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[Jason0047]

...the King James Bible is in error...

I've already explained it. You are only seeing error where none exist to prove your position. For how would you view the Word of God if the Lord told you in person that the preserved Word of God that we have today for our generation does not have mistakes in it? What would you do? Keep looking for errors?

For God does not make mistakes; And He tells us within His Word that His Holy words are perfect and that they would be preserved for all generations.

 

[Jason0047]

So (for instance) the Muslims in the Middle East that are finding Christ in huge numbers - not because anyone spoke to them, but because Christ appeared to them in a dream - they don't really believe?

These people who see Christ are not converted by the dream but given the faith to believe and they seek out missionaries or people they know will have the answers and they find the scriptures and Christ. It wasn't the bible that made them believe, it was God alone.

So I don't think you are correct in what you say. I don't believe that's what scripture says.

I am aware of tribes people and how they had received visions beforehand of the missionaries bring the Word. However, the missionaries did not come without a Bible. These tribes people did not have the gospel preached to them by a vision. If that was the case, then God would not need us to preach the gospel to all nations.

Romans 10:14

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I've already explained it.

Jason, my friend, where have you addressed this verse?:

"Blessed be the LORD, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by the hand of Moses his servant" (1 Ki.8:56).​

I searched this thread and I never saw you address it. Just give me the Post # on this thread where you addressed it and we can discuss what you said.

 

[Jason0047]

Romans 10:14

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?​

Romans 10:14 and Romans 10:17 sums it up nicely about how we get our faith.

However, also please consider these passages, as well.

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you (1 Peter 1:23-25).

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (Galatians 6:2).

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God (1 Corinthians 1:18).

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4).

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation (Romans 10:10).

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead (Luke 16:29-31).

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience (Luke 8:11-15).

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, (Ephesians 5:25-26).

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5).

 

[Jason0047]

Jason, my friend, where have you addressed this verse?:

"Blessed be the LORD, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by the hand of Moses his servant" (1 Ki.8:56).​

I searched this thread and I never saw you address it. Just give me the Post # on this thread where you addressed it and we can discuss what you said.

I did not reply because you did not explain the problem. For I did not catch the reason why you think 1 Kings 8:56 is a problem (even with the bolded words). Please explain why you think there is in error in it and I will do my best to explain it to you. But please know it is a one time explanation. There will be no feedback loop debates. Not going to play that game again, my friend. You either accept the truth of God's Word that it is perfect or you don't (For at the heart of this discussion it is an issue of your faith in God and His Word and it has nothing to do with proving if there an error within the Scriptures).

Anyways, go ahead with the explanation of why you think the Word of God is flawed here.

 

[intojoy]

Disobedience of God's Laws without repentance (followed by death) never leads to eternal life but only punishment in the after life.

Jude 1:4-7

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.​

2 Peter 2:6-10

6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; The Godly will Be Delivered

7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds; )

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punishedrofane and Blasphemous Seducers

10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. ​

2 Peter 2:12-13

"...and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time..."​

In fact, I double dog dare you to slowly read the rest of the chapter here.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/2_peter/2.htm

Don't just read it with OSAS glasses. Just read it from an objective standpoint.

Dude, it's me ur talking to - child please!

We've been thru this before, psalm 90 says that the generation that died in the wilderness died saved suckah.. Come off your holy wagon.
They probably ended up more obedient than you think you are after they received their .. Uuhm physical punishment - physical death, not eternal damnation.. Come on son catch up!!


Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Jabin]

We've been thru this before, psalm 90 says that the generation that died in the wilderness died saved suckah.. Come off your holy wagon.
They probably ended up more obedient than you think you are after they received their .. Uuhm physical punishment - physical death, not eternal damnation.. Come on son catch up!!

Sometimes having a devil's advocate around can stimulate thought. But, come on, you don't have act like Satan's paid spokesdemon.

Those who died in the wilderness went to Hell. Not being allowed into the Promised Land is more than just geography. It's representative of them not being allowed into Heaven. God said they weren't his.

But, that doesn't jive with your satanic religion that Paradise is promised to antichrists. You're wrong, Intolies, when they turned from God, they turned from salvation, not to salvation.

 

[Jason0047]

We've been thru this before, psalm 90 says that the generation that died in the wilderness died saved suckah.. Come off your holy wagon.
They probably ended up more obedient than you think you are after they received their .. Uuhm physical punishment - physical death, not eternal damnation.. Come on son catch up!!

While it is true that Psalm 90 talks about those in the Wilderness, this chapter does not defend the notion that they went to Heaven, though. If you believe this chapter teaches as such, it would be a bit of a stretch of the imagination. For you would need to cite specific verses and cross reference them with other Scripture to prove that your case is true. But I know you can't do that. How so?

