New International PerVersion

[Jason0047]

The king would not "own" the agreement between two different parties. That is not how legal contacts function. So when we consider what is said here the reference would not be in regard to any agreement which God owns:

"After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise" (Num.14:34).​

The word "my" cannot apply to anything other than God's "breach of promise." This mistranslation has God breaking His promise and we both know that God does not lie so it is impossible that He could ever break a promise.



Not my interpretation, but instead even the translators of the King James version of the Bible depended on experts in other languages, in this case Hebrew.

And the meaning which the Hebrew experts place of the word translated "my breach of promise" is "opposition, alienation, enmity"(Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon).

There is nothing inherent in that definition which even hints of anything having to do with a promise, much less a "breach of promise."

So the translators of the KJB made an error when they translated Numbers 14:34 and any effort to defend that interpretation is an effort to impunge the integrity of the Lord. In other words, anyone who is defending that translation is doing nothing less than promoting the idea that God will break his promises and therefore lie.

Of course you will continue in your effort to defend that translation since you have too much invested in the idea that the King James version of the Bible is without error.

Not going to endlessly debate this with you. If you do not accept my intial explanation then you are never going to get it, my friend. You believe God's Word has errors and there is nothing that will convince you otherwise. Let's move on.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Let me rephrase it so that you might understand it a little better.

For example:

Let's say there is a king who is about to marry a queen from another country. The king promises this queen that he will never leave her if she is faithful to him. That is a promise that he will never break. So the King being faithful to her is based upon the condition that the queen must be faithful to him. So the king draws up a contract that stipulates these marriage conditions. That if she is faithful, he will not put her away (i.e. divorce her). The contract page that the king draws up for the king divorcing her is called "The Breach of Promise." The contract page that says that king promises to be faithful to her is "The King's Promise of His Faithfulness."

The king owns the contract page titled: "The Breach of Promise" which describes the conditions of the marriage of whereby if she is unfaithful, she would in effect "breach the King's promise." So she will know the King's "breach of promise" if she is unfaithful to him. In other words, she will know the king's punishment if she violates the contract page titled the "Breach of Promise" (Which is owned by the King).

So it's not that the King broke his promise to her if she is unfaithful, but it is the King's condition (that he owns) that says he will divorce her is she breaches his contract by her being unfaithful.

For words do not have straight jackets placed upon them with only one meaning that you define alone. The world does not revolve around your interpretation of how words are defined or interpreted. For men like us can always be wrong. But God and His Word can never be wrong. For if there is one thing that you can trust in this life is that God's Word is always faithful and true. It is perfect and without error because God is perfect and without error. For if God provided an imperfect means of communication to us, it reflect badly upon his perfect, good, and holy character.

For God provided His Word for us today and God doesn't make mistakes.

Although it is indeed true that some of God's promises are conditional, Salvation is NEVER conditional.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Not going to endlessly debate this with you. If you do not accept my intial explanation then you are never going to get it, my friend. You believe God's Word has errors and there is nothing that will convince you otherwise. Let's move on.

You are never going to get it until you realize that the KJB is not without error. You confuse "God's word" with a translation of God's word.

They are not the same but you cannot tell the difference!

 

[glorydaz]

Gonna have to agree with you on this one. God never broke his promise to Israel. He never divorced Israel. They are God's promised people that will one day be grafted back into God's program (By them accepting the Messiah) during the End Times.

Yes, He did.

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.​

He bought her back.


[/INDENT]Hosea 3:1-5
Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine. So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley: And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee. For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.[/INDENT]

 

[Jabin]

In other words, does not God own or set the parameters for the punishment for those who break His promises? This is what is meant by the phrase "ye shall know my breach of promise", i.e. They shall know God's punishment.

First, no one can break someone else's promise.
Second, the KJV makes God into a Liar (to the modern reader).
Third, your reasoning is always tortured tortured, isn't it?

 

[nikolai_42]

God's Word is a part of Him. It's not the entirety of God but is important part of how God communicates to us. Sort of like how my voice or my written thoughts is a part of me, but it is not the entirety of me. But make no mistake, though; You can't separate the Word of God from salvation. God always operates within the bounds within His Holy Word. Yes, God draws and regenerates a person with His Spirit but God uses His Word to as a part of this process. You cannot. I repeat you cannot have faith in the gospel without the Word of God. Not going to happen. God always uses His Word as a means whereby someone will have a true faith.

