are the best weapon that their own troops can carry, because they are. If you carry the best weapon a troop can carry, then you can affect the outcome of a murderous suicide's plan for their last day alive. You can ruin their plan. You can at least give innocent people a puncher's chance.

All you need to do is carry a service rifle or service carbine, and know how to shoot it. It's really easy to learn to shoot it, that's part of why it's the superlative weapon the world round for individual troops to carry, it's easy to learn to shoot. It shoots easily at distances, and its rounds travel fast enough to penetrate most protective gear that other people might wear, like how some of the murderous suicides we've seen sometimes have been wearing.

Most handguns wouldn't penetrate all protective gear, but rifles and carbines mostly do, so if the next murderous suicide similarly gears up, a service rifle or carbine is the right defensive weapon, and most handguns are not.

 

[Jacob]

In the US, the top ten mass shootings all time were all murder suicides. These people all had already decided to kill themselves, and then murderously decided furthermore to murder some people right before committing suicide.

They're part of the reason why gun control makes no sense, and why therefore gun control's opposite, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, must be correct. You can't bring the horse back inside by closing the barn door after it runs off.

If your close family is ever imperiled because of one of these murderous suicides a service rifle or carbine is the single best thing that you could have, with lots of loaded super maximum high capacity ammunition magazines. At least you give your kin a puncher's chance.

You are a factor in how the thing turns out. Unarmed, how it turns out is up to the murderous suicide. How do they want it to turn out? That's how it's going to turn out, when nobody else is armed.

And there's a reason every military commander on the earth agrees that service rifles and carbines are the best weapon that their own troops can carry, because they are. If you carry the best weapon a troop can carry, then you can affect the outcome of a murderous suicide's plan for their last day alive. You can ruin their plan. You can at least give innocent people a puncher's chance.

All you need to do is carry a service rifle or service carbine, and know how to shoot it. It's really easy to learn to shoot it, that's part of why it's the superlative weapon the world round for individual troops to carry, it's easy to learn to shoot. It shoots easily at distances, and its rounds travel fast enough to penetrate most protective gear that other people might wear, like how some of the murderous suicides we've seen sometimes have been wearing.

Most handguns wouldn't penetrate all protective gear, but rifles and carbines mostly do, so if the next murderous suicide similarly gears up, a service rifle or carbine is the right defensive weapon, and most handguns are not.

I have no training with any of these. I simply believe that to kill a lot of people indeterminately can only be senseless.

 

[ok doser]

I have no training with any of these. I simply believe that to kill a lot of people indeterminately can only be senseless.

and you're right

the problem is that too many morons in this country think that the answer to senseless shootings by the guilty is the senseless disarming of the innocent

 

[Jacob]

and you're right

the problem is that too many morons in this country think that the answer to senseless shootings by the guilty is the senseless disarming of the innocent

I don't know what country you are talking about, and I don't know if my gun rights have been restored.

 

[Idolater]

I have no training with any of these.

That's too bad.

I simply believe that to kill a lot of people indeterminately can only be senseless.

idk what you mean by "indeterminately." They determined to kill apparently as many people as they could before killing themselves. You know, like Hitler.

 

[JPPT1974]

and you're right

the problem is that too many morons in this country think that the answer to senseless shootings by the guilty is the senseless disarming of the innocent

Yeah as really you got a huge point there. As tell that to Chicago. Guns fall into the wrong hands instead of those that are in the innocent. It is not the guns itself but the person who is or is not a wacko.

 

[Idolater]

I have no training with any of these. I simply believe that to kill a lot of people indeterminately can only be senseless.

That's too bad.
idk what you mean by "indeterminately." They determined to kill apparently as many people as they could before killing themselves. You know, like Hitler.

The worst mass shooters in the US were all murderous suicides. People who had concluded to end their lives by their own hands. Whether they first thought murder as many people as possible, then about how that would be best achieved if suicide at the end is an option; or whether they first thought suicide and only then 'figgered' might as well kill a bunch of people on my way out, we can only guess. We know they concluded to end their lives by their own hands (including 'suicide by cop').

Kamikazes killed as many as possible while killing themselves. The worst mass shooters in the US were like Kamikazes in this regard. 9/11 was Kamikazes.

The operative clause in the Second Amendment is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It means, and it's spoken directly to the Federal government, which has since officially incorporated this Amendment against all the states, it means "don't meddle in gun markets," and it means that we can't be harassed by police for carrying weapons, and it means that we are all authorized to carry guns everywhere we go, with exceptions that apply to LEOs only. Meaning, if police officers can't carry guns, then and only then is it permitted to forbid any American civilian from carrying guns also.