Well, Hebrews 3:7-19 gives us a clear warning from the bad example of those Jews who rebelled against God in the Wilderness.

For in the letter to the Hebrews, we see a need for steadfastness, or faithfulness, explains the exhortations found in this letter. We saw it in the first exhortation in Hebrews 2:1-4 with regard to "The Danger Of Drifting." And now we come to the second exhortation regarding "The Danger Of Departing From The Living God" in Hebrews 3:7-19.

This passage seems to follow three trains of thought:

"The Example Of Israel In The Wilderness" (vs. 7-11).
"The Danger Of Departing" (vs. 12-14).
"The Example Of Israel In The Wilderness" (vs. 15-19).

The first thing we need to understand about Israel in the wilderness is that Israel hardened their hearts. The quotation found in vs. 7-11 is from Psalm 95:7, 8, 9, 10, 11 where the Holy Spirit warned Israel not to be like their fathers in the wilderness. And the writer to the Hebrews found this warning to be just as necessary in his day.

In the wilderness, the Israelites hardened their hearts in rebelling against God. They tested (or tried) God with their lack of faith. And that is the reason they did not enter God's rest. God became angry with that generation in the wilderness because of their persistent rebellion (Psalm 106:13-33). And so in Numbers 14:22-24 and Numbers 26-35, God swore that they would not enter His rest. Of all those over the age of twenty when they left Egypt, only Joshua and Caleb entered the Promised Land. All the rest, of which there were 603,548 men, died in the wilderness. Because of their hardened hearts, Israel departed from God. They rebelled against God. And because of their rebellion, they fell short of the Canaan rest that had been promised to them.

The Danger of Departing (vs. 12-14).
Now, with this "Warning From The Wilderness" fresh in their minds, the writer next exhorts his brethren by warning them of "The Danger of Departing." And so, we need to BEWARE. You see, a believer can develop "an evil heart of unbelief." Back in v. 1, the recipients of this letter were called "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling," which means that this warning against developing a heart of unbelief is presented as a real possibility! A "believer" can become an "unbeliever"! And unbelief is produced when you are "hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."

Sin is deceitful! It promises pleasure, power and prestige. And in the short term it may seem to deliver on that promise. But such things are "passing," or temporary. Later in Hebrews 11:25, the writer talks about why Moses left the luxury of the palace of Pharaoh and says, "choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin." John warns us in 1 John 2:17 not to love the world because "the world is passing away, and the lusts of it." The rewards of sin are "passing away." They are temporary. But because sin is deceitful, it is easy for us to become "hardened," to become stubborn and not willing to heed the Word of God. It happened to Israel, and it can happen to us! And the consequence of such unbelief is "departing from the living God." As you grow in unbelief, you drift away from God. While a believer remains in fellowship with God, an unbeliever can only depart farther and farther away from God.

Source Used:
http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-hebrews-3-7-19.htm

 

[Jason0047]

So the solution is to "exhort one another daily." This is how a believer avoids becoming an unbeliever. Through mutual edification on a daily basis we can prevent the "hardening" that comes from sin's deceitfulness. And an important part of such exhortation is our assembling together (Hebrews 10:24-25; Acts 20:7). But with the need for "daily exhortation," do you think that we should be content to limit our assembling to just one service a week? Don't you think that if we have the opportunity to assemble more often that we ought to? We need to "exhort one another daily."

But this passage shows us once again the conditional nature of our participation with Christ. In v. 6, we are the house of Christ "If we hold fast the confidence and rejoicing of the hope firm to the end." And now in v. 14, we have become partakers of Christ "If we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end." Yet someone is bound to ask, "But what about the security of the believers?" Well, the "believer" does indeed enjoy the assurance of his salvation. But we've already seen that a "believer" can develop "an evil heart of unbelief." In other words, a "believer" can become an "unbeliever." Or as the writer says in v. 12, "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God." And so, when a "believer" becomes an "unbeliever" all of the promises of security and salvation there are for the "believer" no longer apply to the "unbeliever." And that is why there are so many warnings to remain faithful, including that of our Lord in Revelation 2:10, where He says "be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life."

The Example Of Israel In The Wilderness (vs. 15-19).
In fact, the danger of departing from God is so great that the writer next returns to the example of Israel in the wilderness and another appeal is made. Quoting again from Psalm 95:7-8, the writer says "Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion." Now notice that the writer applies this quotation to Christians. You see, Christians need to "hear His (God's) voice." In Hebrews 1:1-2, the writer said, "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son." And then in Hebrews 2:1-4, he returns to this theme and says, "Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will? When he says "hear His voice," he means to hear with a desire to hearken, because we too can easily harden our hearts "as in the rebellion."