For Jesus quoted Scripture all the time. Why did he do that? The apostles used the Old Testament Scriptures to preach the gospel, too. Why would they do that?

Hearing the word superficially (like the Pharisees did) doesn't mean you have the word internally. That "hearing" requires the Word to work in you. All that is prerequisite to the preaching of the word externally or it is fruitless. Faith comes by being made able to hear and you are made able to hear by the Word active internally. Again, the Pharisees had the scriptures (as Jesus said) but they didn't have the Word dwelling in them. Therefore, they couldn't hear.

 

[Truster]

Hearing the word superficially (like the Pharisees did) doesn't mean you have the word internally. That "hearing" requires the Word to work in you. All that is prerequisite to the preaching of the word externally or it is fruitless. Faith comes by being made able to hear and you are made able to hear by the Word active internally. Again, the Pharisees had the scriptures (as Jesus said) but they didn't have the Word dwelling in them. Therefore, they couldn't hear.

…'For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance;''

 

[Jason0047]

Hearing the word superficially (like the Pharisees did) doesn't mean you have the word internally. That "hearing" requires the Word to work in you. All that is prerequisite to the preaching of the word externally or it is fruitless. Faith comes by being made able to hear and you are made able to hear by the Word active internally. Again, the Pharisees had the scriptures (as Jesus said) but they didn't have the Word dwelling in them. Therefore, they couldn't hear.

I never denied that the Spirit is an essential part of a person's regeneration.

But you must know that in the Parable of the Sower the Word of God was sown in a person's heart. So a person cannot just hear the Word only, but they must accept it into their heart. This process involves God (of course). For I never denied that the Spirit and the Word are separate. I never said that you can have regeneration without the Spirit. The two are inseparable. The Word and the Spirit are are tied together. But that does not address my point. You still cannot have salvation without the Word of God for the average adult person. The only exception to this rule is babies and or those who are mentally handicapped. For where there is no law, sin is not imputed. However, for everyone else, they need the Word of God and the gospel to be saved. God does not save people without Him using His Holy Written Word. Oh, and yes. God regenerates the believer by His Spirit, too. For...

(a) Jesus said we are born of the Spirit. (And):
(b) Jesus said we are born of water (i.e. the Word), too.

 

[Jason0047]

Yes, He did.

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.​

God has never divorced Israel.

Now, the Lord has let Israel play the whore and fall into captivity of her own choosing, but he never had forsaken her as a Husband. For God has never divorced Israel nor has He let Israel fall by the way side completely. How so?

Well, in Jeremiah chapter 3, using a jarring metaphor, Jeremiah compares Israel's spiritual disloyalty to an adulterous woman who has been put away by the husband whom she betrayed. The prophet then asks a biting question, "After she leaves him and marries another man, may he return to her again?" (Jeremiah 3:1) The unspoken answer is that he cannot. Deuteronomy 24:1-4 states that the original husband may never come back to his twice-divorced wife. So it would have been impossible for God to divorce Israel and then re-marry her because it would have broken His own Law.

In fact, we learn that Jeremiah's purpose in using this parable is two-fold. First, the prophet wishes to vividly illustrate Israel's spiritual disloyalty to its Creator. Second, and most important, unlike the twice-estranged wife whose original husband cannot return to her, the prophet appeals to the Jewish people to repent and proclaims that it is their sacred mandate to be restored as God's chosen people. What is impossible with the forsaken woman is the destiny for the children of Israel. Let's look at the entire verse in context:

They say,

"If a man divorces his wife, and she goes from him and becomes another man's, may he return to her again?" Would not that land be greatly polluted? But you have played the harlot with many lovers; "Yet return to Me," says the Lord." ~ (Jeremiah 3:1)​

The central feature of the prophet's exhortation that some people overlook appears at the very end of the verse,

" 'Yet return to Me', says the Lord."​

Jeremiah makes this plea five times throughout the chapter. The message conveyed by the prophet is clear: The mercy and compassion of the Almighty is far beyond the scope of man's comprehension.

