Mystery Babylon

CherubRam

New member
Mystery Babylon is a great city.

Revelation 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.​

To see what a "great city" means, we can look at another city that was called a "great city" in the Bible:

Nineveh was called a great city because it was so large it took three days to travel through it.

Jonah 3:3
3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.​

Nineveh was called a great city because it had 120,000 people in it.

Jonah 4:11
11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?​

Nineveh is called a great city because it is large and has a lot of people in it.
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Nineveh

At this time, the total area of Nineveh comprised about 7 square kilometres (1,730 acres), and fifteen great gates penetrated its walls. An elaborate system of eighteen canals brought water from the hills to Nineveh, and several sections of a magnificently constructed aqueduct erected by Sennacherib were discovered at Jerwan, about 65 kilometres (40 mi) distant.[15] The enclosed area had more than 100,000 inhabitants (maybe closer to 150,000), about twice as many as Babylon at the time, placing it among the largest settlements worldwide.
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Now compare this to the city that many people are claiming is Mystery Babylon:
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Vatican City officially the Vatican City State is a walled enclave within the city of Rome. With an area of approximately 44 hectares (110 acres), and a population of 842, it is the smallest internationally recognized independent state in the world by both area and population.
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A population of 842?

No, that just doesn't fit.

You are smart enough to be a danger to yourself and others. Rome was a large city, the bible is not wrong. The 110 acre Vatican property was allotted to the Papacy in 1929. The Vatican is only a very small portion of what was or is Rome. Vatican Hill (Latin: Mons Vaticanus, Italian: Colle Vaticano) is a hill located across the Tiber river from the traditional seven hills of Rome. It is the location of St. Peter's Basilica. The Romans called it vaticanus ager, "Vatican territory" in the mid-5th century BC.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Rome was a large city, the bible is not wrong.
You are not talking about Rome, you are talking about the Papacy.
The Bible never calls Rome "Mystery Babylon", that is an errant interpretation.
The Papacy did not gain any power in the city of Rome until 325 CE, showing that the city of Rome was not "Mystery Babylon" (as you call the Catholic church) during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE.
The Papacy lost its power over the city of Rome in 1870 CE, removing the city of Rome from contention as "Mystery Babylon".
At this time, the only city ruled by the Papacy is Vatican City, which is too small and underpopulated to be "Mystery Babylon".

Oh and by the way, the Seventh Day Adventists have much more wrong in their eschatology than misunderstanding Mystery Babylon.

:wave2:
 

CherubRam

New member
Daniel 7:3
Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.

Alexander the Great’s four generals divided his empire and assumed control of different parts. His four generals were Lysimachus, Cassander, Seleucus, and Ptolemy.

Daniel 7:8
“While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

The little horn is Rome and its empire.

Revelation 13:1
[ The Beast out of the Sea ] The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
 

CherubRam

New member
You are not talking about Rome, you are talking about the Papacy.
The Bible never calls Rome "Mystery Babylon", that is an errant interpretation.
The Papacy did not gain any power in the city of Rome until 325 CE, showing that the city of Rome was not "Mystery Babylon" (as you call the Catholic church) during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE.
The Papacy lost its power over the city of Rome in 1870 CE, removing the city of Rome from contention as "Mystery Babylon".
At this time, the only city ruled by the Papacy is Vatican City, which is too small and underpopulated to be "Mystery Babylon".

Oh and by the way, the Seventh Day Adventists have much more wrong in their eschatology than misunderstanding Mystery Babylon.

:wave2:

It must be to much for you to keep track of.
 

KingdomRose

New member
What has to be understood of Rome being 'Mystery Babylon' is that Roman Catholic belief, in and of itself, has it's origins in Babylonian beliefs.

Where the church in Rome had become Christian, it never fully shed it's paganism. There is a reason why Catholicism is so different then that of a Bible teaching church.

They spend so much time with Mary because of their former fascination to Mithras. They believe in rites because of their dealings to their gods before. They hold to works because they had no concept of faith alone, and they have apostolic succession for no other reason than order.

The Pope's hat has pagan symbols on it for crying out loud- before Rome is Christian, they are first pagan. They do a very fine job swooning Muslims and Jews, and leave Protestants to confide in themselves.

Nobody has to 'prove' that Rome is a falsehood, she shows it all be herself.