And so, there is the need for Christians to believe and obey. In the case of the Israelites, who was it who rebelled? It was all of those who came out of Egypt except for Joshua and Caleb. Although they had been led by Moses and delivered from Egyptian bondage, they still rebelled. And so the point is that although we may have been delivered by Christ from the bondage of sin, rebellion is still possible even for us. In the case of the Israelites, with whom was God angry for forty years? It was with all of those who sinned. And they died in the wilderness as a result of their lack of faith. So if we become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, do you think that we will escape judgment? In the case of the Israelites, who was it that God did not allow into the Promised Land? It was those who did not obey. It was those who had developed unbelief. And so, if we disobey through unbelief, are we going to enter our promised rest?

When the apostle Paul related some of the same experiences of Israel in the wilderness, he said in 1 Corinthians 10:11, "Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come." My friends, it is for our admonition that we have such warnings as these found in our text because the deceitfulness of sin is just as strong today. They are there because the hardening of one's heart is just as dangerous today. They are there because departing from God is just as possible today. The potential for falling short of our promised rest is just as much a reality for us as it proved to be for the Israelites in the wilderness. And that is why we need to "exhort one another daily" to remain strong in the faith and to remain strong in obedience.

Source Used:
http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-hebrews-3-7-19.htm

 

[intojoy]

While it is true that Psalm 90 talks about those in the Wilderness, this chapter does not defend the notion that they went to Heaven, though. If you believe this chapter teaches as such, it would be a bit of a stretch of the imagination. For you would need to cite specific verses and cross reference them with other Scripture to prove that your case is true. But I know you can't do that. How so?

Well, Hebrews 3:7-19 gives us a clear warning from the bad example of those Jews who rebelled against God in the Wilderness.

For in the letter to the Hebrews, we see a need for steadfastness, or faithfulness, explains the exhortations found in this letter. We saw it in the first exhortation in Hebrews 2:1-4 with regard to "The Danger Of Drifting." And now we come to the second exhortation regarding "The Danger Of Departing From The Living God" in Hebrews 3:7-19.

This passage seems to follow three trains of thought:

"The Example Of Israel In The Wilderness" (vs. 7-11).
"The Danger Of Departing" (vs. 12-14).
"The Example Of Israel In The Wilderness" (vs. 15-19).

The first thing we need to understand about Israel in the wilderness is that Israel hardened their hearts. The quotation found in vs. 7-11 is from Psalm 95:7, 8, 9, 10, 11 where the Holy Spirit warned Israel not to be like their fathers in the wilderness. And the writer to the Hebrews found this warning to be just as necessary in his day.

In the wilderness, the Israelites hardened their hearts in rebelling against God. They tested (or tried) God with their lack of faith. And that is the reason they did not enter God's rest. God became angry with that generation in the wilderness because of their persistent rebellion (Psalm 106:13-33). And so in Numbers 14:22-24 and Numbers 26-35, God swore that they would not enter His rest. Of all those over the age of twenty when they left Egypt, only Joshua and Caleb entered the Promised Land. All the rest, of which there were 603,548 men, died in the wilderness. Because of their hardened hearts, Israel departed from God. They rebelled against God. And because of their rebellion, they fell short of the Canaan rest that had been promised to them.

The Danger of Departing (vs. 12-14).
Now, with this "Warning From The Wilderness" fresh in their minds, the writer next exhorts his brethren by warning them of "The Danger of Departing." And so, we need to BEWARE. You see, a believer can develop "an evil heart of unbelief." Back in v. 1, the recipients of this letter were called "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling," which means that this warning against developing a heart of unbelief is presented as a real possibility! A "believer" can become an "unbeliever"! And unbelief is produced when you are "hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."

Sin is deceitful! It promises pleasure, power and prestige. And in the short term it may seem to deliver on that promise. But such things are "passing," or temporary. Later in Hebrews 11:25, the writer talks about why Moses left the luxury of the palace of Pharaoh and says, "choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin." John warns us in 1 John 2:17 not to love the world because "the world is passing away, and the lusts of it." The rewards of sin are "passing away." They are temporary. But because sin is deceitful, it is easy for us to become "hardened," to become stubborn and not willing to heed the Word of God. It happened to Israel, and it can happen to us! And the consequence of such unbelief is "departing from the living God." As you grow in unbelief, you drift away from God. While a believer remains in fellowship with God, an unbeliever can only depart farther and farther away from God.