Whereas the betrayed husband would never take back his adulterous wife, our merciful God will forgive His wayward nation. While the human husband would never forgive his cheating wife, God will forgive his adulterous nation. In these moving passages, Jeremiah outlines the path to reconciliation with the Almighty. In contrast to the enraged husband who would never allow his unfaithful wife to return, God will embrace his penitent people.

What must Israel do to reconcile with her Maker?

Just cry out to Me, "My Father, you are the Master of my youth!" (Jeremiah 3:4)​

Yet how can this be? Will God's wrath not be kindled forever against His nation? Jeremiah responds with a rhetorical question.

"Will He remain angry forever? Will He keep it to eternity?" ~ (Jeremiah 3:5)​

The Almighty's answer follows with a comforting oath promising Israel an eternal destiny and permanent union with the Almighty.

"Return, O backsliding children," says the Lord, "for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion." ~ (Jeremiah 3:14)​

The central message of the third chapter remains: The fate of disloyal Israel stands in stark contrast to an unfaithful wife.

Whereas the adulterous woman may never return to her former husband, Jeremiah beckons the Jewish people to return to the Almighty, and assures them of their eternal destiny with the Almighty.

Yet, by what means can the Jewish people return to the Almighty?

Well, if your truly interested, you can read on in Jeremiah chapter 7, which answers this question as he outlines for his disobedient nation in how to restore their relationship with God.

In addition, it is also important to note that in the New Testament, we learn in Romans 11:1-5 that God did NOT divorce Israel, too...

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."​

For Israel shall be saved.

Romans 11:25-27

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."​

He bought her back.

Hosea 3:1-5
Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine. So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley: And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee. For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.​

Although there are parallels between Hosea and Gomer in relation to God and Israel, there is a point of taking the parallel too far. This is just simply talking about Hosea and Gomer's situation and not God and Israel's situation. For God is so much more long suffering and forgiving than any man or husband.


Source Used:
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/articles/divorced-israel.html

 

[George Affleck]

For God does not make mistakes; And He tells us within His Word that His Holy words are perfect and that they would be preserved for all generations.

You're right, the lack of a clear doctrine of the preservation of the Scriptures is the essence of the problem. It is a 'fundamental' issue that Satan has convinced many is simply a 'personal' preference.

Few today seriously ask the question; "Which version has God authorized for use in my language?" They pick the one that suits their taste, the same way Eve picked fruit.

God deposited, at a time when the English language was fully formed and at its best and when the existing manuscripts of His choosing were purest, His pure Word to English speaking people. If it is in error it goes to His integrity - "Yea, hath God said...?".

 

[glorydaz]

God has never divorced Israel.

Now, the Lord has let Israel play the whore and fall into captivity of her own choosing, but he never had forsaken her as a Husband. For God has never divorced Israel nor has He let Israel fall by the way side completely. How so?

Well, in Jeremiah chapter 3, using a jarring metaphor, Jeremiah compares Israel's spiritual disloyalty to an adulterous woman who has been put away by the husband whom she betrayed. The prophet then asks a biting question, "After she leaves him and marries another man, may he return to her again?" (Jeremiah 3:1) The unspoken answer is that he cannot. Deuteronomy 24:1-4 states that the original husband may never come back to his twice-divorced wife. So it would have been impossible for God to divorce Israel and then re-marry her because it would have broken His own Law.

In fact, we learn that Jeremiah's purpose in using this parable is two-fold. First, the prophet wishes to vividly illustrate Israel's spiritual disloyalty to its Creator. Second, and most important, unlike the twice-estranged wife whose original husband cannot return to her, the prophet appeals to the Jewish people to repent and proclaims that it is their sacred mandate to be restored as God's chosen people. What is impossible with the forsaken woman is the destiny for the children of Israel. Let's look at the entire verse in context:

They say,

"If a man divorces his wife, and she goes from him and becomes another man's, may he return to her again?" Would not that land be greatly polluted? But you have played the harlot with many lovers; "Yet return to Me," says the Lord." ~ (Jeremiah 3:1)​

The central feature of the prophet's exhortation that some people overlook appears at the very end of the verse,

" 'Yet return to Me', says the Lord."​

Jeremiah makes this plea five times throughout the chapter. The message conveyed by the prophet is clear: The mercy and compassion of the Almighty is far beyond the scope of man's comprehension.