The very worst things that humans have ever done to humans is associated with cases where the right of the people to keep and bear arms has been infringed, where gun markets were meddled in, where police harassed civilian people with guns and civilian people who wanted guns, where only police and military were authorized to carry guns anywhere and civilians are restricted from or forbidden from doing so.

The US service rifle is the M-16 (with various suffixes), and the US service carbine is the M-4 (also with different suffixes). The US service rifle used to be the M-14, and before that, during WWII, the US service rifle was the M-1 Garand. The US service carbine was the M-1 Carbine then, and though they are named similarly, the Garand and the Carbine are not different versions of the same gun, they did not even share ammunition like the M-16 and M-4 do today.

During and after WWII Americans could buy as many M-1 Garands or M-1 Carbines as they wanted to, and could carry them wherever they wanted, with few exceptions.

When you examine data, gun data and murder data is unrelated. If you roll dice and flip a coin at the same time, there is no pattern between when you flip heads or tails and which numbers come up on the dice. There is not pattern. That's what gun data and murder data do. There is no pattern there either, and that definitively does mean that gun control does not improve murder rates, and that also having civilians awash in plenty of guns will also not worsen murder rates---both those things are absolutely true.

 

[Idolater]

...People who had concluded to end their lives by their own hands....

His life was horrifically impacted by a murderous suicide. Now he's taken his own life, six years later, after studying the science of murderous suicide for years.

https://us.cnn.com/2019/04/04/health/jeremy-richman-sandy-hook-dad-brain-science/index.html

 

[Jacob]

That's too bad.
idk what you mean by "indeterminately." They determined to kill apparently as many people as they could before killing themselves. You know, like Hitler.

I don't know like Hitler, but they determined to do a lot and may have done some that they were not determining to do, and it is sad that so many people have died. I am simply saying that with the kind of thing that occurred here it is obvious that it was not the case of someone having killed someone else (murder) and needing to be put to death for it (if we still do something like that in the new covenant or in light of the gospel).

 

[Jacob]

​

The worst mass shooters in the US were all murderous suicides. People who had concluded to end their lives by their own hands. Whether they first thought murder as many people as possible, then about how that would be best achieved if suicide at the end is an option; or whether they first thought suicide and only then 'figgered' might as well kill a bunch of people on my way out, we can only guess. We know they concluded to end their lives by their own hands (including 'suicide by cop').

Kamikazes killed as many as possible while killing themselves. The worst mass shooters in the US were like Kamikazes in this regard. 9/11 was Kamikazes.

The operative clause in the Second Amendment is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It means, and it's spoken directly to the Federal government, which has since officially incorporated this Amendment against all the states, it means "don't meddle in gun markets," and it means that we can't be harassed by police for carrying weapons, and it means that we are all authorized to carry guns everywhere we go, with exceptions that apply to LEOs only. Meaning, if police officers can't carry guns, then and only then is it permitted to forbid any American civilian from carrying guns also.

The very worst things that humans have ever done to humans is associated with cases where the right of the people to keep and bear arms has been infringed, where gun markets were meddled in, where police harassed civilian people with guns and civilian people who wanted guns, where only police and military were authorized to carry guns anywhere and civilians are restricted from or forbidden from doing so.

The US service rifle is the M-16 (with various suffixes), and the US service carbine is the M-4 (also with different suffixes). The US service rifle used to be the M-14, and before that, during WWII, the US service rifle was the M-1 Garand. The US service carbine was the M-1 Carbine then, and though they are named similarly, the Garand and the Carbine are not different versions of the same gun, they did not even share ammunition like the M-16 and M-4 do today.

During and after WWII Americans could buy as many M-1 Garands or M-1 Carbines as they wanted to, and could carry them wherever they wanted, with few exceptions.

When you examine data, gun data and murder data is unrelated. If you roll dice and flip a coin at the same time, there is no pattern between when you flip heads or tails and which numbers come up on the dice. There is not pattern. That's what gun data and murder data do. There is no pattern there either, and that definitively does mean that gun control does not improve murder rates, and that also having civilians awash in plenty of guns will also not worsen murder rates---both those things are absolutely true.

I guess I don't have the luxury of wishing guns had never been created.

 

[Town Heretic]

I guess I don't have the luxury of wishing guns had never been created.

No, no we don't. I'm not sure what Idol said (it looked like a lot) but if he told you that every country like us that does away with guns like the AR-15 is a lot safer and that many of them have had those laws in place for decades without falling prey to evil regimes, well then, he told you right.

If not, I just did.

 

[Jacob]

No, no we don't. I'm not sure what Idol said (it looked like a lot) but if he told you that every country like us that does away with guns like the AR-15 is a lot safer and that many of them have had those laws in place for decades without falling prey to evil regimes, well then, he told you right.

If not, I just did.

I don't understand it.