Source Used:
http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-hebrews-3-7-19.htm

I'm not reading all of that. But thx for admitting that the psalm demonstrates that none ahumm lost their salvation at Kadesh Barnea and that their sin there did not bring upon them eternal damnation.


Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I did not reply because you did not explain the problem. For I did not catch the reason why you think 1 Kings 8:56 is a problem (even with the bolded words). Please explain why you think there is in error in it and I will do my best to explain it to you.

According to 1 Kings 8:56 the Lord did not break any promises which He made in regard to Israel.

But this faulty translation says that He did:

"After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise" (Num.14:34; KJV).​

 

[Jason0047]

According to 1 Kings 8:56 the Lord did not break any promises which He made in regard to Israel.

But this faulty translation says that He did:

"After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise" (Num.14:34; KJV).​

The Bible has homonyms in it. Words that look similar but they have different meanings. How do we know they are different. Because of the context.

• 1 Kings 8:56 states the truth that God cannot break his promises.

• Numbers 14:34 states that the "breach of promise" is just another way of saying God's punishment (i.e. you shall know my punishment). For God owns everything. For He sets the parameters for their disobedience or what will happen if they breach His promises. For the words "breach of promise" is in context of the words "shall ye bear your iniquities" mentioned within the same verse. In other words, the Israelites who bear their iniquities shall know the punishment of the Lord. For the Lord's breach of promise is God's punishment for the sins that they committed. For the whole chapter deals with the Israelite's iniquities and their judgment.

Numbers 14:41-43
"And Moses said, Wherefore now do ye transgress the commandment of the LORD? but it shall not prosper. Go not up, for the LORD is not among you; that ye be not smitten before your enemies. For the Amalekites and the Canaanites are there before you, and ye shall fall by the sword: because ye are turned away from the LORD, therefore the LORD will not be with you."

In other words, does not God own or set the parameters for the punishment for those who break His promises? This is what is meant by the phrase "ye shall know my breach of promise", i.e. They shall know God's punishment.

There is no contradiction.

 

[glorydaz]

That has nothing to do with God making a promise. Instead, Israel committed adultery and therefore the Lord rightly gave her a bill of divorce.

That has nothing to do with the Lord breaking a promise.

Ig the Lord promises something and He does not follow through on that promise then that would mean He lied. And God cannot lie so He cannot breat His promises:

"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began" (Titus 1:2).​

I never thought I would see the day when believers would be arguing that God breaks His promises!

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?" (Num.23:19).​

And He rightly annulled His Covenant with Israel which promised blessings for obedience...no difference. What is a marriage but a Promise? Yet God divorced Israel.

I never thought I'd see the day when someone would read that verse and make such a claim. When I read this text, it's clear the people would experience God's withdrawal of the blessings He'd promised if they disobeyed Him. Perhaps you aren't familiar with the language in the KJV. God's covenant of blessings for obedience can't be ignored...what would the "knowing" be? Why would that be there if God were saying, "I'm breaking my Promise"?

Numbers 14:33-35
And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness. After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise. I the LORD have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

In other words, does not God own or set the parameters for the punishment for those who break His promises? This is what is meant by the phrase "ye shall know my breach of promise", i.e. They shall know God's punishment.

That is ridiculous!

The phrase "breach of promise" does not mean "God's punishment."

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And He rightly annulled His Covenant with Israel which promised blessings for obedience...no difference. What is a marriage but a Promise? Yet God divorced Israel.

A marriage is two promises, not one. Both partners promise to be faithful. If the wife strays it is ridiculous to say that the husband broke His promise.

But you say that since Israel was not faithful that proves that God broke His promise!!!

Again, I never thought in a million years that any believers would ever dare suggest that God breaks His promises, much less go to such lengths to try to prove that He breaks them.

 

[Jason0047]

That is ridiculous!

The phrase "breach of promise" does not mean "God's punishment."

Let me rephrase it so that you might understand it a little better.

For example:

Let's say there is a king who is about to marry a queen from another country. The king promises this queen that he will never leave her if she is faithful to him. That is a promise that he will never break. So the King being faithful to her is based upon the condition that the queen must be faithful to him. So the king draws up a contract that stipulates these marriage conditions. That if she is faithful, he will not put her away (i.e. divorce her). The contract page that the king draws up for the king divorcing her is called "The Breach of Promise." The contract page that says that king promises to be faithful to her is "The King's Promise of His Faithfulness."