Whereas the betrayed husband would never take back his adulterous wife, our merciful God will forgive His wayward nation. While the human husband would never forgive his cheating wife, God will forgive his adulterous nation. In these moving passages, Jeremiah outlines the path to reconciliation with the Almighty. In contrast to the enraged husband who would never allow his unfaithful wife to return, God will embrace his penitent people.

What must Israel do to reconcile with her Maker?

Just cry out to Me, "My Father, you are the Master of my youth!" (Jeremiah 3:4)​

Yet how can this be? Will God's wrath not be kindled forever against His nation? Jeremiah responds with a rhetorical question.

"Will He remain angry forever? Will He keep it to eternity?" ~ (Jeremiah 3:5)​

The Almighty's answer follows with a comforting oath promising Israel an eternal destiny and permanent union with the Almighty.

"Return, O backsliding children," says the Lord, "for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion." ~ (Jeremiah 3:14)​

The central message of the third chapter remains: The fate of disloyal Israel stands in stark contrast to an unfaithful wife.

Whereas the adulterous woman may never return to her former husband, Jeremiah beckons the Jewish people to return to the Almighty, and assures them of their eternal destiny with the Almighty.

Yet, by what means can the Jewish people return to the Almighty?

Well, if your truly interested, you can read on in Jeremiah chapter 7, which answers this question as he outlines for his disobedient nation in how to restore their relationship with God.

In addition, it is also important to note that in the New Testament, we learn in Romans 11:1-5 that God did NOT divorce Israel, too...

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."​

For Israel shall be saved.

Romans 11:25-27

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."​

Although there are parallels between Hosea and Gomer in relation to God and Israel, there is a point of taking the parallel too far. This is just simply talking about Hosea and Gomer's situation and not God and Israel's situation. For God is so much more long suffering and forgiving than any man or husband.


Source Used:
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/articles/divorced-israel.html

I'm glad to see you can still google. :chuckle:

According to the Law, God had to give Israel a bill of divorce before He sent her away into dispersion. The very Law that Jesus said was given because of the hardness of their heart. Rather than explain it away and claim it never happened, you should believe it as it's written and then try to figure out why. Clue...look at the entire book of Hosea and then come back and tell me it has nothing to do with God and Israel's "situation".

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.​

God did not have Hosea take a harlot for a wife for no reason. It was to answer the dilemma in which you now find yourself when you claim there was no divorce at all.

Hosea 1:2
The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.​

Hosea 1:6-11
And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen. Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son. Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.​

Hosea 3:2-5
So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley: And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee. For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.​

 

[Jason0047]

I'm glad to see you can still google.

How did you find TOL? Did someone tell you about it? Did you have a vision? How do you find most information today? Was there ever a time you ever learned anything by what someone said here on TOL? If this is the case, then you have used Google to find information which led you to learning about what another believer has said. For not seeking out what others have written about the Word of God is to think that you have all the answers and that no other believers or teachers out there can teach you anything.

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.​

God did not have Hosea take a harlot for a wife for no reason. It was to answer the dilemma in which you now find yourself when you claim there was no divorce at all.

If a woman sends divorce papers to her husband does that mean they are automatically divorced? No. That is what God did for Israel. The Lord sent them a "bill of divorce", but Israel would have to accept that "bill of divorce", though. For if you believe that Jeremiah 3:8 is proof that God has divorced Israel then you would have a contradiction in Scripture because Jeremiah 3:14 declares that the Lord is still married to Israel. In other words, how can you divorce someone and then say you are still married to them? It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Nick M]

What difference does "come" vs. "go" make?

Is the KJV your version of choice?

Seriously? You think they mean the same thing? One has Noah leaving God because he had to "Go". The other is a shadow type the messiah where you come to him for salvation.

 

[Nick M]

When in doubt, you can always check the random-hill version.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You're right, the lack of a clear doctrine of the preservation of the Scriptures is the essence of the problem.

George, I would like you to quote your best passage from the Bible which you think proves a "preservation of the Scriptures."

Thanks!