You are correct! Anyone who has any sense of being conscious can see that what you say is true. Too many people are oblivious to facts that are everywhere to be seen...all they have to do is pay attention!

The RCC is, however, just a part of Babylon the Great. That great whore includes ALL religion that claims to represent the true God, or, the truth, but actually does not. The Bible says there is ONE faith that God accepts, and it would be the one that follows Christ according to everything he taught....not just SOME of it.

"There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, ONE FAITH, one baptism, one God and Father of all." (Ephesians 4:4-6, NASB)
 

whitestone

Well-known member
So if the Jews who were inside of Jerusalem during the siege in ad70 were not worshiping Jesus as the king,Messiah ect. and they were minting their own coins and not buying and selling with Caesars money,acknowledging Caesar as God ect. ...,,Just who were they worshiping?
 

KingdomRose

New member
That is a nice theory, but it fails when you look at what scripture actually states about Mystery Babylon being a large city instead of the assumption that it is a religion.

We're looking at APOCALYPSE, or, REVELATION. A "city" might SYMBOLIZE something else. Is there REALLY a prostitute riding on the back of a wild beast with several heads somewhere? Well, then, calling her a "city" might just be metaphorical for something else!

It is fairly obvious that this whore is Religion---the world empire of false religion, to be specific.

She is a whore that "sits on many waters," meaning many PEOPLE, as "waters" and "the sea" signify people, in Revelation (chapter 17, verse 15). She has committed fornication (spiritual fornication) with the kings of the earth---the politicians & heads of state. (Revelation 17:1,2) She has LIED to all the people and is responsible for all the blood spilled on the earth (chapter 18, verse 24).

This can't be just one city. Babylon the Great includes "many nations and tongues" (ch.17, verse 15).

And she isn't the political elements, because she sits ON the political elements. The kings of the earth "will weep and beat themselves in grief over her," because she aided them in their subjugation of the masses. She isn't the commercial part of the world either, because she kept them in business; they also wept and mourned over her destruction, "because there is no one to buy their full stock anymore," (or encourage their members to buy holiday stuff or support the military---two big moneymaking entities for the merchants). (Rev.18: 11-17)

She will go down as if she had a millstone around her neck, never to be found again (chapter 18, verse 21). This will happen fairly soon, and Jesus is admonishing everyone to "Get out of her!!!" (Rev.18: 4)
 

genuineoriginal

New member
We're looking at APOCALYPSE, or, REVELATION. A "city" might SYMBOLIZE something else. Is there REALLY a prostitute riding on the back of a wild beast with several heads somewhere? Well, then, calling her a "city" might just be metaphorical for something else!
Calling the city a woman riding on a beast is metaphorical.
Readers familiar with Bible prophecy know that "beast" in this kind of context is referring to an empire, as shown by the beasts in Daniel.

The sentence stating that the woman is a "city" is the explanation of what the metaphorical symbol represents.

Trying to make it a metaphor as well leads to nothing worthwhile.
 

CherubRam

New member
Revelation 17:5
The name written on her forehead was a mystery: Babylon the great the mother of prostitutes and of the abominations of the earth.

Babylon in Persia was called "The Gate of the gods." The English Babylon comes from Greek Babylṓn (Βαβυλών), a transliteration of the Akkadian Babili. The Babylonian name in the early 2nd millennium BC had been Babilli or Babilla, which appears to be an adaption of an unknown original non-Semitic placename. By the 1st millennium BC, it had changed to Babili under the influence of the folk etymology which traced it to bāb-ili ("Gate of gods" or "Gateway of the gods.")

Pope Gregory and Paganism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”
Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? Maybe the answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.
 

KingdomRose

New member
Calling the city a woman riding on a beast is metaphorical.
Readers familiar with Bible prophecy know that "beast" in this kind of context is referring to an empire, as shown by the beasts in Daniel.

The sentence stating that the woman is a "city" is the explanation of what the metaphorical symbol represents.

Trying to make it a metaphor as well leads to nothing worthwhile.

No. I showed you that it couldn't mean one particular city because the Great Whore was sitting on many waters, and the waters signified "peoples and crowds and NATIONS and tongues." (Rev. 17:15)

Will you pay attention?
 

RBBI

New member
Which is also what I showed in a different way, yet the gist of it is the same. I think they call that a witness. ;) Peace
 

CherubRam

New member
Do you follow the beast, pay tribute, or take the mark.

Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89, freely admits, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify.”

Again, “The Catholic Church, … by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

“Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope” (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

“Sunday is our mark of authority… the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923).
 

genuineoriginal

New member
No. I showed you that it couldn't mean one particular city because the Great Whore was sitting on many waters, and the waters signified "peoples and crowds and NATIONS and tongues." (Rev. 17:15)
It is very clear that Mystery Babylon is one particular city, why do you ignore it?
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United Nations

The United Nations is an intergovernmental organization to promote international co-operation. A replacement for the ineffective League of Nations, the organization was established on 24 October 1945 ... Wikipedia
Founded: October 24, 1945, Lake Success, NY
Headquarters: New York City, NY
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CherubRam

New member
Indoctrination of a person.
How very sad! Peoples minds and eyes are closed to the truth due to their indoctrination.

“We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it, according to his will.” Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI, (Confessio Romano-Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.

“We hold upon this earth the place of God almighty.” — Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter, June 20, 1894.

“The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ, Himself, hidden under the veil of human flesh.” — Catholic National, July 1895.

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” — Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous.”

“When confronted with heresy, she (Catholic Church) does not content herself with persuasion, arguments of an intellectual and moral order appear to her insufficient, and she has recourse to force, to corporal punishment, to torture.” — The Rector of the Catholic Institute of Paris, H.M.A. Baudrillart, quoted in The Catholic Church, The Renassance, and Protestantism,p 182-183.

“The church may by divine right confiscate the property of heretics, imprison their person, and condemn them to flames. In our age, the right to inflict the severest penalties, even death, belongs to the church. There is no graver offense than heresy, therefore it must be rooted out.” — Public Eccliastical, Vol. 2, p.142.

“The priest has the power of the keys, or the power of delivering sinners from hell, of making them worthy of paradise and of changing them from the slaves of Satan into the children of God. And God himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of His priests. … ‘The Sovereign Master of the universe only follows the servant by confirming in heaven all that the latter decides upon earth.” – “Dignity and Duties of the Priest,” St. Alphonsus de Liguori, pp. 27, 28. New York: Benziger Brothers, 1888.

Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) wrote: “We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.” (1 Book of Gregory 9 Decret. c.3)

Pope Nicholas said of himself: “I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do…wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God, what do you make of me but God? Again, if prelates of the Church be called of Constantine for gods, I then being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore, no marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the precepts of Christ.” (Decret. par. Distinct 96 ch. 7 edit. Lugo 1661)

The RC New York catechism states: “The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.”

The title “Lord God the Pope” – these words appeared in the Canon Law of Rome. “To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.” (The Gloss extravagances of Pope John XXII ***. Inter, tit XIV Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685)

“To pardon a single sin requires all the omnipotence of God…The Jews justly said: ‘Who can forgive sins but God alone?’ But what only GOD can do by His omnipotence, the PRIEST can ALSO do by saying ‘Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis’ [I absolve you from your sin].” — Alphonsus de Liguori, Dignity and Duties of the Priest, pages 34-35.

“Unlike the rest of the children of Adam, the soul of Mary was never subject to sin. “Faith of Our Fathers,” Cardinal Gibbons, pp. 203, 204. Baltimore: 1885.

The Sainted Doctor Alphonsus de Liguori says: “The merits of Jesus, shall be dispensed through the hands and by the intercession of Mary. “Glories of Mary,” p. 180, New Revised Edition. New York: P. J. Kenedy and Sons, 1888.

“God has chosen to bestow no grace upon us but by the hands of Mary.” – Id., p. 180.

“Whoever asks and wishes to obtain graces without the intercession of Mary, attempts to fly without wings.’ – Id., p. 189.

“All those who are saved, are saved solely by means of this divine mother; … the salvation of all depends upon preaching Mary” – Id., pp. 19, 20.
The Catholic church is a woman called "she, and mother."

Here is what most people do not know:
After the Catholics killed off the original Christians, new protestants arose from the Catholics themselves. Both, the new Protestants, and the Catholic hated the original Christians. The original Christians were hated so much by both groups that they were hunted down and killed. By the way, it was the Judaizing Christians who had the original letters of the Apostles. The Catholics burned the originals and introduced their own version of scriptures.
 

CherubRam

New member
Daniel 7:25
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. 538 AD - 1798 AD = 1260. And 1776 AD + 350 = 2126 AD.
 
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