The king owns the contract page titled: "The Breach of Promise" which describes the conditions of the marriage of whereby if she is unfaithful, she would in effect "breach the King's promise." So she will know the King's "breach of promise" if she is unfaithful to him. In other words, she will know the king's punishment if she violates the contract page titled the "Breach of Promise" (Which is owned by the King).

So it's not that the King broke his promise to her if she is unfaithful, but it is the King's condition (that he owns) that says he will divorce her is she breaches his contract by her being unfaithful.

For words do not have straight jackets placed upon them with only one meaning that you define alone. The world does not revolve around your interpretation of how words are defined or interpreted. For men like us can always be wrong. But God and His Word can never be wrong. For if there is one thing that you can trust in this life is that God's Word is always faithful and true. It is perfect and without error because God is perfect and without error. For if God provided an imperfect means of communication to us, it reflect badly upon his perfect, good, and holy character.

For God provided His Word for us today and God doesn't make mistakes.

 

[nikolai_42]

I am aware of tribes people and how they had received visions beforehand of the missionaries bring the Word. However, the missionaries did not come without a Bible. These tribes people did not have the gospel preached to them by a vision. If that was the case, then God would not need us to preach the gospel to all nations.

Romans 10:14

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?​

But there again, you've missed a step. One can only be saved by the gospel (with that you agreed). But to be able to actually hear the gospel, one must be quickened to it. That quickening comes by the Word of God. That doesn't necessarily mean "reading scripture". The example of Muslims coming to Christ by means of a dream doesn't mean the gospel isn't preached according to scripture - but it shows that the Word of God that opens the hearing of the recipient is not the letter. So the bible - as good as it is - is useless to a person who can't hear spiritually.

And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 5:38-40

The Pharisees had the scriptures. They thought they had eternal life in them. But they didn't. Why? They didn't have His Word in them. That is what is required for a man to come to Christ. Not the external word (the letter) but the Living Word. There must be something quickening a man before he can even approach the scriptures. So the hearing that Paul talks about in Romans 10 is spiritual hearing. Again - Isaiah was commanded to prophesy to Israel so their ears were deafened and that had to be reversed. And only those in whom the Word dwelt would receive Christ. They ALL had the scriptures.

 

[Jason0047]

God's Word is a part of Him. It's not the entirety of God but is important part of how God communicates to us. Sort of like how my voice or my written thoughts is a part of me, but it is not the entirety of me. But make no mistake, though; You can't separate the Word of God from salvation. God always operates within the bounds within His Holy Word. Yes, God draws and regenerates a person with His Spirit but God uses His Word to as a part of this process. You cannot. I repeat you cannot have faith in the gospel without the Word of God. Not going to happen. God always uses His Word as a means whereby someone will have a true faith.

For Jesus quoted Scripture all the time. Why did he do that? The apostles used the Old Testament Scriptures to preach the gospel, too. Why would they do that?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The king owns the contract page titled: "The Breach of Promise" which describes the conditions of the marriage of whereby if she is unfaithful, she would in effect "breach the King's promise."

The king would not "own" the agreement between two different parties. That is not how legal contacts function. So when we consider what is said here the reference would not be in regard to any agreement which God owns:

"After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise" (Num.14:34).​

The word "my" cannot apply to anything other than God's "breach of promise." This mistranslation has God breaking His promise and we both know that God does not lie so it is impossible that He could ever break a promise.

For words do not have straight jackets placed upon them with only one meaning that you define alone. The world does not revolve around your interpretation of how words are defined or interpreted.

Not my interpretation, but instead even the translators of the King James version of the Bible depended on experts in other languages, in this case Hebrew.

And the meaning which the Hebrew experts place of the word translated "my breach of promise" is "opposition, alienation, enmity"(Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon).

There is nothing inherent in that definition which even hints of anything having to do with a promise, much less a "breach of promise."

So the translators of the KJB made an error when they translated Numbers 14:34 and any effort to defend that interpretation is an effort to impunge the integrity of the Lord. In other words, anyone who is defending that translation is doing nothing less than promoting the idea that God will break his promises and therefore lie.

Of course you will continue in your effort to defend that translation since you have too much invested in the idea that the King James version of the Bible is without error.

 

[Jason0047]

A marriage is two promises, not one. Both partners promise to be faithful. If the wife strays it is ridiculous to say that the husband broke His promise.

But you say that since Israel was not faithful that proves that God broke His promise!!!

Again, I never thought in a million years that any believers would ever dare suggest that God breaks His promises, much less go to such lengths to try to prove that He breaks them.

Gonna have to agree with you on this one. God never broke his promise to Israel. He never divorced Israel. They are God's promised people that will one day be grafted back into God's program (By them accepting the Messiah) during the End Times.