 

[Jason0047]

I am sure you will come up an explanation that will deny the plain written meaning of Scripture, but I have already listed many Biblical reasons that support the Word of God as being perfectly preserved for our day in Post #94 on page 7 here.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3675979#post3675979

If your looking for more Scripture in defense of God's Word being perfectly preserved for our day, you may want to also check out this thread here, too.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92336

 

[glorydaz]

How did you find TOL? Did someone tell you about it? Did you have a vision? How do you find most information today? Was there ever a time you ever learned anything by what someone said here on TOL? If this is the case, then you have used Google to find information which led you to learning about what another believer has said. For not seeking out what others have written about the Word of God is to think that you have all the answers and that no other believers or teachers out there can teach you anything.

A friend told me about TOL, and when I do look at something on the web, I use discernment...I don't swallow it whole cloth. You swallowed whole cloth an article from Judaism outreach. Clearly you didn't read enough to see that it's very anti-Christian.

If a woman sends divorce papers to her husband does that mean they are automatically divorced? No. That is what God did for Israel. The Lord sent them a "bill of divorce", but Israel would have to accept that "bill of divorce", though. For if you believe that Jeremiah 3:8 is proof that God has divorced Israel then you would have a contradiction in Scripture because Jeremiah 3:14 declares that the Lord is still married to Israel. In other words, how can you divorce someone and then say you are still married to them? It doesn't make any sense.

No, the wife has no say in the matter. The husband must write a bill of divorcement before He can "send her out of his house."

Deuteronomy 24:1
When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.​

Israel was unfaithful but did not remarry...thus the husband is allowed to take her back.

Deuteronomy 24:2
And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.​

54:6
For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.​

It would be better if you read Hosea instead of googling and presenting as fact something from a Jewish outreach site. Just saying....

 

[intojoy]

A friend told me about TOL, and when I do look at something on the web, I use discernment...I don't swallow it whole cloth. You swallowed whole cloth an article from Judaism outreach. Clearly you didn't read enough to see that it's very anti-Christian.









No, the wife has no say in the matter. The husband must write a bill of divorcement before He can "send her out of his house."

Deuteronomy 24:1

When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.​

Israel was unfaithful but did not remarry...thus the husband is allowed to take her back.

Deuteronomy 24:2

And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.​

54:6

For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.​

It would be better if you read Hosea instead of googling and presenting as fact something from a Jewish outreach site. Just saying....

Yea right! Sure.


Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Jason0047]

A friend told me about TOL, and when I do look at something on the web, I use discernment...I don't swallow it whole cloth. You swallowed whole cloth an article from Judaism outreach. Clearly you didn't read enough to see that it's very anti-Christian.

First, you use the web to seek out information that is useful for you, so you are disqualified of making a judgment about me doing the same thing. That's kind of where I am coming at. In other words, take the beam out of your own eye first, etc.

Second, using a Jewish source that backs up the truth of God's Word does not mean that everything they teach is from the devil. Jews need to accept the Messiah but that does not mean they have no discernment of truth whatsoever about other portions of Scripture.

No, the wife has no say in the matter. The husband must write a bill of divorcement before He can "send her out of his house."

Deuteronomy 24:1
When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.​

Israel was unfaithful but did not remarry...thus the husband is allowed to take her back.

Deuteronomy 24:2
And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.​

54:6
For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.​

It would be better if you read Hosea instead of googling and presenting as fact something from a Jewish outreach site. Just saying....

Scripture says God hates divorce. Jesus said he only allowed divorce in the Old Testament because of the hardness of their hearts. What does that say about God? It means that God is not capable of divorcing the nation of Israel.

For God is married to Israel as a nation. God is not married to every individual that existed within Israel. Nor is God married to every group that represents Israel either. Nor is God married to a certain portion or province state of Israel, as well. What am I talking about?

Well, lets look at a little genealogy (To see where I am coming from).

Abraham:

Would be the father of a nation. This nation would be Israel.​

Isaac:

Was the son of Abraham & a type of Jesus Christ.​

Jacob: (a.k.a. Israel):

Jacob is the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. For his name is Israel.​

Later thru time, we see the nation of Israel (made up of the 12 tribes) divide into a:

1. Northern kingdom (Known as Israel)
2. Southern kingdom (Known as Judah)

Both Israel and Judah are technically one nation known as Israel. Judah is just the Southern name for South Israel. Why is this important?

Because Jeremiah 3:8 says God put away Israel and gave her a bill of divorce. What this means is that God divorced ONLY a certain portion or group of people within Israel. Not Israel itself as a whole. God only divorced the Northern Kingdom of Israel (Which was called Israel) and not the Southern Kingdom of Israel known as Judah. Judah is still Israel because they were once all one nation known as Israel and they all descended from the man known as Israel (i.e. Jacob).

So God never divorced Israel as a whole! For Jesus is a Jew, an Israelite. Jesus is from the Lion of the tribe of Judah. For salvation is of the Jews because Jesus is the King of the Jews! What this means is that God never cast away his people of which foreknew.

Romans 11:1-5

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."​

Anyways, in conclusion:

Jeremiah 3:8 is saying that God divorced the Northern Kingdom of Israel (Not the Southern Kingdom of Israel) and in Jeremiah 3:14 he was affirming to the remaining nation of Israel known as the Southern Kingdom of Judah that he was still married to them. Judah was unfaithful, as well. But God did not divorce Judah because the promised Messiah had to come thru the line of David as promised in the Scriptures. For if God divorced Israel, then we would have a broken chain or lineage for our Messiah; And that's just not possible. This is why God never divorced Israel.

Oh, and if you want to reply back. Please see this thread here:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3679201#post3679201

Thank you.
And may God bless you.

 

[glorydaz]

First, you use the web to seek out information that is useful for you, so you are disqualified of making a judgment about me doing the same thing. That's kind of where I am coming at. In other words, take the beam out of your own eye first, etc.

Second, using a Jewish source that backs up the truth of God's Word does not mean that everything they teach is from the devil. Jews need to accept the Messiah but that does not mean they have no discernment of truth whatsoever about other portions of Scripture.



Scripture says God hates divorce. Jesus said he only allowed divorce in the Old Testament because of the hardness of their hearts. What does that say about God? It means that God is not capable of divorcing the nation of Israel.

For God is married to Israel as a nation. God is not married to every individual that existed within Israel. Nor is God married to every group that represents Israel either. Nor is God married to a certain portion or province state of Israel, as well. What am I talking about?

Well, lets look at a little genealogy (To see where I am coming from).

Abraham:

Would be the father of a nation. This nation would be Israel.​

Isaac:

Was the son of Abraham & a type of Jesus Christ.​

Jacob: (a.k.a. Israel):

Jacob is the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. For his name is Israel.​

Later thru time, we see the nation of Israel (made up of the 12 tribes) divide into a:

1. Northern kingdom (Known as Israel)
2. Southern kingdom (Known as Judah)

Both Israel and Judah are technically one nation known as Israel. Judah is just the Southern name for South Israel. Why is this important?

Because Jeremiah 3:8 says God put away Israel and gave her a bill of divorce. What this means is that God divorced ONLY a certain portion or group of people within Israel. Not Israel itself as a whole. God only divorced the Northern Kingdom of Israel (Which was called Israel) and not the Southern Kingdom of Israel known as Judah. Judah is still Israel because they were once all one nation known as Israel and they all descended from the man known as Israel (i.e. Jacob).

So God never divorced Israel as a whole! For Jesus is a Jew, an Israelite. Jesus is from the Lion of the tribe of Judah. For salvation is of the Jews because Jesus is the King of the Jews! What this means is that God never cast away his people of which foreknew.

Romans 11:1-5

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."​

Anyways, in conclusion:

Jeremiah 3:8 is saying that God divorced the Northern Kingdom of Israel (Not the Southern Kingdom of Israel) and in Jeremiah 3:14 he was affirming to the remaining nation of Israel known as the Southern Kingdom of Judah that he was still married to them. Judah was unfaithful, as well. But God did not divorce Judah because the promised Messiah had to come thru the line of David as promised in the Scriptures. For if God divorced Israel, then we would have a broken chain or lineage for our Messiah; And that's just not possible. This is why God never divorced Israel.

Oh, and if you want to reply back. Please see this thread here:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3679201#post3679201

Thank you.
And may God bless you.

You're a total waste of time, Jason. :nono: